[Paladin79]

At no time did I say you said anything Allan and I am not supposed to disparage any product so I walked back several comments I made earlier. The comments were made about that product. I have spent my entire career in the field of electronics except for maybe a one year stretch so it is a little hard not to be opinionated. I was mainly trying to point out that you have one center conductor going in and one coming out, no matter what happens in between, all you can hope to do is maintain the original signal. In this case, I believe simpler is better. Maintaining consistent twists in twisted pair or using fairly large copper center conductor with a good dielectric and shielding in coaxial cables is hard enough. I could have it wrong but they appear to have one solid litz wire. That in itself is um, how shall I say this, it runs counter to everything I have ever read about litz wires and their function. I will leave it at that.

Some time back I had reason to do some teaching concerning coaxial cables, some of the early patents in the U.S. were by Nikola Tesla, they have not changed much to this day for good reason.Twisted pair works, it has been used since the days of telegraph. OCC comes from a science based background and there are certainly ways to tell if the copper crystals are longer or more pure. I am more apt to believe something like that and the member of the scientific community who brought it about. I have had considerable experience with Chinese cables. I recall some where they had a thin little cable and it was x number of dollars, they sold you a beefier looking version that one would think would have larger wire and sold for more money. Basically it was the thin cable with extra jacket on it. For quality I look to Belden, Canare, Mogami, etc. as you do.

 

[HirschiAUT]

If you can get Belden cable there, Belden 1505A or 1505F (an rg 59 coaxial cable) works well. My people have probably built a few thousand spdif cables using it with no failures. I believe Belden is worldwide but I could be wrong. If you want a smaller coaxial cable then 1855A is the way to go, same specs as the 1505. Such cable has a copper center conductor that you need for low digital frequencies and it is also double shielded.

You can solder coaxial cable, I generally use Canare connectors made for the 1505A but the tools can be expensive since they are specialized crimp connectors. Rean/Neutrik I use on a daily basis and they are excellent connectors.

Going to 3.5 with such cable, I hope you are talking about a mono connection since coaxial cable only has two conductors so it is well suited for RCA connectors.

Thanks for your reply!

The only cable i can find locally is the Belden 1505F.
I would have preferred the 1855A for being smaller since i want to use the cable primarily for meets and testing, so more or less on the go.
And unfortunately the source for the 1505F is different from where i can get the 3.5mm connectors.
To save shipping i can get this 75Ohm cable from where i get my 3.5mm connector:

https://www.thomann.de/de/sommer_cable_vector_08_37_sw.htm

Will this also work?
Generally speaking, could i use any 75Ohm shielded cable or is there more to look out for?

Regarding going to 3.5mm, i am sure that coaxial trnasmission only requires "signal" and "ground" connection, so Mono would work.
But if i use only 2 Pins on a Stereo 3.5mm plug, that would also work right?

I ask because i cant get a gold plated black colored Mono 3.5mm connector here, i only get the Stereo version Rean NYS 231 BG.
I looked at the drawing, and since the outer diameter of the barrel is 9mm i should be able to drill the 4,5mm opening for the cable to fit a 6mm diameter cable, right?

The biggest problem is that i dont even know how the "pinout" of the DAP is for the coaxial transmission...

It is a conbined output, it can send a stereo "line out" signal via 3 pin 3,5mm cables (either to 3,5mm or 2xRCA).
And it can also send a digital SPDIF signal on the same output, but i dont know where "signal" and "ground" is connected on the 3pin output.

Is there any way to determine this by measuring?
Or do i have to play "trial and error" until i find the right combination
My guess would be the following layout, but as i said, i found no reliable information yet...
"Signal" would be the center conductor and "ground" the shield, correct?

 

[Paladin79]

You are correct on the signal and ground. As best I can tell the Sommer cable would work for SPDIF, my German is not too good. That cable is HD/SDI capable just like the Belden.
You have to be careful using mono 3.5 connectors in jacks for stereo (trs), the spacing is usually off and they do not often interchange well so you cannot assume a stereo plug will have the same spacing as a mono 3.5 mm. Rean sells a couple versions of the 3.5 mm, one has a larger opening.The larger stereo version is the NYS231L and the cable opening is 6.45 mm, that could be drilled out a bit but not much. As far as I know you cannot use any 75 ohm cable for spdif. 75 ohm is used throughout the television industry and some of it can be copper covered steel center conductor. You definitely want to look for something well shielded with a solid copper center conductor. I am a bit rushed for time this morn but I can try to answer other questions later today.

