[subwoof3r]

Thanks, I look forward to your photos! Good points, yep the white shells has definitely larger hole at the cable, though the upper vent on the stem is still not open - I tried to pour water in the chamber and see where it flows out. I'm not sure if it's only production issue, for me it looks like an intentional modificiation, at least all of my white vido shells (I had 3) share the same sound. My Fengru Silver shell has similar effect on sound (it's silver in the inside too) Actually I made a comparison few weeks ago, I put an emx500 speaker in a basic black shell from ali and then moved it into the fengru silver, with the same tuning foam. Here is the difference in measurements. (please note my graphs are not compensated, there is a bump between 2.5-6khz that should be roughly on the level of 1khz in the real world, and there is another bump at 250hz that is just a resonance. Apart from these a flat response should look flat on the graph)

Are your two shells in your test the exact same ? (absolutely no holes like I showed in my picture?)
That could be really weird to me, especially if you only just made a drivers swap in the exact same shells.

 

[Themilkman46290]

J

Oops I forgot to add the legend, I fixed it! The very V shaped looking graph is the emx500 with silver. The white vido shell has similar effect. It doesn't matter which driver or tuning foam I put into these, this distinct V shaped sound with bright upper mids is persistent. I think the original emx500 earbud should be very similar to this as well, but I don't have one just saw graphs and reviews about it that were very similar.
The green flatter line is the simple black shell, to better understand the graph, it is only bright above 5khz, everything else is close to neutral

I actually noticed this but I thought maybe it was my thinking, before my 600ohm driver died on me, I was trying them in different shells, and noticed the black shells had a bit less highs. it makes sense actually, metal has different acoustic properties then plastic, and my metallic shells are actually covered in what seems to be a brass/copper layer with a chrome finish

 

[robar]

Are your two shells in your test the exact same ? (absolutely no holes like I showed in my picture?)
That could be really weird to me, especially if you only just made a drivers swap in the exact same shells.

No, the shells are not the exact same, one is the regular black plastic one that you can get with some speakers on aliexpress, the other is the fengru silver/tc200 which is a chrome finished shell inside-out and it is more rigid, different kind of material. I'll take pics, as I'm not sure if there's any difference between the vents, but I couldn't find anything very visible. Then there's the white vido shells which is simple plastic but has a similar effect to the fengru silver, this is what puzzles me the most because I couldn't notice a big difference in the vents either, maybe the cable hole is larger. I'll take out my macro lens and flash to make detailed pics. I don't think the stock tuning foam of vido could have an effect like this, there should be something in the shell itself.

J

I actually noticed this but I thought maybe it was my thinking, before my 600ohm driver died on me, I was trying them in different shells, and noticed the black shells had a bit less highs. it makes sense actually, metal has different acoustic properties then plastic, and my metallic shells are actually covered in what seems to be a brass/copper layer with a chrome finish

Yep this could be one reason, but the white vido shell has a similar effect which is plain plastic, this is what I can't understand. Will make pics for further analysis

 

[Themilkman46290]

No, the shells are not the exact same, one is the regular black plastic one that you can get with some speakers on aliexpress, the other is the fengru silver/tc200 which is a chrome finished shell inside-out and it is more rigid, different kind of material. I'll take pics, as I'm not sure if there's any difference between the vents, but I couldn't find anything very visible. Then there's the white vido shells which is simple plastic but has a similar effect to the fengru silver, this is what puzzles me the most because I couldn't notice a big difference in the vents either, maybe the cable hole is larger. I'll take out my macro lens and flash to make detailed pics. I don't think the stock tuning foam of vido could have an effect like this, there should be something in the shell itself.


Yep this could be one reason, but the white vido shell has a similar effect which is plain plastic, this is what I can't understand. Will make pics for further analysis

Hmm, that's strange, could the vents be different?

