[swbf2cheater]

Quote:

Well, what can I say?
 
I bought the DT880 32ohm to try and best my AD700. All I was looking for was a headphone with a notable improvement to SQ.
 
But unfortunately, even the awesome DT880 isn't really an improvement...
 
It sounds a bit better than my AD700, more so that the sound is fuller and has more weight, but that is likely due to the added bass. If I so happened to adjust the bass on my EQ in favor of the AD700, these two headphones can sound very similar.
 
Every time I hear a detail I've never heard with the DT880, I switch back to the AD700 and to my dismay, I hear the same detail. So as of right now, the DT880 really doesn't provide an upgrade to the AD700 for me. So why on earth am I keeping it? Well, that's the thing. I don't think I'm going to. I need to find something else but I don't know if I can get any better unamped...
 
So is there something out there that IS an nice upgrade, that is actually an improvement?
 
(Source iAudio 7/9 - Unamped)

 
The bold area is where I stopped reading.  No amount of bass eqing on a set of AD700s can match the beyer lineup.  The beyers are also more clear, unless MY ears and 99.99% of everyone elses are as well except yours lol.   Sorry, your ears are in fact broken :[  
 

 

[wankski]

 
Quote:

But, I was actually talking about the difference of an amp all together -- even when used with headphones that need it... (K701, DT880/600, HD650, etc)

 ok, well - that's where we differ... u can play 990-250s 'loud' on a laptop headphones out but it doesn't hit its max potential IMHO... no even close... it sounds flat and the bass a lot less controlled... 
 
but the overall 'character' of the phone is the same... if you don't like the sound signature unamped - you probably wont be super happy with it amped...

 

[bisayaboi]

@katun I find this thread interesting because I'm in love with my AD700+E7 combo but I'm already thinking about an upgrade in the future. Either the K701 or DT880-600 + $150-200 forward sounding desktop amp.
 
I will say you might want to try amping the DT880 at least once (not necessarily buy an amp) and see if there's improvement.
 
Quote:

Well I don't listen with list a of flaws in my head it just what I heard. And guess what? I sold my AD 700 because of their flaws and inferior sound compared to my other headphones.
And hearing those flaws have nothing to do with do other people notice or hear them too or would an average person hear them.
Plenty of people have said the same these have quite a bit of treble,lacking mids and no bass.
Others have also stated the odd amount of air they have.
 
I'm talking about a real audio headphone company.making headphones.
Audio Technica competes with AKG,Beyerdynamic,Grado,Sennheiser,Shure,Ultrasone
There is reason they cost $90 because if they cost $250-$300 they would be a rip off when compared to other headphones in and around that price range.
 
 
Bose isn't the same thing I don't think I even have to explain.
 
 

Price doesn't mean anything when it comes to audio gear.
 

 

[GeorgeGoodman]

Just don't judge anything before you actually hear it. To do so is kind of ridiculous. It is like saying a Ferrari is basically the same thing as a Chevy. "They both get me from point A to point B. They both have air conditioning. Ferrari is relying on their reputation and raving reviews from car mags." There are many aspects to sound, most of which cannot be measured exept by your own two ears. If you try a few different amps and sources and prefer the more inexpensive ones, that is fine. I doubt anybody will grudge you the Chevy. Look in the meets and get togethers section of the forum and find one near you and attend it. Just don't be narrow minded and say there is no difference if you haven't heard anything. I hope this helps.

 

[Katun]

Quote:

ok, well - that's where we differ... u can play 990-250s 'loud' on a laptop headphones out but it doesn't hit its max potential IMHO... no even close... it sounds flat and the bass a lot less controlled... 
 
but the overall 'character' of the phone is the same... if you don't like the sound signature unamped - you probably wont be super happy with it amped...

Well, I'm not saying there won't be an improvement with an amp, I'm just saying it "might" be hard to really justify it compared to the price. Relatively subtle?
 
Quote:

 
The bold area is where I stopped reading.  No amount of bass eqing on a set of AD700s can match the beyer lineup.  The beyers are also more clear, unless MY ears and 99.99% of everyone elses are as well except yours lol.   Sorry, your ears are in fact broken :[  
 

You've tried MachBass from Cowon players...right? And besides, I did not say it BESTS it, nor did I say its BETTER. All I said was they sound very similar -- and they do. As a matter of fact, all headphones sound similar, because you will still hear the music no matter what you listen to...
 
I wouldn't be so sure about 99.99% of "everyone else". You are basically saying everyone except me. And besides, you shouldn't speak others' voice...

