[The Ringing Guy]

I brought the D7200 to a meet yesterday and many people really like it.
It was the favorite headphone to pass around for 3-4 guys, the other was my Oppo PM-2.
But honestly a few guys really love the D7200.

We determined something, and I understand this thread more now. The Ringing is not so easy to hear if you are mid 30s+ (atleast for most of the guys there).
Us young guys (I'm 27) can easily hear it and are annoyed by it almost immediately when the ringing comes out in any song.
Once we isolated the ringing with a virtual keyboard (organ) the older guys all lined up to hear the ringing. They could all hear it if they tried but it was subtle for them yet striking for us.
https://virtualpiano.net/ <-- The keyboard we used, about 75% of the way through it will make the noise around 4 keys in varying degrees.

If there was no ringing in this headphone it would be really nice, so I can understand why some people really love it since they are older / unable to hear the ringing unless they look for it.

You've got to have a faulty HPS. I would recommend that you use your warranty and have it replaced. I'm telling you this because I'm a lot younger than you, (18) my ears are trained and there's no ringing coming from the HPS that I own or another that my sister owns.

I've also read this thread in its entirety and you seem to be repeating yourself by offering up different scenarios just like the one above, except the last time you were saying that you handed over the same HPS to your girlfriend and she could also hear the ringing from your HPS.

Maybe it's time for you to stop coming on here talking about your ringing issue and actually do something about it, sorry to be blunt, I'm just telling it like it is. It's getting annoying because you've been going on about it for pages and pages on this thread. You're relentless, is it ever going to stop? No, probably not. Not until you get it fixed and stop complaining about the constant ringing that you're experiencing. If I was you, what I'd do, if I was experiencing ringing in my HPS, I'd take them off, send them away and get them fixed. Ringing in your ears can damage your hearing so I don't know why you're continuing to use them and even encouraging other people to try your HPS so that they can experience the same experience that you're experiencing.

On a brighter note, I love these headphones and you would have to pry them off my cold dead body to get them off of me.

 

[Jimster480]

You've got to have a faulty HPS. I would recommend that you use your warranty and have it replaced. I'm telling you this because I'm a lot younger than you, (18) my ears are trained and there's no ringing coming from the HPS that I own or another that my sister owns.

I've also read this thread in its entirety and you seem to be repeating yourself by offering up different scenarios just like the one above, except the last time you were saying that you handed over the same HPS to your girlfriend and she could also hear the ringing from your HPS.

Maybe it's time for you to stop coming on here talking about your ringing issue and actually do something about it, sorry to be blunt, I'm just telling it like it is. It's getting annoying because you've been going on about it for pages and pages on this thread. You're relentless, is it ever going to stop? No, probably not. Not until you get it fixed and stop complaining about the constant ringing that you're experiencing. If I was you, what I'd do, if I was experiencing ringing in my HPS, I'd take them off, send them away and get them fixed. Ringing in your ears can damage your hearing so I don't know why you're continuing to use them and even encouraging other people to try your HPS so that they can experience the same experience that you're experiencing.

On a brighter note, I love these headphones and you would have to pry them off my cold dead body to get them off of me.

IT IS NOT A FAULTY HP. This LITERALLY APPEARS ON EVERY CSD FOR THIS HEADPHONE. EVERY SINGLE TEST, give the bullsh1t a rest already.

The last post I made explained that I can understand how some people can like this because if you can't hear the ringing/it doesn't bother you then its fine. Some guys at the meet loved it and the ringing didn't bother them.
But it definitely exists, if you can't hear it... then your gear is utter trash or you don't listen to any music with ~5k tones or you have ruined your ears and you cannot hear it.

 

[zolkis]

I also hear the elevated midrange, but people have different sensitivity to it.

To give another try at this, I have listened (and measured) the D7200 again, now including the case without the wooden cups. It sounded way much better, no midrange bump, actually it became bass-heavy with lower distortion and far better subjective sound. The D7200 optimal design seems to be something like the Klipsch HP-3 or ZMF Auteur. Looks like others are converging to the same design, when driven by sound quality.

