Denon AH-7200
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I am curious that [compared to other headphones,] how many of you hear the piano "ringing" too much with the D7200 on this recording, listen from about 3:00 to about 4:00.
Better to find something in HD quality, you can hear the lower quality so it would not help this test
The Ringing Guy
New Head-Fier
Ok here's what I did, I listened to the whole track with the Denons on, then I took them off and put on my Sennheisers and listened to it again. (Sacrilege I know!)
If you're referring to the reverb coming from the piano strings, then this was prevalent throughout the track with both headphones. You could of course hear it more clearly with the Denons, but isn't that what the Denons are supposed to do? Let you hear things more clearly.
I think in this case, it's more down to poor recording. You can't possibly put it down to the Denons and it didn't get worse with regards to ringing at the 3 minute mark, the reverb can be heard from the very start of the track, it gets worse at the 30 sec mark and if you listen from the start to the 30 sec mark you can hear the music carry some distance. So it's bouncing off some walls and being fed back into the microphone causing the distortion in sound. Possibly the grand piano was too small for the recording studio or it wasn't recorded in a studio at all. The distortion is coming from the same side of the piano from where it's open, on the right. That's my take on it.
Yes, I agree this is a problematic recording, but it doesn't ring at all with either of my Stax rigs, even though e-stats in general tend to have some 1-4kHz forwardness. Also, it doesn't ring with the HD650 and HD590. It does ring with the D7200 and TH900 stock versions, and much less with the mods.
If your point is that you don't hear this type of ringing with most music and recording you are listening to, that is setting exactly the point I wanted to arrive to: one cannot take one single context and call out on a flaw of a given headphone (unless describing the limits of the context carefully). However, that doesn't mean there is no problem.
If your point is that you don't hear this type of ringing with most music and recording you are listening to, that is setting exactly the point I wanted to arrive to: one cannot take one single context and call out on a flaw of a given headphone (unless describing the limits of the context carefully). However, that doesn't mean there is no problem
.
The Ringing Guy
New Head-Fier
Yes, I agree this is a problematic recording, but it doesn't ring at all with either of my Stax rigs, even though e-stats in general tend to have some 1-4kHz forwardness. Also, it doesn't ring with the HD650 and HD590. It does ring with the D7200 and TH900 stock versions, and much less with the mods.
If your point is that you don't hear this type of ringing with most music and recording you are listening to, that is setting exactly the point I wanted to arrive to: one cannot take one single context and call out on a flaw of a given headphone (unless describing the limits of the context carefully). However, that doesn't mean there is no problem
My hearing is near to perfect all the way up to 20,000hz, I play piano, guitar, flute and drums. You or I could find fault with every HPS on the planet if we wanted to, even if some of them were perfect and suited our hearing down to the ground. Hearing is different for everyone, it's unique to every person and a lot of the time we only hear what we want to hear, because our brain plays tricks on our perception. If you're hearing ringing with this HPS, I wouldn't recommend that you mod them, as soon as you do you'll lose your warranty, the best way to get rid of the ringing would be to listen at a lower volume or listen to it at a higher quality than mp3 files. The example above isn't ideal for demonstrating what you wish to get across to me about your ringing. I have also tried this experiment on virtual pianos with no distortion or ringing heard. If you could provide me with an example of another instrument that you're experiencing ringing, I'd be interested to hear that. It also needs to be pointed out that each of these HPS in this series would be unique in their own right due to the wooden cups, their size,thickness and curvature. Also how you're powering the headphones could be a factor.
Another thing that needs to be noted is that less than a handful of people out of possibly thousands have raised the issue about ringing. So due to the nature of discrepancies that you find when you work with wood, it's perfectible normal that you'd come across a few HPS that would have this issue, albeit a minor one that is easily fixed by using your warranty, there's no need to mod these beautiful headphones, they're perfect as is.
Fair enough. The subjective ringing problem has got enough publicity by now, I'm glad to close the books on that
.To you
. To me, it's good. With mods, it's even better. But perfect? No...
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The Ringing Guy
New Head-Fier
Fair enough. The subjective ringing problem has got enough publicity by now, I'm glad to close the books on that
To you
When you mod your HPS you'll always lose a part of how they're suppose to sound. People mod because they're looking to improve on a certain aspect, but that comes at a cost in other areas, so of course it's not going to sound perfect to you, simply because you're seeking perfection that never comes, your expectations come at a cost and that's never perfecting perfection. If you lowered your expectations, perfection might come easier to you
Headphones are a hobby, and a very subjective and personal one at that. If there were such a thing as a perfect headphone (and amp, DAC, cables, etc.) and everybody agreed on that then perhaps headphones would cease to be a hobby and the hobby would simply be to listen to music. I was on a long quest to find the perfect headphone which would sound completely natural in such a way that the headphone would disappear and I would only hear music, and do this for every piece of music I threw at them. I owned a set of Elears (I really didn't understand why people liked them), and got to spend a few hours in total listening to the Utopia. This really put things into perspective for me because these 'next generation' and 'world's best' headphones didn't really sound that good to me - and I've got pretty good hearing. Perhaps the problem is that my hearing is too good or, more likely, my expectations are too high. At that time I vowed to stop buying headphones, looking for the perfect pair which doesn't exist. I haven't done too badly because I've only bought 5 or 6 pairs since then. To me the 7200s sound very good, and the more i listen the more I appreciate them. They aren't perfect, but they do a lot of things very well to my ears, and justify their price tag.When you mod your HPS you'll always lose a part of how they're suppose to sound. People mod because they're looking to improve on a certain aspect, but that comes at a cost in other areas, so of course it's not going to sound perfect to you, simply because you're seeking perfection that never comes, your expectations come at a cost and that's never perfecting perfection. If you lowered your expectations, perfection might come easier to you
This was true if someone was making mods just as a form of EQ.