 

[furyossa]

No, the shells are not the exact same, one is the regular black plastic one that you can get with some speakers on aliexpress, the other is the fengru silver/tc200 which is a chrome finished shell inside-out and it is more rigid, different kind of material. I'll take pics, as I'm not sure if there's any difference between the vents, but I couldn't find anything very visible. Then there's the white vido shells which is simple plastic but has a similar effect to the fengru silver, this is what puzzles me the most because I couldn't notice a big difference in the vents either, maybe the cable hole is larger. I'll take out my macro lens and flash to make detailed pics. I don't think the stock tuning foam of vido could have an effect like this, there should be something in the shell itself.

A while ago on YT I was watching a guy who sad that the depth of the shell of Tingo is greater than standard MX500.

I'm not sure that AliXpress sells original Tingo shells.
Also, translate this page to see a detailed description of Tingo TG-38. The original driver has a voice coil made of aluminum, not cooper.

 

[beanxinh]

Thanks, I look forward to your photos! Good points, yep the white shells has definitely larger hole at the cable, though the upper vent on the stem is still not open - I tried to pour water in the chamber and see where it flows out. I'm not sure if it's only production issue, for me it looks like an intentional modificiation, at least all of my white vido shells (I had 3) share the same sound. My Fengru Silver shell has similar effect on sound (it's silver in the inside too) Actually I made a comparison few weeks ago, I put an emx500 speaker in a basic black shell from ali and then moved it into the fengru silver, with the same tuning foam. Here is the difference in measurements. (please note my graphs are not compensated, there is a bump between 2.5-6khz that should be roughly on the level of 1khz in the real world, and there is another bump at 250hz that is just a resonance. Apart from these a flat response should look flat on the graph)

Is it expensive to obtain the equipments that can measure frequency respond like this ? Thank.

 

[furyossa]

Is it expensive to obtain the equipments that can measure frequency respond like this ? Thank.

This is the cheapest solution
You only need Dayton Audio iMM-6 and mobile device. iPhone have better app then android.
If you plan to use it with PC then you need an external sound card.

EDIT: Also U need to create coupler for IEM's or earbuds.
The top black part is for earbuds and bottom (transparent pipe) is for IEM.
The only problem with my coupler is the length but this solution is only for testing, not professional use.

Can anyone show a detailed tutorial of how to setup REW (Room EQ Wizard) for Earbuds measurement? I only managed to find this tutorial that is for speakers correction.

 

[robar]

Is it expensive to obtain the equipments that can measure frequency respond like this ? Thank.

I use my Tascam DR-05 portable recorder. The condenser mic is very nice quality and the diameter matches the front cover of earbuds, so I just push the shell against it. I feed the input and output signal with a focusrite 2i2, but it's not really necessary I just happen to have one on my desk. The less accurate parts of the graph might come from the side vents of the mic barrel, I'll try to cover them with tape and test

This is the cheapest solution
You only need Dayton Audio iMM-6 and mobile device. iPhone have better app then android.
If you plan to use it with PC then you need an external sound card.

Can anyone show a detailed tutorial of how to setup REW (Room EQ Wizard) for Earbuds measurement? I only managed to find this tutorial that is for speakers correction.

Interesting, thanks for sharing! I was wondering about the house curve feature, might be useful for tuning
After a brief setup in the settings of REW (setting up sound devices, feedback loop calibration which didn't change anything in my case etc), I just measure raw uncompensated so I don't use corrections. I use 256k sweeps, one per measurement, measuring multiple times and averaging them afterwards. Sometimes I use smoothing but not very much. I measure for myself, usually to help me with tuning, so what I'm mostly interested in is relative differences between graphs. no special post processing is necessary. I set my graph limits to 20hz-20khz and 30-85dB, this is just my preference with my particular setup. Very quick and easy method. I'll research further into corrections but to be honest without a widely adopted reference point it's just guesswork, I find it more effective to understand the nature and limitations of the measurements and compensate in my mind. Csglinux's graphs are one of the closest to natural reproduction of the sound signature (except for 8-10khz dip), this is why I know where is the upper mid bump in my graphs.
I find it very useful to choose reference earbuds that are quite neutral and/or widely known. For example I often use the blue qian25 as a point of comparison for sound signature, because it's cheap and sort of neutral with decent bass and slight elevation above 5-6khz. It would be interesting to compare our graphs about the same earbuds, even if there are variations between units, it would show some interesting differences that could be helpful

