[Romani]

Good to finally see a review. I don't understand why people seem to think they have great isolation though. They definitely do not isolate well for me. Maybe I’m wearing them wrong .

They're not the best isolating headphones on the planet. Music off, you hear your surroundings. Music on, you drown things out mostly if not altogether, depending on your volume setting. So no, you're not wearing them wrong. This is not Apple

 

[Bark Snarly]

It's pretty easy to get small gaps between the pads and your head considering how shallow the pads are. If there are any holes (even slightly) the isolation will be a lot worse.

I still find the isolation pretty dang good, not far below the p7 which still has the best passive isolation I've heard in a closed can.

 

[Kabonfaiba]

http://www.digitalversus.com/headphones/denon-ah-mm400-p24663/test.html

 
Nice one! First frequency response curve for the MM400.
 

 
This is all I need, I can finally put the MM400 to bed. For reasons of personal taste, I can cross this off my list.
 
With the D600 being the same price as the MM400 as well, surprising, it's made ignoring Denon all the more easier for me.

 

 

[Romani]

   
Nice one! First frequency response curve for the MM400.
 

 
This is all I need, I can finally put the MM400 to bed. For reasons of personal taste, I can cross this off my list.
 
With the D600 being the same price as the MM400 as well, surprising, it's made ignoring Denon all the more easier for me.

 

Glad it helped...I think I can't say I've ever bought or rejected a single pair of headphones off the back of one of these frequency response graphs...for 2 reasons (i) I let my ears do the deciding (ii) I have no idea how to interpret the thing. Feel free to enlighten me as I didn't feel the article explained it sufficiently. 1 audiophile step at a time for me...

 

[provision]

  I still find the isolation pretty dang good, not far below the p7 which still has the best passive isolation I've heard in a closed can.

Sennheiser HD 280pro and B&O H6 both clearly beat the P7 isolation-wise for me. The P7 seemed (I don't have them anymore) to actually amplify low frequency sounds.
 
I guess it has a lot to do with how well a particular headphone fits your head and ears.
 
Also, I listen at what many people here would probably consider unhearably low volumes.

 

[Kabonfaiba]

Quote:

  Glad it helped...I think I can't say I've ever bought or rejected a single pair of headphones off the back of one of these frequency response graphs...for 2 reasons (i) I let my ears do the deciding (ii) I have no idea how to interpret the thing. Feel free to enlighten me as I didn't feel the article explained it sufficiently. 1 audiophile step at a time for me...

 
Well in short, I find frequency response graphs are half the battle. (The other half being expert reviews, comparisons and forum discussion) If the headphones are measured and aligned correctly in the first place - that is! (It helps if you compare other graphs from the same producer, namely, how much smoothing is applied, and where the graph is aligned, in this case 0dB is 1k)
 
For frequency response graphs then; I'm looking at the overall shape of the line, where I'm expecting to see bumps, where these bumps start to rise and fall, and the distance between the peaks and troughs in height and width (Q factor). E.g. I expect to see a gentle roll off from 2k onwards, until it rises for treble.
 
I'm looking to see if 100hz is going to respond louder than 1k - On this graph, the bass is perfectly balanced with the mid-range. For my taste, this is actually bad, as I want a bit of native bass boost of about +4dB, to start increasing at 200hz, to make it more v shaped (fun)
 
According to this graph, any 30hz sub-bass content in your music is going to respond -5dB less than mid-bass content. (This is known as having rolled off bass) which is again something I'm not looking for, as I very much prefer a sub-bass centric sound signature.
 
All this can be cured by EQ of course, but looking at the ear pads, the price, weight, clamping force, the fact I like to listen at high volume, etc. The MM400's mid-centric signature is another thing I can live without.

