[Romani]

I had the original 2x and returned them both times...I thought they were not very good and I couldn't understand why they were so popular. Don't get get me wrong, there is some of what was good from the originals left in these, but these are tuned differently. They fixed the comfort issues and tuned the sound. I am not a burn-in believer but I am giving the mm400 their due and the sound gets better and better, whether brain burn-in or other.

I think it was their appearance and luscious midrange that gave them the reputation they have now. As for the AH-MM400's, I don't know how long you've had them for, but their sound signature does really change at around 100 hours. I would go as far as saying they are completely different sounding when they hit that milestone.

 

[BobMonkhouse]

Before I bought the Denon, I'd tried the old Momentums at least five times at different stores (with my sources), and didn't like them at all. They sounded spacious for closed headphones with good separation but with lack of balance, coherence and depth. The sloppy bass felt disconnected from the flat mids, and the mids from the highs. Actually, I liked only the highs, the mids didn't have depth for me. I'm really curious to hear the M2s and am open minded. I don't mind side-grading as long as my headphones complement each other. I just can't believe the quality of the sound's changed that drastically between the old and the new Momentums using the same drivers.
 
Besides right now, I'm listening to the CD version of the following with my MM400, and am amazed by the natural sound of all three instruments. I listened to these guys at their live concert recently, and I know how they should sound. The lows never miss the subtle dynamic changes of the bass, the drums are so realistic, and the decay and tonality of the piano is just perfect:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXpo-z9lZ-Q

 

[Kabonfaiba]

 
Make sure it is the over ear version not the on ear. I haven't heard the M2 on ear so I can not vouch for that, however I think MacHero gave them a very good review in the thread I copied above.
 
I will say the Denon is not at it's strongest out of the box, I received mine on May 4th, the details are starting to open up. I hate to compare a bang for the buck comparison, because I obviously don't know your financial situation.
 
 
How will you use them most? What activities? Out and about? Do you have a portable external amp? What source?
 
I will try to help just give me a bit more info.

 
It's definitely the Sennheiser Momentum 2.0, Around Ear Headphones - Ivory
The on ear is even cheaper!
 
I would use the Denons exactly as I use the M2 right now, always at home and as drum monitors. I can't go heavier because I need to keep weight down for low inertia when moving. I can't use an amp because I need to keep low latency. The single overbearing problem with the M2 is the mids are just TOO forward.
 
I use MPC for music playback. I switch on LFE crossover (I'm addicted to colorization this adds, but I only have it mixed 20-40% depending on source)
My EQ settings are as follows:
 
+3dB 32hz [increase sub-bass]
-0.30dB 64hz
-1.80dB 125hz [reduce bass bleed]
-0.60dB 250hz
-1.80dB 2000hz
-2.10dB 3000hz [reduce harsh upper-mids]
 
Just wondering if the Denon MM400 / D600 could be as musical and warm as the M2 is, but without me having to add colorization or fix the upper-mids. I'm way too fussy for my own good! I'm thinking I should just live with it, or go back to the Fidelio X2 - which aren't ideal drum monitors.

 

 

[Bark Snarly]

Glad the denons are starting to open up, magicman and subguy, really pleased to hear it! Thanks for the list of songs too, I'm going to check them out in a minute.
 
I also did a comparison between my cables that actually fit my denons. I only really noticed a difference with one of the cables and it was a very thin cable from some $20 dick smith headphones I have. It made the headphones feel very thin, reducing the bass and midrange to a sliver of their former self. As for the other 3 cables that fit (2 denon ones and the one from ebay), there were slight differences in impedance which might've made me feel they were actually different but I think if I could volume match them I'd be incredibly hard pressed to notice a difference between them, if I could at all.
 
I also tried all of those cables + my cables on my pm-3 as they all fit the pm-3 (although the pm-3 cables wouldn't fit in the denons, the diameter of the jack was just about a mm too big). Anyways, I came to the same conclusion with my pm-3's too, there were slight differences in volume due to different impedances but I don't think it actually affected the balance of the headphones at all and if they were volume matched I'd say they were pretty much identical.
 