 

[NapalmK]

Quote:

Well, I'm not saying there won't be an improvement with an amp, I'm just saying it "might" be hard to really justify it compared to the price. Relatively subtle?

Depends on some cans it is subtle but when you go back to unamped you don't know how you listened to it before. When I got my first pair of 'good' cans I went ampless for about a month. I was in a situation much like you. Heck I wasn't going to pay the same amount of money for an amp when I just dropped $250 on a pair of cans. When I got my first amp I was amazed by the difference. The bass was much tighter, the presentation was more involving, the treble fell into line a bit more, and the sound as a whole seemed more refined. 
 
Other cans I've questioned the results of amping but after listening amped for a while and then switching to unamped the differences are much easier to hear. It's up to you, your ears, and wallet to decide if amping is worth it or not but in my case it makes a significant enough difference to warrant the extra cost.

 

[Katun]

 
Quote:

Depends on some cans it is subtle but when you go back to unamped you don't know how you listened to it before. When I got my first pair of 'good' cans I went ampless for about a month. I was in a situation much like you. Heck I wasn't going to pay the same amount of money for an amp when I just dropped $250 on a pair of cans. When I got my first amp I was amazed by the difference. The bass was much tighter, the presentation was more involving, the treble fell into line a bit more, and the sound as a whole seemed more refined. 
 
Other cans I've questioned the results of amping but after listening amped for a while and then switching to unamped the differences are much easier to hear. It's up to you, your ears, and wallet to decide if amping is worth it or not but in my case it makes a significant enough difference to warrant the extra cost.

Thank you for your advice. This is probably one of the most helpful posts in this thread so far.
 
I may get an amp one day, just to experiment. I'll let my ears be the judge on that day, whenever it may be.

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

Let's not talk about whether something is "colored" or "neutral", these are very debatable preferences; not everyone likes neutral and not everyone likes things colored.  Things such as resolution (somewhat connected to transparency) , detail retrieval (such as micro-detail, timbre,decay) and soundstage depth and width are examples of areas that are improved in upper echelon headphones compared to cheaper ones of the same brand and are not traits shown on a frequency response graph. Would you take a headphone with noticeably less resolution, less detail and smaller soundstage over another one that is superior in all those areas assuming the sound signature is intact in both headphones?
 

If such things such as resolution and "detail retrieval" are not measurable by such things as frequency response graphs / impulse / decay etc, then how would you suggest we measure them to verify such claims?  Where did this knowledge of yours come about?
 
Things such as "detail" and "resolution" aren't abstract values that somehow get carried across an electrical signal without us knowing it.  They have defined values like anything else in the physical world. 

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

 
The bold area is where I stopped reading.  No amount of bass eqing on a set of AD700s can match the beyer lineup.  The beyers are also more clear, unless MY ears and 99.99% of everyone elses are as well except yours lol.   Sorry, your ears are in fact broken :[  
 

Nope...sorry I disagree with you.  In fact one very popular french study published in the AES (that's the audio engineer society) journal demonstated that capable headphones can sound like other headphones when properly EQed. 
 
The things that matter:
 
Frequency Response
Distortion (various types of measurements)
Time based errors
Noise and Dynamic Range
Acoustics
 
That's everything that encompasses sound.  It's just physics, not mythology.

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

 

Thank you for your advice. This is probably one of the most helpful posts in this thread so far.
 
I may get an amp one day, just to experiment. I'll let my ears be the judge on that day, whenever it may be.

Sure Katun, give an amp a try.  Just be sure not to spend more than a few hundred at most.  (Like less than $150 will do easy).
 
Or give RMAA a go to measure your SNR, THD, FR curve etc.  If it all passes to your satisfaction that forget about it. 

 

[blinkstar]

For what it's worth, I decided to try plugging my old pair of Senn HD 280 pros into an even older Denon HT receiver/amp. I didn't perform a DBT or anything, but still ... I noticed an immediate improvement in the sound. It wasn't subtle at all: big enough difference to make me believe that amped versus unamped can make a real improvement. The same amp seems to do little for my K702s, however, and I'm not ready to go spend hundreds more on a better amp to find out if that will make a difference ...
 
Katun--you might want to try picking up a full sized HT receiver/amp combo to see if you notice any improvement with your cans ... you could either buy one cheap off craigslist or buy a better one from one of the big electronics stores just to try it out, then you could return it after you've done some tests ... Better than just taking mine or anyone's opinion on the matter.

