[Katun]

Quote:

Anyways the AD 700 has so many flaws in its sound signature.
DT 880 is a much better sounding headphone.
It also needs 75 hours at the least of burn in.
 

So many flaws? Really? Well to me, I'm not finding any of these flaws you are talking about. In fact, it is one of the best headphone I've heard to date.
 
I wouldn't say the DT880 is much better. More like, the DT880 is a little better. But I am referring to the 32ohm version unamped through my MP3.
 
So far, I've got a little over 50 hours on it. That should be plenty for now, as it won't turn it into a mind boggling headphone after I hit the 75 hour mark.

 

[Catharsis]

 
Quote:

So many flaws? Really? Well to me, I'm not finding any of these flaws you are talking about. In fact, it is one of the best headphone I've heard to date.
 
I wouldn't say the DT880 is much better. More like, the DT880 is a little better. But I am referring to the 32ohm version unamped through my MP3.
 
So far, I've got a little over 50 hours on it. That should be plenty for now, as it won't turn it into a mind boggling headphone after I hit the 75 hour mark.

Allow me to toss one in.
 
The 250ohm DT880 with an amp is still only a little better than an unamped AD700.

 

[mibutenma]

Well the flaws of AD 700.
-Too much treble.
-Doesn't have the mids quality of DT 880 or other headphones.
-No bass I'm talking it has no vibe/thump  not ohh I can hear the bass guitar being played.Not that the DT 880 doesn't have its own bass flaws.
-A extreme emphasis on cymbals making them sound zzzz like fajitas at a restaurant or just very hot cooking oil in a pan at times.
-The so called soundstage. Tons of air some stuff is very distant other times just huge empty space of air very weird sounding.
-Doesn't have the placement of instrument quality of the DT 880 and other headphones.
 
The AD 700 does sound good in the basic sense but there is a reason it cost $90.
And a little bit better might not be worth it to you.
But when those little bit betters are not flaws its just a not a little bit better for me.

 

[Katun]

Quote:

Well the flaws of AD 700.
-Too much treble.
-Doesn't have the mids quality of DT 880 or other headphones.
-No bass I'm talking it has no vibe/thump  not ohh I can hear the bass guitar being played.Not that the DT 880 doesn't have its own bass flaws.
-A extreme emphasis on cymbals making them sound zzzz like fajitas at a restaurant or just very hot cooking oil in a pan at times.
-The so called soundstage. Tons of air some stuff is very distant other times just huge empty space of air very weird sounding.
-Doesn't have the placement of instrument quality of the DT 880 and other headphones.

 
That's a nice little list you have there, but when I listen to the AD700, I don't have a list of "flaws" that shoot through my head. The "normal" listener won't notice any of those, and I doubt the user could identify them as they heard them. I really question if "qualified users" can actually hear what they think they can hear. I'm not calling myself "inexperienced" by any means, I'm just human enough to admit I don't have super hearing...
 
Quote:

The AD 700 does sound good in the basic sense but there is a reason it cost $90.

What on earth is that supposed to mean? I wouldn't even think about starting to bring in prices in context to the headphones' performance.
 
Oh wait a second, there is also a reason Bose headphones are $300... because that's just how good they really are...
 

 

[TobaccoRoad]

According to Headroom there's nothing wrong with using it without the amp
 
"This very efficient 32-Ohm low-impedance edition is better suited for use without a headphone amp and from low-power mobile/portable audio sources like iPods and laptop computers."

 

[kite7]

 
Quote:

 
That's a nice little list you have there, but when I listen to the AD700, I don't have a list of "flaws" that shoot through my head. The "normal" listener won't notice any of those, and I doubt the user could identify them as they heard them. I really question if "qualified users" can actually hear what they think they can hear. I'm not calling myself "inexperienced" by any means, I'm just human enough to admit I don't have super hearing...
 