So obviously the wooden cups are reflecting midrange waves more efficiently and there must be also secondary sources due to wood resonances. that does elevate the mids in a dome shape on the FR. On the TH900 the "dome" is narrower and with higher peak, on the more shallow cups like D7200 looks like it's wider and a bit milder. It likely also depends on the wood type.

It may be that variance in wooden cups is another source for the D7200 confusion.

For closed headphone cups, I'd go with an irregular internal shape like the Sony R10 and probably with larger cups than the D7200. However, the brake on the D7200 IMHO is more like the pads than the cups. However, with open back the pads matter less.

I wonder if replacement cups are available for the D7200 .

 

[drwlf]

@The Ringing Guy

 

[ngatts]

IT IS NOT A FAULTY HP. This LITERALLY APPEARS ON EVERY CSD FOR THIS HEADPHONE. EVERY SINGLE TEST, give the bullsh1t a rest already.

The last post I made explained that I can understand how some people can like this because if you can't hear the ringing/it doesn't bother you then its fine. Some guys at the meet loved it and the ringing didn't bother them.
But it definitely exists, if you can't hear it... then your gear is utter trash or you don't listen to any music with ~5k tones or you have ruined your ears and you cannot hear it.

Can you recommend any particular songs (and timestamps) where I can try to hear the ringing? I'm in my mid 30's so maybe I just can't hear it on mine. On foobar's tone generator I can hear up to about 17khz.

 

[Jimster480]

Can you recommend any particular songs (and timestamps) where I can try to hear the ringing? I'm in my mid 30's so maybe I just can't hear it on mine. On foobar's tone generator I can hear up to about 17khz.

Mostly any piano track especially Chopin pieces by say Lang Lang (because the recordings are good).

Also:

https://virtualpiano.net/

^ In the 8th set of keys its easiest to bring it out. 7th also depending on your gear (only white keys).

If I decide to unbox my D7200 again before I sell it, I will test for songs specifically. But since I just boxed it for a meet the other day and I don't plan to ever listen to it, I'm not sure if I will unbox it.

 

[krenky]

Just to confirm that I had chance to test the D7200 for couple of hours only thanks to my good friend.
We neither could hear any ringing when listen to some piano songs although we tried to focus on this issue.

I would recommend if something like that is the issue to do following:

* Fix them via your warranty

* Fix or modify them something like that could be some mechanical issue

* Sell them

* Keep them and use the right EQ setting to minimize the ringing

I am waiting for some good deal to purchase these beauties soon. They sound superb.

 

[xinghui0711]

I have been using D7200s since day 1 and not experienced any ringing( I'm 22 with minimal hearing loss).

 

[Jimster480]

Just to confirm that I had chance to test the D7200 for couple of hours only thanks to my good friend.
We neither could hear any ringing when listen to some piano songs although we tried to focus on this issue.

I would recommend if something like that is the issue to do following:

* Fix them via your warranty

* Fix or modify them something like that could be some mechanical issue

* Sell them

* Keep them and use the right EQ setting to minimize the ringing

I am waiting for some good deal to purchase these beauties soon. They sound superb.

Mine are for sale if you want.

They definitely have ringing, its 100% apparent, the pair is not defective.
All CSD graphs show the ringing, since these headphones are basically Fostex x00 / TH-900 / etc the driver also experiences ringing in all the other headphones which are based on this driver.
If you cannot hear the ringing then that is completely fine and you can enjoy the headphones without issue.

If you use them with a high output impedance tube amp its also possible to not hear it since the impedance mismatch will completely fck up the sound. These headphones are sensitive to impedance and have impedance response and voltage swings.

 

[Beagle]

Its got great vocals and instrument separation.
I listened to an entire week of Drum & Bass / House / Future Trance and it was wonderful.