 

[Eric_C]

Quote:

 
The things that matter:
 
Frequency Response
Distortion (various types of measurements)
Time based errors
Noise and Dynamic Range
Acoustics
 

Would you say that, all these values being equal (or if different, negligibly so), consumers are paying for "pre-EQ'd" differences in sound quality when they purchase different models of headphones? In addition to marketing costs and mark-up, of course.

 

[dongringo]

 
Quote:

Quote:
Depends on some cans it is subtle but when you go back to unamped you don't know how you listened to it before. When I got my first pair of 'good' cans I went ampless for about a month. I was in a situation much like you. Heck I wasn't going to pay the same amount of money for an amp when I just dropped $250 on a pair of cans. When I got my first amp I was amazed by the difference. The bass was much tighter, the presentation was more involving, the treble fell into line a bit more, and the sound as a whole seemed more refined. 
 
Other cans I've questioned the results of amping but after listening amped for a while and then switching to unamped the differences are much easier to hear. It's up to you, your ears, and wallet to decide if amping is worth it or not but in my case it makes a significant enough difference to warrant the extra cost.

This is also my experience. To my ears all my phones (RS1i 32ohm, D5000 32ohm, and DT880 600ohm) benefit greatly from amping, especially the DT880, which is unlistenable unamped imo. I started off with the RS1i and D5000 unamped, but soon puchased an ibasso D4. The difference in clarity, bass response, etc. was night and day. Then I went for the DT880/600ohm due to all the reviews about their soundstage in particular, but the D4 didn't power them well at all. So I then decided to take another leap and purchased a MAD Ear+ HD. This made the DT880 especially sound unbelievable and also greatly improved the RS1i by lessening the fatigue caused by the bright D4 paired with already bright Grados. The D5000 was less affected, but still noticeable. Then I heard some dacs at a head-fi meet and realized my little D4 dac, while great for portable at an affordable price, was insufficient. So, wallet seriously feeling sorry for itself, I took one more small leap and got a V-Dac. Once again the upgrade made a huge improvement, much bigger than expected. Nobody can say I'm just crazy. My ears aren't broken. Only my wallet its.
 
Try to go to a head-fi meet or find a place to hear the difference yourself. Hope this helps you. It sounds like you are seriously searching for better sound. It's out there. It just isn't cheap.

 

[NapalmK]

Quote:

Would you say that, all these values being equal (or if different, negligibly so), consumers are paying for "pre-EQ'd" differences in sound quality when they purchase different models of headphones? In addition to marketing costs and mark-up, of course

I'm not really big on eq'ing but if I understand correctly, It also matters what the drivers are technically capable of. If you have a slow driver you won't be able to eq that out and it will not be able to reach the same level of quality as better cans. Also some drivers handle eq'ing better than others as some will distort if you add more bass or sound unnatural no matter how much tweaking you do. As long as the driver is capable then you should be able to achieve the desired sound though it is easier to tone down a frequency than to add. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this I'm a little out of my element.

 

[Mysteek]

Just wanted to chime in, especially since I had taken the time to read the entire thread:
 
When I first got my DT880's 250ohm, I didn't like the sound, so I let it burn in for 50+ hours.  I listened again and thought the sound had improved slightly, but not enough for me to justify spending so much on it.  I thought that either I just received a defective pair of headphones or that this is what ''neutrality/flatness'' is supposed to sound like.
 
I bought my first amp shortly after--the Little Dot Micro, and there was absolutely NO improvement.
 
I still have it to this day, what a terrible buy--I then bought another amp from here: the Xenos X1HA-EPC or something like that.  I noticed a tiny improvement to the sound.  At this time I was using my iPod video 30gb line out to the amp.
 
I then decided on something really high up the hiearchy, the Headstage Lyrix Pro ($260 at the time?).  Reviews have said that it was at the level of the RSA Hornet.  The improvement blew me right out of the water.  It was a night and day difference and to this day I still use this dac/amp.  I've heard the AD700's and I felt that the bass was really lacking, I agree with you that the DT880 has a more full sound, and I like this sound a lot more than the AD700's amped, but unamped I would actually stick to the AD700's.
 
Ultimately you should listen to your ears.  If I were you I would either try an amp and if you like it, stay with the amp and every future headphone purchase can benefit, or you can try out the AD900's.  I know I always wanted to hear them =]
 
Edit:  You've heard the A700's too?  I really loved the sound of them more than the AD700's, but after a few hours the bass just got overwhelming.  I wish there was less bass because they are definitely so much more comfortable than the DT880's.  >_>