[Terminus Est 23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think that's an over-simplified explanation. Technically, are all not looking for what is "sending the signal accurately", analog and digital? Digital signals are susceptible to noise, that noise will be introduced into the next circuit and will affect performance and sound. It will still transmit the data "accurately" as it it will all get there, just with some extra interference. For a cable to "work" then it should sending the signal 100% accurately and be 100% noise resistant; oh and probably as short as possible to minimize reclocking errors. Nothing is ever as simple as "works or doesn't". If that were the case, we wouldn't have an entire forum of people looking for what sounds the best, it would either "work or not".

Digital signals are susceptible to noise, yes . . . but that "noise" is not an audible product.. The rising or falling square may not be absolutely perfectly shaped but as long as it is accurate enough to relay 1 or 0, the result after conversion will be identical to one that is a perfect square. The cable either sends the correct amounts of 1's and 0's or it doesn't. Whether they are "pure" is irrelevant to what is converting them.

 

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif I believe in God, the rest have to be proved...for now BJC and Quail, do it for me...

Has God proved himself to you, Sov?

This I'd like to hear.

 

[Eric M]

I can hear a different over the cheap, oem crap, so it never hurts to step up to reasonable priced upgrade, but that ultra expensive stuff is just stupid. As long as you get away from the cheap junk, you'll be set.

 

[FallenAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terminus Est 23 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Digital signals are susceptible to noise, yes . . . but that "noise" is not an audible product.. The rising or falling square may not be absolutely perfectly shaped but as long as it is accurate enough to relay 1 or 0, the result after conversion will be identical to one that is a perfect square. The cable either sends the correct amounts of 1's and 0's or it doesn't. Whether they are "pure" is irrelevant to what is converting them.

I'm not arguing that the signal will be unaltered, as I have just wrote, it will get there. Unfortunately, if there is noise in the signal, it will be pass down to the digital receiver (I'm assuming this is the type of signal we're talking about). How well the receiver handles jitter and interference and now good the power supply to reject high frequency noise will determine how much of it will be heard, but it will be present.

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yotacowboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif So which pricey power cords have you auditioned and with what equipment?

Here is what I have played with over the years...

Straight Wire "Blue Thunder" & "Green Lightning" models
PS Audio "Power Punch" & "Mini Lab"
Shunyata Venom (borrowed from a friend)
MIT Shotgun (330?) (borrowed from a friend)
Audio Power P313 (...just on sources and preamps)
Iron Lung Jellyfish (...just on sources and preamps)
Parasound 12 guage
Factory McIntosh 14 gauge
Factory Samsung Computer monitor 14 guage

On normal 15A services and dedicated 20A services...
Amps plugged into wall vs. PS Audio Ultimate Outlet
Sources plugged into wall, PS Audio Ultimate Outlet, Audio Power Power Pack II & Furman AC-215.

Sources included Rotel RA(?) 971, Pioneer Elite DV-47A, Arcam FMJ CD23 & BAT VK-D5SE

Preamps: Rotel 1070 and BAT VK-20

Amps/Integrateds: Rotel 80wpc, Rotel 100 wpc, Rotel 1090, McIntosh MA6900 & McIntosh MC501 monoblocks

I recently purchased a Furman IT Reference 15i and have yet to play with cords and direct to outlet vs. thru Furman.

What I have found is there is no difference "I" can detect in power cords save for one instance with the Rotel 1090.
The Rotel 1090 was a monster with a torroidal transformer the size of a small pumpkin. I was running my system off a dedicated 20A service...even had the $50 PS Audio grade outlet!

Well, if I remember correctly the Rotel came packaged with a 14 guage power cord which seemed to do the job quite will. The amp never hiccupped once and drove my 803's to a measured 102 db at my couch.
I found a sale on a PS Audio Mini Lab cable which was equivalent to 10 guage wire and plugged it in to the amp.
The first time I turned on the amp the 20A breaker tripped.
Those torroidal transformers really suck the current on start-up (in-rush current) and the budget built Rotel did not have any current shunt circuitry to deal with this phenomena (because they fiqured you'd be using the 14 guage power cord which, with it's high impedance, limited current flow during the turn-on stage).
I reset the breaker and the amp was emitting a slight ozone/burnt oil smell (not good) but when I sat down to listen to the music it sounded more open then it ever had before...HUGE soundstage!!! The problem was, everytime I turned off the amp for the night the next day I would have to go thru the same blow-the-breaker scenario.
Obviously the amps power supply system was not designed to accomodate the in-rush current even though the PS could draw more power so the amp ended up going back after several calls with Rotel Tech Support. Although I loved that amp I was more worried about getting electrocuted or "burning down the house".