 

[JamieMcC]

Hi guys I recognise few here from the Bottlehead bb and BHF forum, I hope you might be able to offer a bit of guidance cable wise for my Senn HD800.

The rubber coating above the y splitter has started to perish and split first one side followed by the other side about a week later, two weeks on its rapidly disintegrated and now in a such a fragile state that it basically falling apart the cans are just over two years old.





So looking for some guidance on which way to go for a replacement, while I have not made a whole cable before I have reterminated the stock cable with a 4 pin xlr and made a xlr to trs adapter out of the offcut.

I was thinking along the lines of chopping off the damaged end and putting a 4pin xlr on it so it will then have one both ends and make a nice extension lead this would let me chill out the the sofa and listen to music or watch telly and make a shorter 1.5m replacement with a xlr which would be fine for sitting in the chair next to my amp and listening.

I noticed the neotech headphone cable on the hificollective site but it looks quiet spendy.

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-nech-3001-copper-headphone-cable.html

Another option is just use some standard Belden or Mogami starquad microphone cable

https://www.canford.co.uk/Products/30-920_MOGAMI-2893-CABLE

Really could do with some pointers on other cables to check out that would be considered a replacement/upgrade from the original

Cheers
Jamie

 

[Paladin79]

Jamie, I will only address what you are dealing with at this time on your headphones. I would do a bit of repair on your existing cable then you can always move on to replacements. I would carefully remove the existing damaged jacket to a point where you have good material, then select a heat shrink tubing with a 3 to 1 shrink ration that will fit over your headphone connectors. Something 5/16 inch or 8 mm might well fit over the connectors but you would have to be the judge of that. This will at least extend the life of what you have. IMHO 3-1 will go over your connectors and then shrink down to fit snugly onto your existing jacket.

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

Hi Jamie! Paladin is right, that would be a great way to preserve your existing cable. I wouldn't bother cutting it up to upgrade it. If you want to upgrade, get the Eidolic HD800 connectors (they are easiest to work with) and your choice of the two cables. Neotech makes really nice wire, the asking price is fair for what you get. You will need to get the polyurethane off the copper strands though, so you'll need an iron that can get pretty warm to melt it off with a solder blob (or use a friend's solder pot). Mentioned a little earlier in this very long thread, Cardas has a 4x24 that will work and Furutech offers a headphone cable, and there are many other microphone cables out there. You can also simply braid four strands of ~24 gauge wire. Silver clad wire (Belden makes it or you can find surplus on ebay) in PTFE is easy to work with, plentiful and low cost.

 

[Paladin79]

Very good advice Highflyin and it is nice to use 24 awg instead of the 26 awg required by other connectors. I am curious about the part number on the Belden wire you mentioned. Is that something you can give out or should I contact my distributor or visit their home office not far from me lol? I have known them to clad some wires in silver that are used in very high frequency applications. Maybe something like this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-Belde...776890?hash=item283b5f0d3a:g:uhkAAOSwTKJZeEnc

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BELDEN-NEW...562438&hash=item25e1764baf:g:-SIAAOSw22dZ1FQG

Here is more but it is 7/32 strand rate. 83003 is 19/36 and thus more flexible. All are mil spec so they are quite well made.

I will have to experiment with this wire sometime, a mention by someone from Zynsonix is good enough for me.

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

I was surprised to see it as well as I was digging through their catalog, but this was years ago. It was a 24 gauge single strand that was silver clad (not tin clad), and IIRC it was around 40 cents a foot. Given the breadth of Belden's offerings it might be easiest to drop by the office The items you linked look very suitable, although 2000 feet would take a while to go through, haha.

If you'd like surplus, Apex Jr. has very fair prices on the silver clad wire. You can order by the foot or spool. I've been doing business with Steve there for over a decade, very reputable.

EDIT: forgot to mention, if you order from Apex make sure to get the stranded version, not the solid core. The solid core is great for wiring up amps but bad for headphone cable (too stiff, can break with lots of movement).

 

[Paladin79]

I buy enough from Belden that they would most likely send me samples. To be honest, I have not tried many solid wires but I probably should sometime. I might buy surplus for my personal use, we do not do much with headphone cables as a company; I stay busy with other custom work. It is great to build up such good contacts and I am sure Steve is a fine person. The Chinese word guanxi pertains to building such networks; I have many such contacts myself.