 

[148124]

https://youtu.be/HLhL8dK_rL8?t=27m12s
 
listen to this on your m400 ;] 
 
anybody's going to rock am ring this year ? ;] let me know

 

[BobMonkhouse]

I'm not experienced enough but I've compared quite a few graphs from innerfidelity for headphones I've heard or own with my perception of their sound characteristics. I'm getting pretty confident in gestimating the ROUGH signatures of headphones based on their published graphs. I can tell that the shown graph for MM400 is not at all what I hear with them. If I haven't heard these cans, based on the graph, I'd guess they have boring rolled off bass with forward thick mids and sometimes shouting female voices, thick bass guitars, thin and dry sounding solo guitars, lacking body in the upper mids, sharp unnatural cymbals and snares. These Denons are the complete opposite - balanced well textured and extended bass with great smooth transition to mids, natural mids with great depth, liquid natural female voices, slightly tamed not very loud treble but with great detail and separation. I agree that the overall energy and volume is not very high, these are not loud but very refined headphones. And that's why they can be perceived as not having good isolation because they don't compete with the external noises well. I don't find them suitable for usage at noisy places. If one wants better portable phones with similar signature, they should consider getting Focal Spirit Classic or Pro.

 

[Romani]

Quote:

Well in short, I find frequency response graphs are half the battle. (The other half being expert reviews, comparisons and forum discussion) If the headphones are measured and aligned correctly in the first place - that is! (It helps if you compare other graphs from the same producer, namely, how much smoothing is applied, and where the graph is aligned, in this case 0dB is 1k)

For frequency response graphs then; I'm looking at the overall shape of the line, where I'm expecting to see bumps, where these bumps start to rise and fall, and the distance between the peaks and troughs in height and width (Q factor). E.g. I expect to see a gentle roll off from 2k onwards, until it rises for treble.

I'm looking to see if 100hz is going to respond louder than 1k - On this graph, the bass is perfectly balanced with the mid-range. For my taste, this is actually bad, as I want a bit of native bass boost of about +4dB, to start increasing at 200hz, to make it more v shaped (fun)

According to this graph, any 30hz sub-bass content in your music is going to respond -5dB less than mid-bass content. (This is known as having rolled off bass) which is again something I'm not looking for, as I very much prefer a sub-bass centric sound signature.

All this can be cured by EQ of course, but looking at the ear pads, the price, weight, clamping force, the fact I like to listen at high volume, etc. The MM400's mid-centric signature is another thing I can live without.

Good stuff, thanks for explaining, very informative See above post though where it seems the graph may not accurately represent how these sound in reality. Are these cans inaccessible to you based on where you reside? Could you not give them a good test drive before you rule them out? These do not sound bland by any means. I was listening to hip hop last night and they thumped the way they should. Just sounds you're after something exciting and these are exactly that but provide lots of clarity whilst doing it.

 

[Bark Snarly]

Sennheiser HD 280pro and B&O H6 both clearly beat the P7 isolation-wise for me. The P7 seemed (I don't have them anymore) to actually amplify low frequency sounds.

I guess it has a lot to do with how well a particular headphone fits your head and ears.

Also, I listen at what many people here would probably consider unhearably low volumes.

I listen at about half volume on my horribly weak phone while out and about which definitely isn't very loud, I can usually hear background noise but it's a good thing when I'm walking around, don't want to get hit by a car I didn't hear or something.

I did a direct comparison with those headphones in Japan against my p7 and the p7 clearly came out ahead for me. The p7 has square cups though and there's a spot behind your ear that it can be hard to get a good deal of especially since the cups don't rotate freely. If they do seal fully they do a really excellent job though, was great during plane flights.

I don't really agree with those freq response results either, the bass isn't rolled off like that to my ear and the treble doesn't have such a huge dip either. Not such a large one at least. Seems like they could have had trouble getting a seal on whatever they used to measure it, would explain the diminished bass and could account for a larger treble dip than is actually there.

 

[Kabonfaiba]

Good stuff, thanks for explaining, very informative

See above post though where it seems the graph may not accurately represent how these sound in reality. Are these cans inaccessible to you based on where you reside? Could you not give them a good test drive before you rule them out? These do not sound bland by any means. I was listening to hip hop last night and they thumped the way they should. Just sounds you're after something exciting and these are exactly that but provide lots of clarity whilst doing it.