I have NEVER detected a difference with source components or preamps and I don't believe there is a difference regarding cords on high currrent draw amps "if" the cord is of proper guage and solid termination AND the amps power supply circuitry is designed properly...

 

[Scrith]

As much as I'd like to say they don't make a difference...I've found cases where they definitely do. The most obvious difference that comes to mind is the Qualia 010 headphones with the Moon Audio Black Dragon cable...it just sounds better, and I've never heard anyone who has ever tried it say differently.

As for the other examples (and I own quite a few interesting power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables) they are generally very subtle. My 5-second guide to audio is: 90% of the sound comes from the speakers/headphones, 5% from the amp, 4% from the DAC, and 1% from the cables. Spend accordingly.

 

[Drag0n]

Cables make a difference, but its not always good, and the more expensive cable isnt always the best sounding either.
If cables dont make a difference, then i guess i just imagine that my Tara cable makes my system sound like crap and muddy, and i should just put it back into my system. I guess the Audioquest sounds exactly like my Monster and Tara and Signal Cable, and i just have such high expectations and wishes that i just talk myself into hearing differences, and i believe it so much that my friends agree with my findings also while theyre listening, because i only make friends with spineless jellyfish who are ignorant and have moldable personalities so that i can feel good about myself.

I need experts and engineers to tell me what i hear.
Maybe from now on, i shouldnt audition any sound equipment. Ill just hire an engineer to tell me what i should buy, and convince me it sounds the best.

 

[WittyzTH]

I believe in cable that can make sound different. However, the difference is not by day and night. I wouldn't spend couple hundreds for only cables. investing in the source and amp is the way to go unless your source and amp are already high-end.

 

[ZephyrSapphire]

I believe that silver and copper have different sounds due to personal experience. But other than silver and copper having different sounds, nah. It's always the "neutral or warm?" choice to me.

 

[paulllaser]

I was a cable skeptic until clear differences were heard by my own ears at our Audio Society meetings over the past few years. Better yet, fuses make a notable difference in power amps with Acme silver being the top in our demonstrations. Never would have thunk it!

 

[QQQ]

There's something isn't right then i must believe in something to justify buying it.

 

[SACD-Man]

Cables make a huge difference!!! For those who can not hear a difference, you must have not tried other types. Silver signature is much different them copper. Cryo has a completely different sound. Connectors add to the mix!!!

I agree that if you do not hear a diff., then so be it. Leave the others who can alone since I have a smile each day listening to different cables builds for different source, combo with equipment - etc.

All of your components adds up! Believe me since I make cables......

 

[Terminus Est 23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd be more impressed with you claims if you stated in your profile what your equipment is.

I actually find that one of the more irritating and tacky aspects of this forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif I used to work with electrical engineers who listened to crap equipment, even with audible hum. Being an engineer doesn't make you an audiophile or music lover.

Nor does being on this forum. I'm not really sure what your point is here - especially in context of what the discussion was and the response was too.

I truly hope you understand the difference between an electrical engineer and an audio engineer (I think it was in this very thread I pointed out that there is a large one)

I've set up and worked with millions of dollars of gear, with guys like Vince Welnick and Bruce Hornsby and currently I'm building my own small project studio after years of not being involved in the music industry. My claims weren't and aren't an attempt at Appeal to authority, they were simply in response to someone who was wondering if the critics he was dealing with actually had experience with high-end gear.

 

[Dominat0r]

I have to say, there are differences with all types of cables, now does that translate into better SQ? I would say not always.

I was not a believer in cables in the beginning. I tried a few different IC through the years and notice slight changes as i relisten to my favorite music.

Power cables are a mixed bag...i didnt buy a really expensive one either, so its kinda one of those things. I can say that there is a bigger change in SQ from IC and Headphone cables then there are with Power cables. Now Conditioning, thats a whole new ball game.

 

[slwiser]

Try going without any of them and see who your music plays!