 

[furyossa]

Interesting, thanks for sharing! I was wondering about the house curve feature, might be useful for tuning
After a brief setup in the settings of REW (setting up sound devices, feedback loop calibration which didn't change anything in my case etc), I just measure raw uncompensated so I don't use corrections. I use 256k sweeps, one per measurement, measuring multiple times and averaging them afterwards. Sometimes I use smoothing but not very much. I measure for myself, usually to help me with tuning, so what I'm mostly interested in is relative differences between graphs. no special post-processing is necessary. I set my graph limits to 20hz-20khz and 30-85dB, this is just my preference with my particular setup. Very quick and easy method. I'll research further into corrections but to be honest without a widely adopted reference point it's just guesswork, I find it more effective to understand the nature and limitations of the measurements and compensate in my mind. Csglinux's graphs are one of the closest to natural reproduction of the sound signature (except for 8-10khz dip), this is why I know where is the upper mid bump in my graphs.
I find it very useful to choose reference earbuds that are quite neutral and/or widely known. For example I often use the blue qian25 as a point of comparison for sound signature, because it's cheap and sort of neutral with decent bass and slight elevation above 5-6khz. It would be interesting to compare our graphs about the same earbuds, even if there are variations between units, it would show some interesting differences that could be helpful

I agree with you. You don't need to cover backside, inner "horseshoe" already do that in some way, also I try to not use foams.
I've been thinking about it and I think maybe the Harman Kardon curve as house curve can be used but not sure.
As I mentioned earlier about coupler, the length is a very important parameter here because we need to simulate real environment ie distance between the speaker and are eardrum.
Also, profile ie shape of the inner cavity of the ear canal is not a straight tube but a winding canal. Quiet place and much more...
Anyway as you said: "I measure for myself, usually to help me with tuning".
Here are my REW measurements (*.mdat file) for various buds but probably is not good because I didn't setup REW correctly.
EDIT: Seems funny but this could be used as a coupler

 

[robar]

I agree with you. You don't need to cover backside, inner "horseshoe" already do that in some way, also I try to not use foams.
I've been thinking about it and I think maybe the Harman Kardon curve as house curve can be used but not sure.
As I mentioned earlier about coupler, the length is a very important parameter here because we need to simulate real environment ie distance between the speaker and are eardrum.
Also, profile ie shape of the inner cavity of the ear canal is not a straight tube but a winding canal. Quiet place and much more...
Anyway as you said: "I measure for myself, usually to help me with tuning".
Here are my REW measurements (*.mdat file) for various buds but probably is not good because I didn't setup REW correctly.
EDID: Sounds funny but this could be used as a coupler

Thanks, you have quite a collection of earbuds/measurements, props! Your setup is very different from mine, mine is sort of simulating a natural seal directly on top of the mic (roughly matches my subjective listening experience except for the 2-5khz bump), yours is more like a perfect seal /coupler type (no bass falloff, 3 distinct dips above 1khz especially at 4-6khz and 8-10khz, slowly decreasing towards treble, bit similar to audiobudget's graphs) Unfortunately I don't have any buds from your collection so I can't find a matching graph from my files :/ Btw, could you try measuring with no or very small coupler and/or less perfect seal? I think it would help reduce the differences between our setups, just for curiosity.
The problem with harman cardon though, is that it's designed for headphones and iems, for uncompensated measurements with industry standard equipment (artificial ear designed to be the average). It takes the artificial ear's resonances in account that compensations or imperfect imitations of the specific ear distort or hide on the graphs, plus with earbuds theimperfect seal and some sort of foam has to be simulated as well. With earbuds I haven't seen any graph that would be comparable with correct headphone/iem measurements - that is, either a compensated one where a flat sounding earbud would show as a flat line without showing any dips or peaks or unrealistic subbass response or show something like an accurate raw graph of iems. The useful thing for me from the harman curve is the subjective part - what to boost or decrease compared to neutral for a speaker ilke sound.

