[gaboo]

Any chance of plots fot the new Senns?

 

[BowerR64]

why did he post the graphs that one channel didnt get a good seal? why not fix the seal and retest them?

 

[bangraman]

I think he was doing it in hurried tests in shops using in-ear mics and a portable MD to record the test noise being played back through the shop's CD player feeding the phones. In Tokyo and Osaka certainly, depending on where you go you can browse through racks and racks of phones. Sorry if I'm wrong j-curve, but the seemingly sometimes wildly inaccurate nature of the plotting results of the phones I've owned and know indicates it. Because the HD25-1 fits close to the ear and is supraaural, it is possible that the capsule mic stuck out too much to obtain a seal with the HD25-1. The results of the supraaural / semi-supraaural phones are especially suspect, although some of the circumaural phones are out of whack too.

 

[j-curve]

Hi BowerR64, I assume you're referring to those graphs where the left and right channels are basically in agreement above some frequency but show an offset of a few dB in the bass, such as the Sennheiser HD212 Pro:-

The reason is that it was not possible to view the results at the time of each actual test, so these differences weren't visible until later. It would have been possible to go back and re-test those headphones but in a way I think it's informative because it shows that the particular headphone may have sealing issues (at least on my head

).

 

[j-curve]

Ahhh, bangraman, me old mate! <snip>...</snip> I'm not sure why you'd suggest that the tests were hurried, other than that there were many of them and the process was somewhat repetitive. Quote:

bangraman: ...test noise being played back through the shop's CD player feeding the phones...

Nope, no shop sources or amplifiers were used, with the sole exception of the Stax amp. Quote:

bangraman: Sorry if I'm wrong j-curve, but the seemingly sometimes wildly inaccurate nature of the plotting results of the phones I've owned and know indicates it.

As far as I know, I haven't plotted any of the phones you've owned(!) Of course I know what you mean, but it is an important point. Quote:

bangraman: The results of the supraaural / semi-supraaural phones are especially suspect, although some of the circumaural phones are out of whack too.

Something, somewhere along the line, is almost guaranteed to be out of whack, and the HD25-1 may be a case in point. However, I suspect you are over-generalising. As I recall, you previously tested a couple of your headphones with an equaliser, but one of the graphs you chose from here for the comparison was not the same model, or even the closest model, to your actual headphone, but chosen because it sounded similar to you. Have you done a series of similar tests with others in your collection? Whether or not headphones can be made to sound like each other by matching up their EQ's is another thorny question.

Our approaches to this hobby seem diametrically opposite. My objective is to hear many but own as few pairs of headphones as possible, just the right ones, and I'll take advantage of whatever is available to help me achieve that, including in-store auditions, headphone testing and reviews posted by other Head-Fiers. Your goal, by contrast, seems to be to have owned as many different headphones as possible. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but go on, admit it - the real issue here is your agenda against in-store auditioning and headphone testing. Would it be impolite to suggest that you'd like people to base their headphone purchasing decisions on reviews alone, <snip>
.
.
</snip>

Please understand that I'm winding you up, getting your goat etc. etc. I certainly wouldn't want to make an enemy of anyone with a post-count of over 7 per day!

Edit: Since my attempt to raise the heckles of the coolheaded bangers failed in such a dismal way, unnecessarily provocative content has been snipped from this post, in the interests of global peace (and self-preservation

).

 

[j-curve]

luukas and Steve999,
Thanks for looking into the HD25-1 anomaly. It is very interesting that the old Headroom SP graph exhibited a similar effect. I wonder what they did to fix the bass for their new graph.
If the bass drop-off I measured was a sealing issue, it seems unusual that the left and right sides should match so closely. I'll add a note about this below the graph.

 

[bangraman]

It's been consistently over 7 a day, no less. The advantages and disadvantages of having global Internet access, and a screen more or less dedicated to showing Head-Fi when I'm at home.

Actually, you've plotted a lot of the phones I own/ed. My list in the profile isn't complete by any means. I happen to think most of them are a very rough guide, but the two-EQ-sum method didn't actually get anywhere near close, because the plots themselves weren't that indicative of the phone's responses. If I can't rely on say 5 or so (not a specific number I remember, it's been a while since I looked at all the responses but I do recall finding a few that just didn't add up... hence my original questions) results out of what you originally posted, then what's to say I can rely on the plot for one of the phones that I don't own?


Don't get me wrong, I don't usually go out to prod people but I do question what I think are not properly researched, inadequately performed tests or even just plain wrong info. And I'll question anyone, from you to Headroom if I think it's justified.

 

[Steve999]

This is one of the best threads on head-fi ever. I have gotten endless enjoyment from it (I have all the graphs printed out in a notebook!). It's a blast just to have you name me in one of your posts. So please don't take my one guesstimate as to which graphs are the most accurate for the HD 25-1 in a bad way. It is a headphone that is supposed to seal but with small earcups, so it is a prime suspect for seal issues, IMHO. Further, I think nearly anyone who has heard it personally will say it is subjectively strong in the bass, so the newer headroom graph "looks" right to me. And when I see a sealed phone weak in the bass in one measurement and strong in the bass in another, I always guess the seal wasn't so good where the bass looks weaker. But the point about both sides measuring the same for you is a good one. There's a reasonable chance I'm wrong even after all that. I know my limits.

Besides, you are far too clever to argue with. The joke would be on me.

Seriously, thanks for your reply and thanks for the thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by j-curve luukas and Steve999, Thanks for looking into the HD25-1 anomaly. It is very interesting that the old Headroom SP graph exhibited a similar effect. I wonder what they did to fix the bass for their new graph. If the bass drop-off I measured was a sealing issue, it seems unusual that the left and right sides should match so closely. I'll add a note about this below the graph.

 

[BowerR64]

Quote:

Originally Posted by j-curve Hi BowerR64, I assume you're referring to those graphs where the left and right channels are basically in agreement above some frequency but show an offset of a few dB in the bass, such as the Sennheiser HD212 Pro:- The reason is that it was not possible to view the results at the time of each actual test, so these differences weren't visible until later. It would have been possible to go back and re-test those headphones but in a way I think it's informative because it shows that the particular headphone may have sealing issues (at least on my head ).

No i was refering to some that look similar to this one.

The right channel seems to be dead. This is a good thread and i look at it alot.

 

[Tucker]

Interesting thread.

Really wish there were some Grados in there!!!

 

[cam94z28]

I find it wierd that theres a big dip right around 3k in the graph for the HD212's yet thats where I have to cut my eq by 2db?