Everyone here doesn't have super hearing, we aren't all bats or golden ears. I'm sure people who say the AD700 is weak in areas is because they have heard better headphones are not being handicapped and driven by a proper amplifier. I'm not going to list all the things I dislike about the AD700 because that's not the point. Sure enough, it seems to me like you like the ATH house sound and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Logically, it seems appropriate if you were to look to upgrade to higher end ATH?
 
I think what mibutenma meant to say about the price is that, if you take a higher end headphone higher up in price with the same brand it should be "better".

 

[mibutenma]

Well I don't listen with list a of flaws in my head it just what I heard. And guess what? I sold my AD 700 because of their flaws and inferior sound compared to my other headphones.
And hearing those flaws have nothing to do with do other people notice or hear them too or would an average person hear them.
Plenty of people have said the same these have quite a bit of treble,lacking mids and no bass.
Others have also stated the odd amount of air they have.
 
I'm talking about a real audio headphone company.making headphones.
Audio Technica competes with AKG,Beyerdynamic,Grado,Sennheiser,Shure,Ultrasone
There is reason they cost $90 because if they cost $250-$300 they would be a rip off when compared to other headphones in and around that price range.
 
 
Bose isn't the same thing I don't think I even have to explain.
 
 

 

[Katun]

Quote:

Everyone here doesn't have super hearing, we aren't all bats or golden ears. I'm sure people who say the AD700 is weak in areas is because they have heard better headphones are not being handicapped and driven by a proper amplifier. I'm not going to list all the things I dislike about the AD700 because that's not the point. Sure enough, it seems to me like you like the ATH house sound and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Logically, it seems appropriate if you were to look to upgrade to higher end ATH?
 
I think what mibutenma meant to say about the price is that, if you take a higher end headphone higher up in price with the same brand it should be "better".

Agreed. But yes, it does seem logical to move up the AT line -- yet once again, will the improvements be nearly impossible to notice without careful scrutiny?
 
Ah, with the same brand. That's quite surprising, because you explained what he was trying to say in a better way then he did himself. (Just check is post below)
 
Quote:

Well I don't listen with list a of flaws in my head it just what I heard. And guess what? I sold my AD 700 because of their flaws and inferior sound compared to my other headphones.
And hearing those flaws have nothing to do with anything I heard them that's all there is to say.
Plenty of people have said the same these have quite a bit of treble and no bass.

 
Inferior sound compared to your other headphones? What other ones -- your DT880? Hey buddy, if you haven't noticed, I have that headphone too. Except, I have the advantage of direct back and forth comparison...
 
Everyone can say anything they want, but that doesn't constitute it's validity. It's called conformity. Of course, this is Head-Fi, where users share their "preferences" and "opinions".
 
Quote:

 
I'm talking about a real audio headphone company.making headphones.
Audio Technica competes with AKG,Beyerdynamic,Grado,Sennheiser,Shure,Ultrasone
There is reason they cost $90 because if they cost $250-$300 they would be a rip off when compared to other headphones in and around that price range.

 
I'm not saying they should cost $250-$300, so don't say they would be a rip off at 3 times the price, because that is really quite illogical. I'm saying they are quite the deal at the price they are currently at -- in fact, they are almost too cheap. And I would be more than willing to buy them again even if I had to pay a higher price -- say, $150. And no, you cannot say the "reason" they cost $90, because you-do-not-know what the reason for that price is. And if you think you do, I would love to hear it...
 
And by the way, I think they compete perfectly fine with $250-$300 headphones -- per say, the K701 and DT880. And besides, going into that price range would then introduce the AD700's bigger brother -- the AD900. So, the AD700 shouldn't be competing with those headphones in the first place if you are strictly going off price...

 

[wankski]

Quote:

My point being, that is exactly why I haven't moved to amp territory yet -- because it might just all be the same. I'm probably better off finding functionality in a headphone (comfort, sound signature, size, durability) rather than seeking for the ultimate improvements in SQ -- when in fact, they may be very minimal -- even with an amp...
 