 
No where for me to test them in my part of the UK unfortunately, and it's way out of my price limit for a new pair. Although. I'm of the mind that one should spend the extra money where it's due; if it gives you enjoyment!

 
The MM400 should rightfully thump, pretty damn well I suspect. Kick drums and 909/808 etc. actually mid-bass, EDM and such; usually punch around 75-100hz. Lots of headphones can do this. No doubt the Denon does it better than most too. Having a wooden shell is very advantageous to bass tone.
 
Buying used was an option for me, but I couldn't take the risk without something concrete on paper. People write amazing things about £25 headphones, people also write negative things about £1000 headphones. When that happens; numbers seem more reliable to me, a safer impartial judgement.
 
I'm definitely looking for something exciting though, your correct. If only that even! I'll sacrifice the clarity for things like build quality and comfort. I keep having to tell myself that when I look at the HP50 and FSC.
 
Besides I have 2.1 studio monitors for when I want an analytical airy sound signature. For headphones, I just want something that's really comfortable and super fun for a few hours.

 

[Romani]

No where for me to test them in my part of the UK unfortunately, and it's way out of my price limit for a new pair. Although. I'm of the mind that one should spend the extra money where it's due; if it gives you enjoyment!

The MM400 should rightfully thump, pretty damn well I suspect. Kick drums and 909/808 etc. actually mid-bass, EDM and such; usually punch around 75-100hz. Lots of headphones can do this. No doubt the Denon does it better than most too. Having a wooden shell is very advantageous to bass tone.

Buying used was an option for me, but I couldn't take the risk without something concrete on paper. People write amazing things about £25 headphones, people also write negative things about £1000 headphones. When that happens; numbers seem more reliable to me, a safer impartial judgement.

I'm definitely looking for something exciting though, your correct. If only that even! I'll sacrifice the clarity for things like build quality and comfort. I keep having to tell myself that when I look at the HP50 and FSC.

Besides I have 2.1 studio monitors for when I want an analytical airy sound signature. For headphones, I just want something that's really comfortable and super fun for a few hours.

I was in the same predicament as they weren't available where I was either. I bought them based on people's perceptions relative to other cans I previously owned which they were able to test them against.

 

[musikaladin]

  https://youtu.be/HLhL8dK_rL8?t=27m12s
 
listen to this on your m400 ;] 
 
anybody's going to rock am ring this year ? ;] let me know

... I was too lazy getting the 400 from the next room, so I used the AH-D7100...

... love Vodoo People starting from 41min...

 

[musikaladin]

 

Quote:

Well in short, I find frequency response graphs are half the battle. (The other half being expert reviews, comparisons and forum discussion) If the headphones are measured and aligned correctly in the first place - that is! (It helps if you compare other graphs from the same producer, namely, how much smoothing is applied, and where the graph is aligned, in this case 0dB is 1k)

For frequency response graphs then; I'm looking at the overall shape of the line, where I'm expecting to see bumps, where these bumps start to rise and fall, and the distance between the peaks and troughs in height and width (Q factor). E.g. I expect to see a gentle roll off from 2k onwards, until it rises for treble.

I'm looking to see if 100hz is going to respond louder than 1k - On this graph, the bass is perfectly balanced with the mid-range. For my taste, this is actually bad, as I want a bit of native bass boost of about +4dB, to start increasing at 200hz, to make it more v shaped (fun)

According to this graph, any 30hz sub-bass content in your music is going to respond -5dB less than mid-bass content. (This is known as having rolled off bass) which is again something I'm not looking for, as I very much prefer a sub-bass centric sound signature.

All this can be cured by EQ of course, but looking at the ear pads, the price, weight, clamping force, the fact I like to listen at high volume, etc. The MM400's mid-centric signature is another thing I can live without.