I had promised some friends that I would check out more litz wire but I will most likely play around with the silver clad after that.

 

[JamieMcC]

Thanks guys very helpful,

It did originally crossed my mind to re sleeve the damaged areas with some para cord shrink wraping the ends but unfortunately I have left it to long and last night discovered there is now a short /break in the left channel at one of the damaged sections. They are still just usable if I sit very still and manipulate the cable a bit to get it to work

To be honest I have never felt the need to change from the stock cable and if I had damaged it accidentally I would probably just have ordered a new Sennheiser one but as the material has perished and I note this has happened to a few others ,I am reluctant to throw £100 odd on a new one only to have the same thing happen again in two years time.

I would also prefer to purchase a western branded know quantity cable rather than something I might not be 100% sure of off of Aliexpress.

I might add I use Aliexpress regularly for some carbon fibre products for work and it still amazes me that I can get the product ready made and delivered via courier in 7 days from China to the UK when I would struggle to get just the raw materials for the same price here in the UK and delivery would probably be more as well to boot.

Interestingly I can source the beldon 83003 you mention in the post above here in the uk for £37 for a 100ft this looks to be the same wire. I have not used silver plated wire before does it require any special prep or solder techniques I normally use cardas quad eutectic solder?

I don't have particularly fond memories of doing the xlr conversion finding out first hand how thin the hd800 wires were was a bit of a shock.
http://uk.farnell.com/belden/83003-009100/hook-up-wire-24awg-white-30-5m/dp/2764867

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2...811.469753495.1519755885-543606696.1512852640

I like the look of the idolic HD800 connectors they look much better quality than the budget ones I have seen on ebay yet are still significantly less costly than the furutech ones.

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

Many of the Aliexpress connectors are of good quality too. They're low cost enough to order blindly and then inspect if they are up to standard when they arrive. You will get some duds but overall 70% or so are very viable and as rugged as name-brand connectors like Neutrik. As others have said though, I'd never buy wire there. That's something I'm very particular about.

Silver clad wire requires no special prep, it's very easy to work with. The Cardas Quadeutectic solder will work well with it.

The Eidolic connectors are great. I was using Furutech before but they are too expensive and only mildly better than the standard HD800 connectors.

 

[JamieMcC]

I just remembered a few years back I made a input selector box with some silver pated wire (from Navships I think) and it didn't suit me and was rewired later with solid core copper, so will probably stick to a high quality copper.

I like the look of a couple of the Neotech cables I have thought about using the solid core in the past for a Bottlehead build and remember reading some positive ramblings about there hook up wire a few years back.

As I have no clue I wondered what the main advantages / disadvantages (if any) of going for the Litz braid cable over one from 4 separate hand braid braided cables might be?

The two that I am looking at are

Neotechs NECH-3001 headphone cable

4 multi-strand UP-OCC Copper with Litz conductors in a PVC insulation with a Nylon braided outer jacket.
Overall diameter: 3mm
Conductor with insulation: 0.9mm
Copper conductor: 0.6mm

Circa £27 a meter

Or

Neotech`s STDCT 99.999% high purity UP-OCC copper multistrand wire, sheathed in red, heat resistant teflon.

AWG 22, 7 strands of 0.25mm wire,
diameters, inner: 0.68mm,
outer: 1.9mm,

£20 for a meter (4 single wires)

Cheers
Jamie

 

[Paladin79]

Either of those sound intriguing.

I do believe there is some confusion over litz wire and litz braid but I have never found definitive information. At one point I believe I read that it is the stranding pattern so that each wire reached the outside surface the same amount of time as any other wire. Thus each wire in turn also acted as the center core where most of the signal traveled at audio frequencies.

Some folks apply the term to overall braid not stranding. Maybe they use a similar pattern.

Anyway soon I shall braid some Litz braid, redundant sounding as that might be.

 

[JamieMcC]

lol I am very easy confused but get where you are coming from litzing the litz so to speak.

 

[Paladin79]

Beware of advice- even this. Carl Sandburg

Anyway I am impressed with Neotech so I doubt you can go wrong there. I am more apt to buy product from companies that give you pertinent information and less subjectivity. Wire size, voltage rating, types of material... all good info.

Anyone can slap a sticker on a zip lock bag stating the product is 7n occ. I recall years ago a company putting fake UL labels on computer cases and getting caught doing so. UL now uses halogram labels to try to curtail some of the fake product.