[Katun]

Quote:

 
Are the minor differences between the DT880/32 and DT880/600 worth hundreds of dollars to you?  If I were you I would buy the DT880/32 and if you do not like it you can return it to Amazon for a couple of bucks or HeadRoom for free.

That's what I was hoping when I bought the DT880 32ohm for my MP3.
 
I really don't think the difference would be that great though. People tend to over exaggerate what and what they cannot hear.
 
And yes, if you don't like it, you get a refund and try another headphone.

 

[wankski]

 
Quote:

I do know they require a good amp... I meant in the next months I will buy both or either and the other maybe a year off.
I'm puzzled though, I read that the STX supports 600Ohm output via a three way setting in the configuration panel. Will it not be sufficient?
 
Wankski, since you seem to have tried lots of stuff, want would in your opinion be :
a) The cheapest portable amp that would make the DT880/600Ohm sound "good".
b) and I don'r really want to go there but... the most comparable HPs to the DT800/600Ohm that do NOT require an amp?
 

hey man,
 
yes they definatly require an amp... wrt the stx card, they can write on the card what they wish, its marketing.. much like even crappy speaker manufacturers quote an operating range from 5-55khz BS...
 
the thing as you'll know after doing a search that 600ohm amps need, its VOLTAGE. an internal soundcard has max, what? 5v? whats more, whats matters is what the amp section can put out in Vrms terms which is typically a much smaller number.... My m3 for example has 24v coming in, but it capable of a steady 4.5Vrms or so... this is important due to the relationship of:
 
P = V^2/R   - this is why voltage is critcal with high ohm phones... 600 is a far bigger than 32 or even 70ohms obviously so u need much more voltage to drive them... this typically means mains powered desktop amps... to give you an idea... on 600ohm phones the power that my amp can put out is only 32mW or so... max...  dropping down to the 250ohm variants of the SAME phone u get 80mW - don't forget this is all off a 24v mains powered source... but note: 250s also definately require good amping, its just that 600s are even more dependant on good voltage supply as well which makes things even harder....
 
your question a) is what scares me... cheapest portable amp that would 'properly' drive 600s... I haven't heard of one... also the word 'cheap'.. they may be amps that have enough voltage to drive the 600s but they may not sound good.... remember having an amp introduces something in the chain that can color the sound - introduce artifacts or just plain sound bad... hence u need voltage and decent quality. personally speaking my m3 amp is the only thing that blew me away while listening on my 990s and unless u build one, they will set u back at least $350USD to acquire one built ex shipping AFAIK... equivalent commercial amps will run you probably 500USD plus... That would be about the price range on up where i expect commercial units that would do high end 600ohm phones justice.
 
that brings me to my next question? as far as i can tell u haven't sampled the 880s? this so? In which case what brings you to the conclusion you want them? Seriously, everyone's taste is different. I suggest you figure out how u can try out some phones and at least get some sort of idea of what u like and dislike...
 
That said, some off the shelf phones that are well regarded that require no extra amping at all include allesandro ms1is or their grado equivalents ( i personally did not like their sig, and i sold my ms1s...) but more relevant IMHO are something like Audio Technica AD 700 and AD900s... very good phones that will sound good off even an iPod... you may want to check out sennheiser, i personally rate the AD900s higher but u should be able to sample sennheiser at any decent hifi store or even record/cd shop.... models that do not require amping include the HD555 and HD595s... another lead may be Shure's line of head phones like the 440s or 840s.... they are closed which may be something u'll like since u're into 'portable' and probably want to take ur phones with you and have a degree of isolation... if so, u may want to look at beyer's own DT250s... damn good closed phone that comes in a 80ohm variant which will be far easier to drive than 600s... check out a lot of radio station's headphone monitors.... a lot of them at dt250s for a reason...
 
personally, iffin i was u i'd try to sample some phones and get some idea of what u want, and then make a purchase decision... but given your indicated preference to skimp on a decent desktop amp to power them, i'd avoid the 600s and get just about anything else... or even better something that doesn't require an amp...
 
I really hope that helps and doesn't come off as condescending or anything...
 
I just want to add that what kind of phones u like will depend on what kind of music u listen to.... on some music my 990s absolutely cain with the bass and its fun... but on some music they do not sound good (see the trademark beyer 990 sibilance issue) for some tracks i'd go for something else.... see people's opinions on another hard to drive phone, the akg 701. some people may listen to classical music and may love them, other wonder what the big deal is when they listen to modern music or maybe even techno and think the phones to be sterile, devoid of bass and no fun... opnions vary... there is, by and large, no pie in the sky 'high end' phone that is categorically the 'best'. since u wanna hold on to your next purchase for a while, make sure u like em after making an informed choice...

 

[Zombie_X]

I argued this a while back with someone and I said the Xonar cards are only good for amping low impedance headphones with a high efficiency. Even then the card does not even output that much current for low impedance headphones. The Xonar card do not put out enough power for anything over 32Ohms at all. My original bout was telling a few people that this card could not even power a K701, and a few people argued that it gets them loud. I countered and said they may get loud but are lacking both the current and the voltage required to function properly.
 