I intend to make mods in order to enable them sound the best they can sound and measure. If you check the mods measurements I published above, they are better then the stock. Also subjectively they sound much better. Not a guaranteed coincidence, but there it is.
Elsewhere I have mentioned mod attempts that resulted in just different sound, but not necessarily better, and I have ended up reverting those. But in the D7200 case there is a clear improvement.
I know this ^ sounds like arrogant and shameless bragging, but yes, the point is that Denon could have done a better job. Those ear pads are a shame for how much they take away from sound quality, as well as the foam dampers to a lesser extent. Otherwise the D7200 is a better design than the TH900, since its flaws can be corrected. I wish Denon would take the input and come up with better factory pads and dampers, but they won't: for this price and volume there is no time and money to obtain the attainable optimum, just a "good enough" or "not obviously flawed" one. Some manufacturers go far further on that line, with a price to match.
If they are perfect for you, you're lucky. I understand it's irritating to read about problems you don't have, but there is reason these issues come up. To be clear, I didn't have an issue per se (e.g. the ringing issue) with the stock D7200, despite a relatively forward sound, but I knew these drivers could sound better, and they do. Other people did have issues and ended up selling it. It's fine, and doesn't make them less good for you.
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Jimster480
Headphoneus Supremus
IF you have spotify the same song on Spotify is most likely of better quality.
I'm glad that other people can listen to the song and hear the resonance too so the issue can be put to bed.
Ludovico is an artist I listen to frequently, I even went to his live performance last weekend. The resonance comes out in this type of music, which is what I initially wrote before being attacked from all sides.
There is no ringing/resonance on my Aeons or PM-2 in this track, every key comes out clearly although this youtube version seems to have some artifacts?
I will compare youtube & Spotify later.
Granted, I quickly searched on youtube to find the Einaudi piece in order to share it, and it's not the best quality.
However, myself I have listened from CD, and it's been ringing/ a bit shiny with that. My CD player is not bright at all and none of my equipment is. Also, I listened from speakers and they sound like my Staxen, so things seem to be pretty consistent.
There is another piece to check against (sorry for the quality) - listen from about 1:15:
If yours doesn't ring, just enjoy the music from the beginning to the end.
If it does, and bothers you enough to do something about it, above I have described a simple, cheap and on-off kludge for it with the thin felt ring placed over the foam damper around the drivers and under the pads.
(OK, I don't want to stress this any more - let's enjoy listening ).
However, myself I have listened from CD, and it's been ringing/ a bit shiny with that. My CD player is not bright at all and none of my equipment is. Also, I listened from speakers and they sound like my Staxen, so things seem to be pretty consistent.
There is another piece to check against (sorry for the quality) - listen from about 1:15:
If yours doesn't ring, just enjoy the music from the beginning to the end
. If it does, and bothers you enough to do something about it, above I have described a simple, cheap and on-off kludge for it with the thin felt ring placed over the foam damper around the drivers and under the pads.
(OK, I don't want to stress this any more - let's enjoy listening
).
That youtube clip is very rough. I have the HDTracks album and it is a very bright track not one I would normally use with my D7200. Sounds so much better on my Beyer Dynamic T1.2's
The Ringing Guy
New Head-Fier
I agree. It's only 240Kbps, the same quality as that jazz track that I posted above, which there isn't the same version of a higher quality to my knowledge on youtube. You need to be listening to tracks in mp3 format that are at least 320Kbps. This is about the same quality as vinyl, minus the richness of vinyl. Mp3 files at 320Kbps that are uploaded to youtube lose quality and they could also have been modified, through gain and/or balance before they've been uploaded.
I'll give you an example, if you listen to this Beatles track first
Now download the same track and open it any player on your computer http://www58.zippyshare.com/v/hkbwIZEP/file.html
It's like night and day, even though both files have been uploaded at 320Kbps.
So the examples given, are not reliable in regards to the quality of their sound that is being sent from youtube to your headphones.
If those same piano tracks above can be provided in FLAC, WAV or MQA I'd be interested in hearing them.
You can use whatever medium you have, the embedded videos just give a clue what to listen. As I said, I listen from CD.
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