[Prog Rock Man]

I was commenting on your reply to Head Injury and his comment about placebo. If there really was an audible difference within a cable, it would not be placebo. But the mind effect caused by our senses and influences is a kind of placebo effect.

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

But you didn't say "sound better." You said "That the audible differences between cables is the result of placebo..." If the difference is an audible one, then it's decidedly not due to placebo.
 
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Audible differences in sighted tests. Perceived differences. Not real audible differences.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Audible differences in sighted tests. Perceived differences. Not real audible differences.

Audible means only one thing.
 
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[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

Audible means only one thing.
 
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: heard or capable of being heard
 
 
If you ask me, that makes something one hears as a result of placebo audible.  Does that necessarily make it a real sound?  No - because the definition of audible is tied to what you hear, not more specifically to what sounds occur that one may hear.
 
For example, with the McGurk effect I would say that when the presenter is shown saying "bah" but his lips move like "fah", "fah" is audible when you are watching him - and when you close your eyes, "bah" is now audible.  I would say that audibility is intrinsically tied into what we perceive, and as such does in fact incorporate the rest of our senses - even when they mislead us.
 
But we're playing word games again - because based on context it is perfectly clear what he meant.

 

[bmiamihk]

Ok let me clear it up. The silver cables brings out a fuller sound. Why does it I do not know I am not a scientist but I can compare it to a hose. If I am using a thin hose there will be a limti on the flow of water. If I use a huge hose that I can walk inside of there will be no flow using the same amount of water as before. I guess the silver wire is like a hose with the correct diameter which allows the better flow.

 
Quote:

If only it were so simple to bury the hatchet with "louder = better" (at a given gain setting) plus whatever equal loudness cockamamy, but life isn't that simple.
 
I imagine an ohm or two difference in speakers cables makes for a more noticeable difference in loudness.
 
Bleh.

 

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Ok let me clear it up. The silver cables brings out a fuller sound. Why does it I do not know I am not a scientist but I can compare it to a hose. If I am using a thin hose there will be a limti on the flow of water. If I use a huge hose that I can walk inside of there will be no flow using the same amount of water as before. I guess the silver wire is like a hose with the correct diameter which allows the better flow.

Now we just have to demonstrate a correlation between the not-silver cable and a limit on signal flow.

 

[bmiamihk]

Sounds like a good idea.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackbeardBen /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
: heard or capable of being heard
 
 
If you ask me, that makes something one hears as a result of placebo audible.  Does that necessarily make it a real sound?  No - because the definition of audible is tied to what you hear, not more specifically to what sounds occur that one may hear.
 
For example, with the McGurk effect I would say that when the presenter is shown saying "bah" but his lips move like "fah", "fah" is audible when you are watching him - and when you close your eyes, "bah" is now audible.  I would say that audibility is intrinsically tied into what we perceive, and as such does in fact incorporate the rest of our senses - even when they mislead us.
 
But we're playing word games again - because based on context it is perfectly clear what he meant.

 
hear : to perceive or apprehend by the ear
 
Quote:

If you ask me, that makes something one hears as a result of placebo audible.  Does that necessarily make it a real sound?  No - because the definition of audible is tied to what you hear, not more specifically to what sounds occur that one may hear.

 
And what you actually hear is tied to what actually reaches your ear.
 
Quote:

For example, with the McGurk effect I would say that when the presenter is shown saying "bah" but his lips move like "fah", "fah" is audible when you are watching him - and when you close your eyes, "bah" is now audible.

 
No, it is not audible. Because there is no change in what's presented to the ear. Therefore the perceived difference is wholly due to the brain and nothing to do with the ear.
 
Quote:

I would say that audibility is intrinsically tied into what we perceive, and as such does in fact incorporate the rest of our senses - even when they mislead us.

 
No, audibility is not intrinsically tied to what we perceive. For there to be an audible difference, there must also be a difference in what's received by the ear.
 
se

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Ok let me clear it up. The silver cables brings out a fuller sound. Why does it I do not know I am not a scientist but I can compare it to a hose. If I am using a thin hose there will be a limti on the flow of water. If I use a huge hose that I can walk inside of there will be no flow using the same amount of water as before. I guess the silver wire is like a hose with the correct diameter which allows the better flow.
 

 
But if you simply use a little more copper, you can have a hose of the same size.
 
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[drez]

Quote:

 
hear : to perceive or apprehend by the ear
 
 
And what you actually hear is tied to what actually reaches your ear.
 
 
No, it is not audible. Because there is no change in what's presented to the ear. Therefore the perceived difference is wholly due to the brain and nothing to do with the ear.
 
 
No, audibility is not intrinsically tied to what we perceive. For there to be an audible difference, there must also be a difference in what's received by the ear.
 
se

But, if I'm not mistaken, we cannot hear without the brain, which is coloured by our preconceptions unless we trick it by blind testing etc.  But you are right - audible to me suggests the perception of sound which can be repeatably perceived by others.
 
What you hear on the other hand can be as divorced from reality as you want.
 

 

[bmiamihk]

Quote:

 
But if you simply use a little more copper, you can have a hose of the same size.
 
se
 
 

 Maybe so, maYBE ONE DAY THESE SAME COMPANIES CAN OFFER THEIR OWN UPGRADES AND BESIDES THE UPGRADES LOOK PRETTY HAHAHA. My goal is for deeper bass without blasting the volume. what the heck sometimes I do like it poud.

 

[liamstrain]

Quote:

 My goal is for deeper bass without blasting the volume. what the heck sometimes I do like it poud.

Get a ZO, or eq, or cans with drivers designed for it. There is no indication that any cable will have any effect on the amount and quality of the bass you hear. 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

It would certainly appear and not unreasonably, that people describe in the mind effects as audible.

 

[Somnambulist]

This one been posted before?
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

 

[bmiamihk]

Quote:

Get a ZO, or eq, or cans with drivers designed for it. There is no indication that any cable will have any effect on the amount and quality of the bass you hear. 

 I agree, EQ is the way to bring out the bass. I use a Cowon for that because Apple well a Apple is a music toy with a lot of limitations.