Sure they can get loud, like lets say the HD600 can get up to 60-70 decibels on this card, but it's really lacking a high voltage swing. This amp will got those 32Ohm DT880's loud for sure, but is not amping them properly. Same follows for the 600Ohm DT flavors and some peole say this card can drive them fine. I gave up the spat since it was looking like I would not win, even though I was right.
 
On a side note the 600Ohm DT flavors, excluding the T1, require the same power as the 250Ohm versions.
 
Quote:

 
hey man,
 
yes they definatly require an amp... wrt the stx card, they can write on the card what they wish, its marketing.. much like even crappy speaker manufacturers quote an operating range from 5-55khz BS...
 
the thing as you'll know after doing a search that 600ohm amps need, its VOLTAGE. an internal soundcard has max, what? 5v? whats more, whats matters is what the amp section can put out in Vrms terms which is typically a much smaller number.... My m3 for example has 24v coming in, but it capable of a steady 4.5Vrms or so... this is important due to the relationship of:
 
P = V^2/R   - this is why voltage is critcal with high ohm phones... 600 is a far bigger than 32 or even 70ohms obviously so u need much more voltage to drive them... this typically means mains powered desktop amps... to give you an idea... on 600ohm phones the power that my amp can put out is only 32mW or so... max...  dropping down to the 250ohm variants of the SAME phone u get 80mW - don't forget this is all off a 24v mains powered source... but note: 250s also definately require good amping, its just that 600s are even more dependant on good voltage supply as well which makes things even harder....
 
your question a) is what scares me... cheapest portable amp that would 'properly' drive 600s... I haven't heard of one... also the word 'cheap'.. they may be amps that have enough voltage to drive the 600s but they may not sound good.... remember having an amp introduces something in the chain that can color the sound - introduce artifacts or just plain sound bad... hence u need voltage and decent quality. personally speaking my m3 amp is the only thing that blew me away while listening on my 990s and unless u build one, they will set u back at least $350USD to acquire one built ex shipping AFAIK... equivalent commercial amps will run you probably 500USD plus... That would be about the price range on up where i expect commercial units that would do high end 600ohm phones justice.
 
that brings me to my next question? as far as i can tell u haven't sampled the 880s? this so? In which case what brings you to the conclusion you want them? Seriously, everyone's taste is different. I suggest you figure out how u can try out some phones and at least get some sort of idea of what u like and dislike...
 
That said, some off the shelf phones that are well regarded that require no extra amping at all include allesandro ms1is or their grado equivalents ( i personally did not like their sig, and i sold my ms1s...) but more relevant IMHO are something like Audio Technica AD 700 and AD900s... very good phones that will sound good off even an iPod... you may want to check out sennheiser, i personally rate the AD900s higher but u should be able to sample sennheiser at any decent hifi store or even record/cd shop.... models that do not require amping include the HD555 and HD595s... another lead may be Shure's line of head phones like the 440s or 840s.... they are closed which may be something u'll like since u're into 'portable' and probably want to take ur phones with you and have a degree of isolation... if so, u may want to look at beyer's own DT250s... damn good closed phone that comes in a 80ohm variant which will be far easier to drive than 600s... check out a lot of radio station's headphone monitors.... a lot of them at dt250s for a reason...
 
personally, iffin i was u i'd try to sample some phones and get some idea of what u want, and then make a purchase decision... but given your indicated preference to skimp on a decent desktop amp to power them, i'd avoid the 600s and get just about anything else... or even better something that doesn't require an amp...
 
I really hope that helps and doesn't come off as condescending or anything...
 

 

[wankski]

 
Quote:

I argued this a while back with someone and I said the Xonar cards are only good for amping low impedance headphones with a high efficiency. Even then the card does not even output that much current for low impedance headphones. The Xonar card do not put out enough power for anything over 32Ohms at all. My original bout was telling a few people that this card could not even power a K701, and a few people argued that it gets them loud. I countered and said they may get loud but are lacking both the current and the voltage required to function properly.
 
Sure they can get loud, like lets say the HD600 can get up to 60-70 decibels on this card, but it's really lacking a high voltage swing. This amp will got those 32Ohm DT880's loud for sure, but is not amping them properly. Same follows for the 600Ohm DT flavors and some peole say this card can drive them fine. I gave up the spat since it was looking like I would not win, even though I was right.
 
On a side note the 600Ohm DT flavors, excluding the T1, require the same power as the 250Ohm versions.
 

this is correct. And yes, they will require the same power, but as i described in the P=V^2/R relationship, u will require more Voltage to the 600s to make the same power in mW as the 250s versions. Both require amping, but the 600s will need more voltage.
 
And yes, a soundcard's amp section will be a poor subsitute for a proper headphone source... plus i don't like how it's internal... my laptop's s/c is pretty passable but emits a hum when any process is started on my computer, even flicking thru web page tabs.... the off board uDAC is great for just that reason - it does a fair job of killing the buzz and background noise... but that again is a far cry from soemthing like a gamma2 DAC... etc
 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Can someone link me to the thread comparing all DT770/880/990 models? I can't find it.
 