I still think I'm going to purchase a nicer copper cable for my pm-3 (and hopefully I'll find a jack that will fit in the denons as well, using the same cable for both would be awesome). Just curious if they actually do make a difference and I'd like another cable anyways so as long as I have the money, I'm okay with spending a bit more than I normally would getting a new cable.

 

[Romani]

It's definitely the Sennheiser Momentum 2.0, Around Ear Headphones - Ivory
The on ear is even cheaper!

I would use the Denons exactly as I use the M2 right now, always at home and as drum monitors. I can't go heavier because I need to keep weight down for low inertia when moving. I can't use an amp because I need to keep low latency. The single overbearing problem with the M2 is the mids are just TOO forward.

I use MPC for music playback. I switch on LFE crossover (I'm addicted to colorization this adds, but I only have it mixed 20-40% depending on source)
My EQ settings are as follows:

+3dB 32hz [increase sub-bass]
-0.30dB 64hz
-1.80dB 125hz [reduce bass bleed]
-0.60dB 250hz
-1.80dB 2000hz
-2.10dB 3000hz [reduce harsh upper-mids]

Just wondering if the Denon MM400 / D600 could be as musical and warm as the M2 is, but without me having to add colorization or fix the upper-mids. I'm way too fussy for my own good! I'm thinking I should just live with it, or go back to the Fidelio X2 - which aren't ideal drum monitors. :rolleyes:  

The only thing I will say is, even though you want the Denons as they are lightweight, your need of low inertia whilst moving might deem these unsuitable as I personally don't feel their clamping force will be strong enough to keep them in place while your drum away. I could be wrong though. I think the V-Moda M100 may actually suit your needs more.

 

[Bark Snarly]

I'd agree, romani - the lower clamping force makes them very comfortable and they do stay on my head better than my p7's did (they were slippery leather everywhere) but they still slip around when I look right down.
 
M100, pm-3, sony mdr 1a, msr7 and m50x all clamp better and would probably suit drumming better imo. 

 

[148124]

btw rattling thing got me ;] especially when I move my head left-right - it comes from the right driver definately, but I don't care much, I don't move much when I listen to some music but it is present even in brand new unit, not a big deal
 
These are another epic recordings on youtube (in some epic moments but you can start from the beginning if u liked it):
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG9H5E2JN3s&feature=youtu.be&t=2m57s&hd=1
 
https://youtu.be/PhJ6odCdp0M?t=6m26s
 
https://youtu.be/m8XQaLEJsCU?t=26m54s
 
https://youtu.be/3CHdupOngCk?t=41m23s
 
https://youtu.be/C9qg_1qXSBE?t=22m59s
 
https://youtu.be/qoktesLkHy8?t=27m50s
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfpFs8N7CmA
 
https://youtu.be/6rVvtO3o2rw?t=37m2s
 
https://youtu.be/TArww-mlMuc?t=3m7s
 
https://youtu.be/fiPAHZUJOAw?t=29m41s
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9ugPXrY65k&feature=c4-overview&list=UUoE9537BkBHtOOrQAj6x_0w
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttF45s-Ikb8&feature=youtu.be&t=26m18s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1WqYDq4EnM&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1toLihZkDs&feature=youtu.be&t=2m28s&hd=1
 
https://youtu.be/Yd3u48YSHY8?t=5m22s
 
https://youtu.be/zAn08C6xFfQ?t=35s
 
https://youtu.be/37WVc8-haI4?t=43s
 
https://youtu.be/pdxjhqA23gg?t=46s
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6nlhe9jy8&feature=youtu.be&t=2m54s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dem5kXeXqNc&feature=youtu.be&t=6m30s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4cN1vc60sU&feature=youtu.be&t=54s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXAnc78kweM&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFChWC2CqDc&feature=youtu.be&t=6m33s&hd=1
 
