[Max F]

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There are certainly valid reasons why the HD650 sound signature may not cater to all tastes, but mids are not really among them.  Lack of sub-bass, midbass hump, rolled off treble producing what some perceive as a lack of detail (which is actually just perception, it's quite detailed), and a "veiled" sound that is usually the product of bad amp synergy which usually translates to an impedance mismatch or occasionally lack of voltage swing.  Said impedance mismatch can lead to congested mids.   It's very possible the Burson simply is a bad impedance match for the HD650, just as the (old version, can't comment on new) Headroom Micro was to my ears a very bad impedance match for HD650.  I thought HD650 was congested until I tried them on an E11 and found out they were not.  From there I bought a Lyr.  But I honestly preferred the little E11 to the Headroom Micro for that headphone.   A $40 amp vs. a $350 amp, and the $40 amp was a better match.  Go figure.
 
Keep in mind that was the old model Micro.  I don't know what if any changes were made in the new ones.  tdockweiler a prominent Head-Fi'er really likes his (new model) Micro, including with HD650, but overall isn't an HD650 fan in general. 
 
Dumping HD650 in favor of T1 would buy a very different sound signature entirely, since Beyer favors a brighter sound.  Another same-priced alternative, actually cheaper, would be to sell the HD650 and get a HiFiMan HE-400 if you decide the HD650 sound isn't for you but you still like a darker headphone.  Or HE-500 for a price between.  Personally I'm still a huge HD650 fan given the right setup.  But it does have to be the right setup.  And since two of you have the same amp and have the same experience, it's worth considering.

 
This guy knows what he's talking about.  You really need an amp to match the high impedance HD650.  Even then you need to appreciate a slightly laid back headphone.  It may not be what you're after.  If you find that the HD650 is 90% what you want, then you can tweek the sound using various equipment or just EQ it like me and bring up the sub-bass, tame the midbass hump, and increase the treble.  The HD650 is almost flat but actually has a slight frowny face curve.  Most people like a nice V shape and I like a slightly happy face .

 

[olegausany]

I heard my pair of HD650 thru Burson amp playing FLAC files from Mac notebook at the recent NYC meet and they were lacking deep bass as they did with few other setups. Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1(DAC/AMP in one) is perfect match for HD650 while D7000 is perfect match for Burson

 

[nikp]

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It's possible. When you say 'mental age', meaning more mature musical tastes? I'm pretty keen on everything really. I did try the HD650's with some Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov, etc. I get what you mean though.
 
I'll bear it in mind, thanks for your help.

 
You'll probably want the HD600. I've heard both and classical, my main genre, sounds much much better on the HD600 which sound signature is neutral as opposed to HD650's laid back, dark (or slightly muddy) sig. My impression of the HD650 is similar to yours.
 
Don't blame the source, amp, dac. The Bursons are no slouch and the MBP have a really decent DAC. I suspect you don't like the HD650's character and even if there's break in, it won't stray far from the "tree". 

 

[TMRaven]

amazing.

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

Thanks for all of the posts in reply.
 
I'd like to clarify that the problem I have with mid-range sounds probably isn't as bad as you guys think. It's more that I jumped from a £20 set of Sony headphones to these, and I was expecting to be blown away. I've tried/used high quality headphones before, mind.
 
@IEMCrazy
A Sennheiser 'veil' sounds quite pertinent - it feels like the sound is very slightly distanced, particularly in the mid-range. I suppose it is somewhat arrogant to suggest this, but I do think I have sensitive hearing. I'm often told I can hear quiet sounds that many others can't - I am 18 though, which may have something to do with it. My point being, I'm probably listening very critically, trying to really examine the character of the sound. Perhaps I need to find some cans which really have an 'immediate' feel to them, as it were. As in, the sound seems at the very forefront. I see people on the forums time and time again talking about the 'laid-back' sound of the HD650's - perhaps that's what I'm noticing, and mistaking it for a lack of clarity. I'm quite new to this Audiophile stuff.

 
I'm very fortunate in that I've been able to order the T1's regardless. I think it would be useful to compare the two with the same amp, at the same sitting, and see how I feel. I'll post back my findings when they arrive, in case anyone is interested.
 