I think the best way for DIY is to not simulate the ear, because it's just not possible to get the same resonance as the multi thousand dollar artificial ear, and any other type of resonance just distorts the sound with no reference point. Of course the most industry standard way would be to put the earbud with perfectly identical foams into the expensive certified artificial ear and then apply the compensation of that specific ear that was calculated from reference speaker measurements. But for us with low resources the opposite is the most accurate solution, to remove any potential resonance like the couplers and bring the earbud as close to the mic as possible, with realistic seal. This way we don't need to compensate for the ear resonances, because we don't introduce ear-like resonances (that would be imperfect anyway). I think this is the reason why my method works well. I'll experiment with reducing the remaining resonances further, I think the reason of those is the omnidirectional nature of my mic. (there are openings on the sides of the mic barrel as well etc)

 

[headenvelopedinsound]

Mine looks very similar to yours as well. This is my little kit I’ve made. And use Audio Tools app on my iphone. Does a pretty good job. Graphs are of Smabat M1 Pro and ST-10. For my purposes it does a good job.

 

[furyossa]

could you try measuring with no or very small coupler and/or less perfect seal

I don't have a perfect seal because I remove foams before measurement. Inside a tube, at the top, I placed a tiny sponge ring just to hold earbuds but still loosely.
Thanks but my measurements are far away from accurate

Mine looks very similar to yours as well. This is my little kit I’ve made. And use Audio Tools app on my iphone. Does a pretty good job. Graphs are of Smabat M1 Pro and ST-10. For my purposes, it does a good job.

Yup. You have also a long tube which is the problem, for IEM is OK this first part with the length of an inch, but top part is almost impossible to place closer.
Take a look Vibro Labs Veritas. It also has many problems but the inner length of the coupler is right.
iPhone Audio Tools app is much easier to setup then Audio Tool app for Android and graphs are more accurate.I tried a few android apps but neither has a graph like REW

 

[robar]

I don't have a perfect seal because I remove foams before measurement. Inside a tube, at the top, I placed a tiny sponge ring just to hold earbuds but still loosely.
Thanks but my measurements are far away from accurate


Yup. You have also a long tube which is the problem, for IEM is OK this first part with the length of an inch, but top part is almost impossible to place closer.
Take a look Vibro Labs Veritas. It also has many problems but the inner length of the coupler is right.
iPhone Audio Tools app is much easier to setup then Audio Tool app for Android and graphs are more accurate.I tried a few android apps but neither has a graph like REW

interesting, but you still get perfect flat bass response like an audeze or an iem, weird. Most buds start to fall off around 80-100hz in real world usage.

 

[furyossa]

interesting, but you still get perfect flat bass response like an audeze or an iem, weird

It is weird. That's what I wonder too I also use some cheap USB sound card temporarily.
Probably my REW settings are wrong. That's why I'm looking for an example of REW settings for earbuds.

 

[headenvelopedinsound]

I don't have a perfect seal because I remove foams before measurement. Inside a tube, at the top, I placed a tiny sponge ring just to hold earbuds but still loosely.
Thanks but my measurements are far away from accurate


Yup. You have also a long tube which is the problem, for IEM is OK this first part with the length of an inch, but top part is almost impossible to place closer.
Take a look Vibro Labs Veritas. It also has many problems but the inner length of the coupler is right.
iPhone Audio Tools app is much easier to setup then Audio Tool app for Android and graphs are more accurate.I tried a few android apps but neither has a graph like REW

I am not sure what you mean by a problem? The ear canal is the same length no matter if it is an in ear or an earbud? Maybe I need to read back more closely I just shot off my stuff and gave some examples. To me and my purposes it's more than adequate.