I also listen to Jazz, Classical (Strings & Piano) aswell as Rap & Hip-Hop + R&B.

Honestly the MM400 is better than the D7200 across multiple Genres. The D7200 excels in Rap/Hip-Hop but even in R&B the Vocals can bring out that nasty ringing constantly which makes the headphone very fatiguing to listen to.

The D7200 has a "concert" sound which means that the Bass is emphasized as this is how a live concert would sound from a typical rock/pop artist.
However in an orchestra or at a live jazz performance, bass is not emphasized and strings are more focused or surrounding Piano. Therefore something like the D7200 sounds very unnatural.


The D7200 with this sort of major flaw (ringing) and overly recessed highs (just look at the frequency response & CSD charts available via google) is definitely not worth the price when there are better offerings.
As you said this is upto peoples tastes in music too, but if you cannot hear the 2.5k ringing or the recessed highs it might be that your hearing is damaged honestly. For me it came out in 10 minutes, and my wife didn't notice it at first but within about 20 minutes of playing her Casio Organ with it on she asked me about it because she was starting to get a headache (I didn't want to tell her, to see if she would hear it).
Then I told her and she heard it every time.

Absolute nonsense. Don't hear anything of the sort. Ringing? Recessed highs? Maybe your headphone is defective or it's your ears that are ringing, or you have it turned up to 11, or all of the above?

 

[The Ringing Guy]

Anything else nasty you want to say about these? Get it out of your system now so we don't have to come back here to hear your regurgitation of what you've already been spewing out about these for pages now.

If they have ringing and you can hear the ringing, then they're defective. The CSD graphs aren't reliable as they haven't been made in a controlled environment or in an anechoic chamber, so you need to stop referring to those charts as some form of validation for the ringing that you're experiencing in your own HPS.

Also I can't believe that you would be willing to offer your "ringing" HPS for sale to another member on here, but it doesn't surprise me either seeing as you're willing to endanger other people's hearing by offering listening sessions of your "ringing" HPS.

 

[Beagle]

Does it sound anything like this?

 

[zolkis]

It bothers me that different people are using the word "ringing" with different meaning, and in different context.
There is a small ridge on the D7200 CSD centered around 2500 Hz and about 1000 Hz wide, but it's quite minor, nothing like the Z1R ridge, and even that doesn't sound like "ringing".

I noticed the D7200 foam damper (around the driver) is about 1.5 mm thinner than the one on the TH900, and it is also smaller diameter, and the driver works in a smaller volume, whereas the driver efficiency is nearly the same. As a result, the D7200 damper lets more midrange reflections through from the cups. The character of the reflections also depend on the wood sample and may vary from headphone to headphone. Of course one could try to damp the cups even more, but then more muffled midrange would come through, but the problem is still not solved. To solve the problem, either the cups need to be opened (like the Klipsch Heritage HP-3), or the damper needs adjustments.

Since the TH900 dampers are replaceable, and not glued on the housing like with the D200, I have tested the TH900 with a lot of foam and felt dampers, and there've been wild differences in FR.



I am 100% sure similar changes are possible with the D7200 and these include "fixing" the mild midrange energy surplus the D7200 exhibits.
To prove it, I tried a ~1.5 mm thick wool felt ring (72 mm diameter with 48 mm hole) put over the D7200 damper. While this is suboptimal, it still improved the midrange "issue" a lot. I mean, a lot - subjectively speaking. The FR didn't change much, but the spectrogram calmed down.

Violet: stock D7200
Yellow: with felt damper extension
Green: D7200 + felt damper extension + modded Stax 007 ear pads


The green config sounds much, much better then the others, with the least amount of "ringing". I am sure I could further improve this, if I changed the damper completely with a thicker/denser material (e.g. trimmed TH900 dampers, or thicker felt dampers. Felt sounds more musical than foam. I tested 2 types of felt, one was markedly better. I guess it would not be easy to find the optimum for a given headphone.