https://youtu.be/_XD6t6OMVGw?t=6m13s
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSB15oq-DME&feature=youtu.be&t=19m45s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbpS2LfoTKU&feature=youtu.be&t=1m2s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN0-wmPaKww&feature=youtu.be&t=1m13s&hd=1
 
https://youtu.be/Gs4ZyEuk2FY?t=44s
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_QR_FTt3E&feature=player_detailpage#t=15s
 
https://youtu.be/HIJPxxoF7dw?t=49s
 
I hope anybody can find there something really interesting to listen, every recording has something really special
 
Make sure to turn on HD if it's possible ...

 

[musikaladin]

  btw rattling thing got me ;] especially when I move my head left-right - it comes from the right driver definately, but I don't care much, I don't move much when I listen to some music but it is present even in brand new unit, not a big deal
 
These are another epic recordings on youtube (in some epic moments but you can start from the beginning if u liked it):
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG9H5E2JN3s&feature=youtu.be&t=2m57s&hd=1
 
https://youtu.be/PhJ6odCdp0M?t=6m26s
 
https://youtu.be/m8XQaLEJsCU?t=26m54s
 
https://youtu.be/3CHdupOngCk?t=41m23s
 
https://youtu.be/C9qg_1qXSBE?t=22m59s
 
https://youtu.be/qoktesLkHy8?t=27m50s
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfpFs8N7CmA
 
https://youtu.be/6rVvtO3o2rw?t=37m2s
 
https://youtu.be/TArww-mlMuc?t=3m7s
 
https://youtu.be/fiPAHZUJOAw?t=29m41s
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9ugPXrY65k&feature=c4-overview&list=UUoE9537BkBHtOOrQAj6x_0w
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttF45s-Ikb8&feature=youtu.be&t=26m18s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1WqYDq4EnM&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1toLihZkDs&feature=youtu.be&t=2m28s&hd=1
 
https://youtu.be/Yd3u48YSHY8?t=5m22s
 
https://youtu.be/zAn08C6xFfQ?t=35s
 
https://youtu.be/37WVc8-haI4?t=43s
 
https://youtu.be/pdxjhqA23gg?t=46s
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6nlhe9jy8&feature=youtu.be&t=2m54s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dem5kXeXqNc&feature=youtu.be&t=6m30s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4cN1vc60sU&feature=youtu.be&t=54s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXAnc78kweM&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFChWC2CqDc&feature=youtu.be&t=6m33s&hd=1
 
https://youtu.be/_XD6t6OMVGw?t=6m13s
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSB15oq-DME&feature=youtu.be&t=19m45s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbpS2LfoTKU&feature=youtu.be&t=1m2s&hd=1
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN0-wmPaKww&feature=youtu.be&t=1m13s&hd=1
 
https://youtu.be/Gs4ZyEuk2FY?t=44s
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU_QR_FTt3E&feature=player_detailpage#t=15s
 
https://youtu.be/HIJPxxoF7dw?t=49s
 
I hope anybody can find there something really interesting to listen, every recording has something really special
 
Make sure to turn on HD if it's possible ...

 
...here the answer to the "rattling thing"...

 

[musikaladin]

I just did the (most likely) last update (PS6) of my review of the AH-M400.
 
Conclusion; Finally no further changes anymore between 200hrs and 300hrs. Still, no idea how the Denon guys do it that such an extremely long break-in is required to finally settle the FR. To me the experience with the AH-M400 is history repeating. It was similar with the AH-D7100.
 
So my advise to anybody who feels that the bass is too bloated: Be patient!!! give the mids and highs (a lot of) time to come forward. I actually enjoyed to see (hear) the sound refining more and more over time... 
 