I owned the DT880 32, and absolutely loved almost everything about them. I pretty much only got rid of them because I wanted the K701 and did a trade. I still miss my DT880 32ohm.
 
I was wondering how the DT770 32 stacks up to the other versions, and really wanna read that thread.

 

[Zombie_X]

Hi I actually made a rather huge thread on their sonic differences here [INFORMATION] Sonic Differences Between DT770-DT990
 
Quote:

Can someone link me to the thread comparing all DT770/880/990 models? I can't find it.
 
I owned the DT880 32, and absolutely loved almost everything about them. I pretty much only got rid of them because I wanted the K701 and did a trade. I still miss my DT880 32ohm.
 
I was wondering how the DT770 32 stacks up to the other versions, and really wanna read that thread.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

That's the thread I was looking for. MANY thanks. I'm more interested in the 32 ohm versions because I use my headphones mainly for gaming and the Mixamp needs to drive them decently, the same way the DT880 32 was actually well driven for gaming off the mixamp.

 

[tim3320070]

To give people some perspective, I have the DT770-600 and the volume on my very powerful Phoenix amp is about 30/99 for full volume listening while my Grados are at about 12/99 and my Klipsch X10 IEM's are at about 8/99 (that's single ended too). All same volume.

 

[3602]

I own the 32 ohm version, and with a vintage amp (see signature), it's epic bliss. If you want the 250 or 600 ohm version, the first thing that comes to mind is "beyerdynamic A1", but that thing has a good price tag attached to it. So maybe OTL tubes such as the Woo2 or the Schiit Valhalla?

 

[TheDead]

Big thanks wankski and Xombie_X for clearing some of the smoke...
 
wankski you suggested to try other HP's, I already did. Quoting myself from original post :

Q2.

Audio shops where I can try HP are quite limited, but still I was able to test drive these HPs in a HeadFi-Noob fashion: Senn's PX100 (bloomy?), HD280 (could be HD228's... too much bass, mids details lost), HD555 (nice but felt confined(?)), HD595 (airier and mode detailed but not worth the extra cash over 555's), HD650 (liked the best but too expensive), HD800 (didn't like, felt too flat/tin), Grado's S60 (nice and clear but tried with acoustics only, read everywhere about the no-bass), S80 (liked the S60's better, don't know exactly why), S225 (liked but only the demo left and priced too high, also tested with acoustics only, bass-less(?)). As you can see, I can't try the Beyers anywhere, so do they sound anything like one of the headphones I tried, especially the HD650, graph seems to say yes?

 
 
As you can see, the headphones I liked the most were the Sennheisers HD650, witch are more expensive than the DT880's and I'm pretty sure they also require an amp... but I could be wrong I didn't look around. I stayed away from the Grado's since I would like SOME bass. I'm not a bass-head, but anemic bass is another story. That is the reason I stayed aways from the AD700 (didn't read about the ad900 thought).
 
I have discovered an affordable tube amp also, which seems to go well with the Beyer's. The Little Dot MKIII. What do you guys think?
 

 

[Zombie_X]

I think the Grado's have great bass and I don't think it's anemic. It's tight bass that's punchy when needed.
 
Oh and about the HD650's being amps, I found the DT880 needed an amp more than those. The HD650 aren't as hard to power since they have a higher sensitivity.
 
Quote:

 
As you can see, the headphones I liked the most were the Sennheisers HD650, witch are more expensive than the DT880's and I'm pretty sure they also require an amp... but I could be wrong I didn't look around. I stayed away from the Grado's since I would like SOME bass. I'm not a bass-head, but anemic bass is another story. That is the reason I stayed aways from the AD700 (didn't read about the ad900 thought).
 
I have discovered an affordable tube amp also, which seems to go well with the Beyer's. The Little Dot MKIII. What do you guys think?
 

 

[wankski]

ah my bad for missing that... i did read your OP but that was days ago now...
 
reading the specs on the littledot mk3 it looks like it will power the 600s if those specs are right eg (10Vrms) - whether or not its a high quality amp and u like their sound is anothing thing but looks like it should work...
 
HTH

 

[TheDead]

Hey Zombie_X:
I read that you have the PHENIX G3, do you know how it compares to the Little Dot MKIII?
Or should I just go with a Head-Direct EF2 (amp + dac)
 
Sources being : Audigy2ZS or laptop (music), PS3 (movies/games) , XBox360 (games) , Zen Micro (music).
 
Bonus noob question : I have to do research but the USB in DAC in is not like an external sound card seen in Windows right?

 

[gsilver]

Does anyone have any info about which version would be best with the M-Stage?

 

[dongringo]

The 600ohm DT880 sound really nice through a mk3. My brother used to have one. It gives off a very airy tube sound, widens the soundstage, etc. Kind of a soft sound though, not exactly neutral, but nice nonetheless.
 
Quote:

ah my bad for missing that... i did read your OP but that was days ago now...
 
reading the specs on the littledot mk3 it looks like it will power the 600s if those specs are right eg (10Vrms) - whether or not its a high quality amp and u like their sound is anothing thing but looks like it should work...
 
HTH