Many thanks for all those who posted, sorry I didn't reply to each individual. I'm keeping it all in mind.

 
From your comments you may have been looking for "wow factor", as jerg mentioned.  HD650 is more about "ultimate refinement" than about "wow, hyper detailed headphones."  The detail's all there, but in a polite, refined format.  Now, I will say my rig is set up primarily for HD650, and it had been temporarily relegated to "relaxation duty" after I got HE-400, but after I put a silver cable on it and picked some nice warm tubes, the HD650 shot back up to the best "wow factor" headphone for everything but classical.  However that's a costly endeavor if you aren't already an HD650 fan.  T1 may well give you more of the forward, treble detail emphasised sound you're looking for, but it's excellent that you get to compare both side by side.  That's the best option.  It could still be that the amp is the wrong choice for the headphone, but if you have another headphone around that you prefer with it, that's what matters!
 
HD650 can have to issues for someone who is first trying them.  The first is the "veil" which used to be a flame war here.  The reality is that they aren't veiled, but impedance issues with a given amp can add a veil and/or congested mids.  The other is the "laid back" sound.  Laid back generally refers to being slightly more "relaxing", or less treble centrc with boosted mids.  Similar to the equivalent of sitting a bit farther back in a love (acoustic) concert.  They also don't have the "big sound" dynamic range. They keep most of the music center focused in terms of the FR graph.  It makes them easy to listen to for long periods of time and also makes it easy to hear all the detail since it's not at the extreme poles.  As I said, a very refined sound, as opposed to a big "wow"  T1 will give you a lot more of that "wow", it's a more forward headphone with an emphasized treble detail (part of the Beyer house sound.)  Common misconception is that HD650 "lacks detail" but what it lacks is treble sparke.  That creates a psychoacoustic perception that there is no detail.  All the detail is there.  If you EQ out the sparkly treble region and audition them and a headphone of the same class without that rolled off treble, the rest of the detail becomes obvious. 
 
Nothing wrong with preferring an emphasized treble range to highlight detail.  That seems to be all the rage these days in the $1k+ headphones and has long been popular with Beyer since the good old days of the DT880, HD650, K701 flagship trio. 
 
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You'll probably enjoy cans with a more "fun" sound signature then. IMO HD650s fit the tastes of people 30 years or older (physical or mental age lol) who value timbre more than anything else in the world. If you are still trying to spend in the mid-fi ballpark ($300~500), go for Hifiman HE-400 or a used Denon D5000. They have much more 'wow' factor, and are no slouch in other sound aspects either.

 
I kind of go the opposite.  When HD650 is set up well (matching the right amp, tubes, cables whatever) it, to me, is the one with the wow factor.  The HE-400 is the smooth, powerful, dynamic one.  I'm probably the only person that prefers HE-400 almost exclusively for use with orchestral classical, and silvered HD650 for everything else

 
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You'll probably want the HD600. I've heard both and classical, my main genre, sounds much much better on the HD600 which sound signature is neutral as opposed to HD650's laid back, dark (or slightly muddy) sig. My impression of the HD650 is similar to yours.
 
Don't blame the source, amp, dac. The Bursons are no slouch and the MBP have a really decent DAC. I suspect you don't like the HD650's character and even if there's break in, it won't stray far from the "tree". 

Of course Bursons are great amps....I just don't know if it's the right match for HD650 since two folks with the Burson feel they have the "infamous veil." Maybe it's preference, maybe it's the mismatch.  I can't say either way, I don't have the Burson.   Either way, the OP has a T1 on the way, so the side by side comparison should be ideal in picking the winner!

 

[LithosZA]

The HD650 might not be your cup of tea. I also don't like the sound of the HD650. They do sound ok on bad recordings.
I think what annoys me is the hump as shown on this graph:
 

 
Maybe try some Denon D2000s or different sets of monitoring headphones

 

[TMRaven]

That graph is far from the truth when comparing the two headphone's overall sound.

 

[Velocity]

IEMCrazy is really spot on here! Thanks, cause you saved me a long comment, after all my english really sucks anyway
 
I let my freind try my HD650, and he wasnt that impressed. But I let him try it with some songs that he really liked and I told him to just enjoy the music and not thinking about how much detail or resolution it was. And then he could se what they where all about, but he still thought it should had little more treble. 
For me the HD650 actually have given me the biggest WOW-factor, cause the sound is really big and fat, making it more sounding like two speakers strapped around your head. 
 