-cheers-

 

[148124]

Actually I am now in the middle of process where I can find new improvement every day. But for me first 60-80 hours was a real pain in the *****. According to my reseller, Denon advices 150-160h for this headphone. But I still can't understand why manufacturers don't do burn it in before selling. Maybe too much extra $$$ for time, effort, extra checking etc

 

[CJG888]

For a start, they'd have to hold stock for at least an extra 160 hours...

 

[giveway]

If I get motivated maybe this weekend I can do the M2 and mm400 comparison

Please?

 

[subguy812]

Please?

Out of fairness to the potential buyers and to the mm400 I think I need to give them more hours. I keep reading 100 hours to be fair...The majority of time since the May 4th, the Denon's have been my primary listening headphone, I would say I have a minimum of 40 and probably closer to 50 hours on them. I have used them outside as well, but they look fairly premium to be walking in the street with

. Neither hp, the M2 or the mm400, is boring. I really enjoy both and look forward to more time with the mm400. I would say another 2 to 3 weeks or so I will have 100 hours. I did a little A/B'ing this morning in the quiet hours, but I also like to compare portables as they were meant to be used, out and about. I generally use portable sources for that reason as well, not home gear. this morning I realized this is going to be tough to choose one as better, maybe it will be clearer after more time, maybe not. 

 

[giveway]

Thanks for the response. Given how much you've said you love the M2's, things are looking good for the Denons.

 

[subguy812]

I am posting a few comments minus sound comments. I used Romani's review format to type these comments, thanks so much Romani!!! If there are any questions about anything on the opinions I have on these items, please don't hesitate to ask.
 
 
Sources: Fiio X5, PONO player, Moto X streaming Tidal,Lossless music formats, mp3's.
 
Usage so far: I have had about 40-50 hours of listening to these.
 
First impressions: Great! mm400 really rock!
 
Packaging: mm400 not much to it, very simple; M2 simple, box has foam insert inside foam is a protective case, inside the case is a black bag with M2 inside - Win M2(only slight better presentation)
 
Size: Portable - Both headphones,  No case for MM400 only black felt type bag, M2 has a case and a black bag - Win M2(the case)
 
Portability: Both are portable I feel strange with the Denon outside the home walking or otherwise because they look like a top shelf equipment,wood,chrome and design, M2 has more "cool" look a little more utilitarian. Both cans fold. The case for the M2 is a little big but could fit in a back pack - Win M2(the case; looks)
 
How they look on: Neither headphone is too large. The headband on the mm400 is not as bad as the HP50 but it does not conform to the line of the head, it sticks out a bit. The M2 looks "cooler" on the head. I wear both outside but would prefer the M2 - Win M2
 
Build quality: mm400 is beautiful!!! Wood covered cups, metal swivels and sliders and chrome inlays on the wood cups. The swivels and ability to move the cups on your ears, well built , well designed. The M2 is engineered; functional. I have not yet encountered the "noise" from the hinge point in the mm400 so I can't count that. The earpads on the M2 are real leather so soft almost a gooey feel, not creepy gooey luscious gooey. I wish the earcups from the M2 were on the mm400 - Win mm400
 
 
Value: Not fair...the M2 is less expensive and received a great deal on them. The retail is normally 350.00 for the M2 and 400.00 for the mm400.
 
 
Comfort: Both headphones are very comfortable. I like the comfort of the mm400 headband padding and wonder why the M2 puts little to less than little padding on the headband. The earcups on both are very comfortable, but as stated prefer the earpads on the M2. Initially, until you get the headphone adjusted the way you want the mm400 is more comfortable. - Win mm400
 
Leakage/Isolation: The M2 isolate better in the "world" but with music playing you can't hear much from the outside world with either headphone. The M2 isolate well. - Win M2(but who cares, with music playing they are equal)
 
That is everything up to sound...obviously some of the above is only my opinion, but this is all without taking sound into account. Cool factor, looks, etc... are a matter of taste, many of these things are a matter of taste.
 
I will add sound to this ongoing....