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DENAFRIPS 'ARES' R2R discrete ladder DAC - close up view

Discussion in 'Dedicated Source Components' started by pitbul34, Jan 28, 2017.
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  1. ToroFiestaSol
    Great project you have!
    Yes, that's a better explanation, my english is limited so I thank you for the detailed post.
    Yes, a NOS R2R DAC with a network player inside, something like a R2R version of the PS Audio Directstream DAC, but with chinese price :D
    Of course that thing does not exist, but someone can invent it, you never know who is reading :)
    I always express my "wishes" because there's always someone with a company reading the forums, so if my petition is shared and approved by more people, this hypothetic product can become a reality.
  2. Energy
    It sounds only a step up above optical, based on what i'm hearing.

    Optical and Ethernet according to you offers full galvanic isolation. It may offer streaming benefits, but in general it still needs to be converted to a format the DAC accepts before digital decoding. The only format is which is I2S..

    The internal unit of whatever futuristic DAC you're wishing for must have a good converter inside converting Ethernet to I2S. The problem here is it still must go through a receiver does it not? So in general it's not much different than other formats. It may not be affected by output noise (like with optical), but it still suffers from input receiver noise & time domain errors. The converter also must have well implemented clocks prior to being sent to the R2R Ladder (or DAC chip). If this is the case already for all things, can't we just say that we wish for a better input converter in general?

    Unless the Ethernet input you're talking about is actually the RJ45 Ethernet connector, then like the HDMI input standardized by PS Audio, both are I2S format that still suffers from noise & time domain errors (jitter) and needs proper conversion.

    Either you rely on a quality DDC, a quality input, or a quality output.

    I'll look more into the Ethernet port for PS Audio DirectStream and see what I find.
  3. Thenewguy007

    I definitely would like to hear your comparison when you get them all in the same room!
  4. PitBul34
    Heavy metal test #018

  5. rudra

    For me it is cheaper to buy from taiwan directly than from Singapore.
  6. Currawong Contributor
    I've had various NOS DACs here, and they all sounded clearer when they were fed high-res or iZotope was used to up-sample before sending the data to the DAC. I've measured the distortion of NOS DACs, and it is within the audible band. I used to believe as you do about impulse responses, but after researching sufficiently I now understand why it is wrong. DSD may have a high sampling rate, but it is only 1-bit. For various reasons, it is technically worse than PCM.
    What is truly important is not DSD performance, but how well a DAC performs with CD-quality music. The vast majority of music out there is 16/44.1 so if a DAC can't perform well with that, then it is a waste of time even considering it IMO. [​IMG]
    PaganDL likes this.
  7. guymrob

    ​Most of DACs in the market are capable of doing good performance D/A conversion, even cheap off selves DACs like BB, AKM, Sabre and CL. All DACs uses OS (Over Sampling) digital filters that have a degree of ringing, therefore they come in many different type, fast, slow, ultra-slow, some even have their own design and different characteristics. All these have some coloration that added in the music. Depending on the users preference, they can select the type of digital filters that suit to their tastes but most of time, they cannot be bypassed, it will look bad in their specs. OS actually make the sound 'cleaner' and not clearer. This has some impact the micro-dynamics. Some describe NOS has organic, natural and real sounding, devoid of any form of coloration.
    The design of DSD was to get rid of the over sampling digital filters, the major cause of ringing, even with 1 bit sampling at 2.82MHz or above, the specs in the audio band is comparable to a hi-res PCM. It is only above 22.5kHz, the noise shaping effect starts to decrease, and SNR will degrade. Many found DSD sounds more 'analogue' than PCM and this has been reported by many users over the years. 
    Those who have heard NOS swear by heart they never want to go back to OS, even me, who have spend most of time listening to OS since the inception of CDs. Most manufacturers who do NOS DACs don't emphasize on specs but subjectively listening, while others emphasize heavily on specs, getting the highest SNR and lowest distortion. In the end of day, it still boil down to listening and the consumers can ultimately make their choice. 
  8. PitBul34
    It's not true. I'm former R2R tube NOS DAC user who migrated to modern R2R discrete ladder OS system. Some time ago i've owned famous cult MHDT 'Havana' R2R tube DAC (2x BB PCM56K R2R chips in NOS mode):
    In my setup: on the top right corner:
    It was the very pleasure sounded 'analog like' old school $2000 NOS DAC. But $700 Denafrips 'Ares' sounded much better for me.
  9. guymrob

    Nice setup, I can see you are a analog guy... Music is matter of personal taste and generally most of colleagues who listen to NOS DAC coupled with tube amps, it brings out the analog sound, my setup consists of Holo Spring NOS DAC and VTL tube amp...[​IMG][/IMG]
  10. slex
    I got a feeling Ares will rape both my mimby and MHDT.:grinning:
  11. Energy
    So many people quote pictures without deleting them.. i had to scroll a bunch.

    Anyways, great explanation guymrob.

    Tube DAC's intrigue me.
    nick n and joseph69 like this.
  12. lukeap69
    I have an ARES incoming from Vinshine audio. I will compare it with my Spring L3 and DAC-19. Even if it will not dislodge my Holo Spring in my LS50 rig, I will use it in my bedroom HP rig unless I really dislike it which based on reports will not be the case. :grin:
  13. PitBul34
    New seller on Ebay, $725:
  14. lukeap69

    Not bad with free shipping. Vinshine can probably match that though...
  15. slex
    Anyone has any balance xlr cable to recommend?:grinning:
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