This is why I've been an "unamped" user for all this time...

i would say this is correct and what I was trying to say in my first post. If you have headphones that don't require it, u don't need an amp...   simples...its saves a lot of trouble and $$$
 
just for the record, my second post was in relation to another user, and apart from that, many other users which as I said, try to run beyer 600ohm cans and FOTM 701s from a cmoy or soundcard

 

 

[c61746961]

Quote:

I don't mean to be an ass to all the amp thumpers here, but any audio professional will tell you that the purpose of an amp is to increase volume without distrotion or clipping.  Granted, you can purchase amps that colour the sound, but most pro amps don't - they just make things louder.  If that is your goal, than any decent source should provide adequate volume levels for a 32ohm DT880 - that's it, and that's all. 

 
Don't forget to mention that many sources suffer from a significant roll-off in both ends of the audible spectrum with small-ish loads, and crosstalk is considerably increased. An amp would definitely help in such cases.
 

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

I think what mibutenma meant to say about the price is that, if you take a higher end headphone higher up in price with the same brand it should be "better".

The working assumption is that higher priced headphones within the same brand are "better", but I would have to disagree if we are to use my definition of "better".  To me, "better" represents a headphone that is more neutral / uncoloured / transparent.  This being the case, let us examine some interesting observations:
 
In the case of neutrality (based on objective measurements / not "my ears hear this")
 
MDR-V6 > MDR-SA5000
AD700 > W5000
SRH440 > SRH840
 
In this case, the former are significantly less expensive (sometimes hundred$ less), and reasonably more neutral. 
 
Same thing applies to DACS / sources, and amps.
 
and cables......

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

 
Don't forget to mention that many sources suffer from a significant roll-off in both ends of the audible spectrum with small-ish loads, and crosstalk is considerably increased. An amp would definitely help in such cases.
 

I've seen the clip+ run loads higher than 32ohms with zero roll-off in both extreme ends.  Then there's the Head-direct 801 which costs hundreds of dollars and does it deliberately......

 

[Katun]

Quote:

i would say this is correct and what I was trying to say in my first post. If you have headphones that don't require it, u don't need an amp...   simples...its saves a lot of trouble and $$$

But, I was actually talking about the difference of an amp all together -- even when used with headphones that need it... (K701, DT880/600, HD650, etc)

 

[kite7]

Let's not talk about whether something is "colored" or "neutral", these are very debatable preferences; not everyone likes neutral and not everyone likes things colored.  Things such as resolution (somewhat connected to transparency) , detail retrieval (such as micro-detail, timbre,decay) and soundstage depth and width are examples of areas that are improved in upper echelon headphones compared to cheaper ones of the same brand and are not traits shown on a frequency response graph. Would you take a headphone with noticeably less resolution, less detail and smaller soundstage over another one that is superior in all those areas assuming the sound signature is intact in both headphones?
 
Quote:

The working assumption is that higher priced headphones within the same brand are "better", but I would have to disagree if we are to use my definition of "better".  To me, "better" represents a headphone that is more neutral / uncoloured / transparent.  This being the case, let us examine some interesting observations:  
In the case of neutrality (based on objective measurements / not "my ears hear this")
 
MDR-V6 > MDR-SA5000
AD700 > W5000
SRH440 > SRH840
 
In this case, the former are significantly less expensive (sometimes hundred$ less), and reasonably more neutral. 
 
Same thing applies to DACS / sources, and amps.
 
and cables......

 

[c61746961]

Quote:

I've seen the clip+ run loads higher than 32ohms with zero roll-off in both extreme ends.  Then there's the Head-direct 801 which costs hundreds of dollars and does it deliberately......

 
So what?. It is not the case with many Cowon players, for instance. Hiss can be reduced, too, which is important with sensitive IEMs. The need of an amp may be exaggerated around here, but I wouldn't dare to say it is serves little purpose in general.