But the official "WOW-factor" is CRYSTAL-clear sounding gear, making it sounding really CLEAN and grainless. But thats is equal to boosting bass and treble, and take out the mids. And without mids = no musical experience (imo). If this is what you want OP, HD650 is not for you. When I was new to hi-fi, this is what I wanted. So I bought the DT 990. I was really happy with the DT 990 though, the sound was clear and cool. You should try it out. 
 
I dont think the Burson HA160 causing some impendence missmatching or any other reason at all.. It is in the same leauge as my M1 HPA. And I dont here any muffled sound at all.

 

[nosracl]

Quote:

Either way, the OP has a T1 on the way, so the side by side comparison should be ideal in picking the winner!

 
I'm sure it will be useful, they'll be arriving in a few days. I'll gain perspective, whichever I decide I prefer. The danger is that I'll decide after a while that I like both for different reasons, and I'll end up wanting to keep them. We'll see.
 
@IEMCrazy (specifically)
 
When you say 'some nice warm tubes', what exactly do you mean? Am I right in thinking 'tubes' refer to a specific type of amp? Obviously this isn't the right thread to go into detail; could you perhaps link me to somewhere else which explains?
 
Thanks everyone. I'll post back with what I find with the T1's.

 

[LithosZA]

Tubes color the sound a bit. It is a bit difficult to describe in words, but it makes some harsh sounds sound less harsh. You can get kinda the same effect with some tube DSP filters.

Not everyone likes the sound of tubes. I am one of them

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

 
I'm sure it will be useful, they'll be arriving in a few days. I'll gain perspective, whichever I decide I prefer. The danger is that I'll decide after a while that I like both for different reasons, and I'll end up wanting to keep them. We'll see.
 
@IEMCrazy (specifically)
 
When you say 'some nice warm tubes', what exactly do you mean? Am I right in thinking 'tubes' refer to a specific type of amp? Obviously this isn't the right thread to go into detail; could you perhaps link me to somewhere else which explains?
 
Thanks everyone. I'll post back with what I find with the T1's.

 
You're onto the core addtiction....you'll always want both for different reasons, no matter how many headphones you're comparing

 
There are two major types of amplifiers: Tube and solid state.  Your normal amp such as your burson is SS.  Tube amps run on vintage vacuum triode tubes (valves if you prefer the British term.)  As Lithos said, tubes provide varying degrees of "coloration."  More specifically they provide some euphonicly pleasant second order harmonic distortion.  There are enthusiasts for tube gear, both for hi-fi and for guitar amps who will seek different vintages and brands of tubes for the specific sonic characters of them.  It can be a bit of a pain since tubes, like light bulbs, are wearable parts and can become noisy or vibration sensitive over time. But for those that like the creamy sound of them, there's nothing better.  "Warmth" is commonly referred to for tubes, but also for headphones and SS amps as well.  HD650 is "warm" sounding.  "warm" generally refers to a bumped mid-bass and lower-mid mids.  But that's the very quick description.
 
Some argue against tubes wondering why anyone would buy something that intentionally adds distortion.  However the type of distortion is generally pleasing, and one must not forget that when one hears live sound they are also hearing distortion as the sound reflects off the surfaces of the venue. Thus why tube fans call SS "sterile."  Tubes are also pretty glass globes that glow orange inside

 
It's all preference.  I have both a hybrid tube amp (it's half SS, half tube), and an all SS amp.  I prefer the hybrid for HD650, but I prefer the SS for my Denons.  All choice...
 
Quote:

Tubes color the sound a bit. It is a bit difficult to describe in words, but it makes some harsh sounds sound less harsh. You can get kinda the same effect with some tube DSP filters.

Not everyone likes the sound of tubes. I am one of them

 
Those DSP tube filters are horrid.  The type of "ordered chaos" that can happen in the analog domain simply can't be reliably produced digitally.  Actually DSP in general is horrible, but certain features have some use. Trying to mimic analog effects is just not simple digitally.