Good stuff, thanks for explaining, very informative

See above post though where it seems the graph may not accurately represent how these sound in reality. Are these cans inaccessible to you based on where you reside? Could you not give them a good test drive before you rule them out? These do not sound bland by any means. I was listening to hip hop last night and they thumped the way they should. Just sounds you're after something exciting and these are exactly that but provide lots of clarity whilst doing it.

 

 

Quote:

Well in short, I find frequency response graphs are half the battle. (The other half being expert reviews, comparisons and forum discussion) If the headphones are measured and aligned correctly in the first place - that is! (It helps if you compare other graphs from the same producer, namely, how much smoothing is applied, and where the graph is aligned, in this case 0dB is 1k)

For frequency response graphs then; I'm looking at the overall shape of the line, where I'm expecting to see bumps, where these bumps start to rise and fall, and the distance between the peaks and troughs in height and width (Q factor). E.g. I expect to see a gentle roll off from 2k onwards, until it rises for treble.

I'm looking to see if 100hz is going to respond louder than 1k - On this graph, the bass is perfectly balanced with the mid-range. For my taste, this is actually bad, as I want a bit of native bass boost of about +4dB, to start increasing at 200hz, to make it more v shaped (fun)

According to this graph, any 30hz sub-bass content in your music is going to respond -5dB less than mid-bass content. (This is known as having rolled off bass) which is again something I'm not looking for, as I very much prefer a sub-bass centric sound signature.

All this can be cured by EQ of course, but looking at the ear pads, the price, weight, clamping force, the fact I like to listen at high volume, etc. The MM400's mid-centric signature is another thing I can live without.

Good stuff, thanks for explaining, very informative

See above post though where it seems the graph may not accurately represent how these sound in reality. Are these cans inaccessible to you based on where you reside? Could you not give them a good test drive before you rule them out? These do not sound bland by any means. I was listening to hip hop last night and they thumped the way they should. Just sounds you're after something exciting and these are exactly that but provide lots of clarity whilst doing it.

 
 

  I'm not experienced enough but I've compared quite a few graphs from innerfidelity for headphones I've heard or own with my perception of their sound characteristics. I'm getting pretty confident in gestimating the ROUGH signatures of headphones based on their published graphs. I can tell that the shown graph for MM400 is not at all what I hear with them. If I haven't heard these cans, based on the graph, I'd guess they have boring rolled off bass with forward thick mids and sometimes shouting female voices, thick bass guitars, thin and dry sounding solo guitars, lacking body in the upper mids, sharp unnatural cymbals and snares. These Denons are the complete opposite - balanced well textured and extended bass with great smooth transition to mids, natural mids with great depth, liquid natural female voices, slightly tamed not very loud treble but with great detail and separation. I agree that the overall energy and volume is not very high, these are not loud but very refined headphones. And that's why they can be perceived as not having good isolation because they don't compete with the external noises well. I don't find them suitable for usage at noisy places. If one wants better portable phones with similar signature, they should consider getting Focal Spirit Classic or Pro.

 
I also "read" quite a lot of FRs, be it loudspeakers or headphones. And and compare to what I hear. In many cases it suits... but there are issues...
 
Starting with the equipment used for measurement (damping factor of the amplifier headphone combination, position and type of mics in the dummy-head, dummy-head's material, the texture of its surface and the shape of its artificial ears* a.s.o.) and also the further treatment of the raw data; the final FR graphs are lets say kind of "averedged", whereas there are a number of different approaches for such treatment making it even more difficult to interpret...
 
Furthermore, especially when it is about the fun character of a headphone or loudspeaker there are so many other factors that count in to the final result, as, just to mention one that is very important to me, its ability to create a realistic dynamic illusion...
 
As such, using FR graphs for a preassessment is OK, but in the end I only trust my ears.
 
* Many years ago I tried to do headphone measurements myself. I remember a case where the stiff plastic ears were impeding a proper closure of the pads around the ears leading to a dramatic decline in bass shown in the graph... whereas when I listened to exactly the same headphone, I heard a lot of bass...

 

[Romani]

I guess this is why I've always judged with my ears. They don't lie