Looks like wood has some variance in acoustic properties for headphone cups, I'd rather use carbon fiber or pulps for forming a cup for closed headphones, they are just more consistent.
Also, the driver loading used in the D7200 and TH900 (all TX00 family) is so sensitive to the foam damper that it's unbelievable. Not even with synthetic foam can they make two sound the same (I have 3 damper pairs for Fostex, all sound different).

With this kind of variance it kind of loses sense to talk about subjective experiences with the D7200, as they might be wildly different, as this thread illustrates it well.
The D7200 does have a character that can be talked about, but it comes in many flavors, including some flawed ones.

To the disappointed, I suggest investing a few bucks into wool felt sheets and a circular cutter... a few minutes work may make a huge difference.

 

[Jimster480]

Anything else nasty you want to say about these? Get it out of your system now so we don't have to come back here to hear your regurgitation of what you've already been spewing out about these for pages now.

If they have ringing and you can hear the ringing, then they're defective. The CSD graphs aren't reliable as they haven't been made in a controlled environment or in an anechoic chamber, so you need to stop referring to those charts as some form of validation for the ringing that you're experiencing in your own HPS.

Also I can't believe that you would be willing to offer your "ringing" HPS for sale to another member on here, but it doesn't surprise me either seeing as you're willing to endanger other people's hearing by offering listening sessions of your "ringing" HPS.

Quit your crying already, I'm sick of people on this forum that are such snowflakes they cannot handle anything but positive reviews.
No wonder audio companies just get away with nonsense day in and day out and people just eat up their overpriced products...... Its because of people like you.

If people keep talking to me and arguing with me I will say the same thing as I have said before, my experiences won't change just because you don't like my experience. This is called life.

Does it sound anything like this?

Lmao it sounds nothing like that. That would be totally horrible.
Its a resonance, almost like a little bell but I wouldn't call it that pronounced.

IT does depend on your hearing and if it bothers you, if you were in the same room with me I'd be willing to bet $100 that I can make anyones pair make the same noise. Although as @zolkis said its possible that its more pronounced on some units due to variances in the wood used for the cups.

 

[The Ringing Guy]

Quit your crying already, I'm sick of people on this forum that are such snowflakes they cannot handle anything but positive reviews.
No wonder audio companies just get away with nonsense day in and day out and people just eat up their overpriced products...... Its because of people like you.

If people keep talking to me and arguing with me I will say the same thing as I have said before, my experiences won't change just because you don't like my experience. This is called life.


Lmao it sounds nothing like that. That would be totally horrible.
Its a resonance, almost like a little bell but I wouldn't call it that pronounced.

IT does depend on your hearing and if it bothers you, if you were in the same room with me I'd be willing to bet $100 that I can make anyones pair make the same noise. Although as @zolkis said its possible that its more pronounced on some units due to variances in the wood used for the cups.

Snowflake eh? Grow up and stop calling people names. If you can't take criticism of your own constant criticism, then maybe you shouldn't be posting on forums offering up your page after page of your negative experience with this product and/or other products.

I was more than happy to part with my money for this product, no complaints from me in that regard. If it's overpriced for you, you might want to consider to stop coming to forums like these because you're always going to get "people like me" calling "people like you" out.

Out of all the posts I've read on this thread, and believe me, I've read them all. Yours came across as the most bitchy, not because it was just one negative post, but rather a flurry of negative posts that eventually turned into pages of them. It's disturbing to say the least, that for someone that has an issue with a set of headphones that you continue to go to the lengths that you have, and even more disturbing that you're bitching to anyone here that will listen, instead of doing what any normal person would do in your situation, and that is, use your warranty and get them fixed and/or replaced.

It's a fairly simple process, far simpler than making post after post and basically saying the same thing OVER AND OVER AGAIN, go back over your posts and count how many times you've mentioned the word "ringing". Yea it's a lot, and annoying.