[ToroFiestaSol]

   
You are talking about a networkplayer. So you want a networkplayer with upgradeable NOS R2R dac. Not sure if they exist.
I can imagine you don't want aditional boxes, that is one of the reasons I did build my own networkplayer, for now NOT based on R2R, but that probably will change in the near future 

 
Btw, why would one want a box which converts from I2S and AES to USB?
 
Ethernet itselve is ONLY the transport. It doesn't include some sort of audio format which directly can be imported into dac chip. So, if talking about a networkplayer (see my avatar and/or link)
you are talking about a device which receives music files from NAS or other network source, or direct stream from internet like Tidal HIFI. You need a device which converts all this stuff into a format your dac understands, mostly I2S signals.
 
In my case I did build it around a Raspberry Pi. There are many networkplayers available, all build around a low-computing device which directly provides the signals used by the dac chip(s).
 
Hope this clears things up a bit 

 
Cheers 

 
Alex

 
Great project you have!
Yes, that's a better explanation, my english is limited so I thank you for the detailed post.
Yes, a NOS R2R DAC with a network player inside, something like a R2R version of the PS Audio Directstream DAC, but with chinese price
Of course that thing does not exist, but someone can invent it, you never know who is reading
I always express my "wishes" because there's always someone with a company reading the forums, so if my petition is shared and approved by more people, this hypothetic product can become a reality.

 

[Energy]

It sounds only a step up above optical, based on what i'm hearing.

Optical and Ethernet according to you offers full galvanic isolation. It may offer streaming benefits, but in general it still needs to be converted to a format the DAC accepts before digital decoding. The only format is which is I2S..

The internal unit of whatever futuristic DAC you're wishing for must have a good converter inside converting Ethernet to I2S. The problem here is it still must go through a receiver does it not? So in general it's not much different than other formats. It may not be affected by output noise (like with optical), but it still suffers from input receiver noise & time domain errors. The converter also must have well implemented clocks prior to being sent to the R2R Ladder (or DAC chip). If this is the case already for all things, can't we just say that we wish for a better input converter in general?

Unless the Ethernet input you're talking about is actually the RJ45 Ethernet connector, then like the HDMI input standardized by PS Audio, both are I2S format that still suffers from noise & time domain errors (jitter) and needs proper conversion.

Either you rely on a quality DDC, a quality input, or a quality output.

I'll look more into the Ethernet port for PS Audio DirectStream and see what I find.

 

[Thenewguy007]

Great i will be having multibit(mimby), NOS ( Mhdt 1541A ) and coming R2R ( Ares) to compare

But all will come down to implementation and finished construction and lastly your own personal taste of music.

I definitely would like to hear your comparison when you get them all in the same room!

 

[PitBul34]

Heavy metal test #018
 

 

[rudra]

Still work out est. US$60 cheaper through http://www.vinshineaudio.com

For me it is cheaper to buy from taiwan directly than from Singapore.

 

[Currawong]

 

It's the other way around. A square wave is the sum of multiple harmonics. A DSD "impulse" isn't in music either. Multiple harmonics do not sum together in music to form anything like a square wave, unless the music is clipping, which is a different issue. I think the issue you may be closest to is that of aliasing close to the Nyquist frequency, which is a filter issue. 

Anyhow, whether or not a DAC can accept DSD 512 is kind of crazy IMO. There is effectively no music of that resolution that didn't start off as DXD, which is a more sane choice if you don't mind half-a-gigabyte+ per music file.

The impulse response is the measure how high the amplitude of peak and the dispersion. If all energy is concentrated at the peak, less dispersion (ringing) occurred. This translates to better transient response and less distortion. DSD is better because it doesn't use over sampling digital filter, so it doesn't suffer from this issue. If we bypass the over sampling digital filter in PCM we can have a good impulse response but drawback is there's going to have noise, especially 44.1k which very near to the 20k audio band. DSD sampling at least 2.82MHz and above, so at that high frequency it is easy to filter with a gentle low pass filter.

To avoid PCM going to the over sampling digital filter some convert 44.1k to DSD on the fly inside the PC. Many reported it sound more 'analog' then playing back PCM directly. PS Audio DirectStream DAC is one example. Holo Spring has two option, play in NOS mode (no over sampling digital filter but higher noise ) or use the internal hardware to convert PCM to DSD256 on the fly.

But trust me, I still prefer to run in NOS mode, even in 44.1k, everything sound so natural and real. You have to listen for yourself then only you know how good it is!

 
I've had various NOS DACs here, and they all sounded clearer when they were fed high-res or iZotope was used to up-sample before sending the data to the DAC. I've measured the distortion of NOS DACs, and it is within the audible band. I used to believe as you do about impulse responses, but after researching sufficiently I now understand why it is wrong. DSD may have a high sampling rate, but it is only 1-bit. For various reasons, it is technically worse than PCM.
 
What is truly important is not DSD performance, but how well a DAC performs with CD-quality music. The vast majority of music out there is 16/44.1 so if a DAC can't perform well with that, then it is a waste of time even considering it IMO. 

 

[guymrob]

   
I've had various NOS DACs here, and they all sounded clearer when they were fed high-res or iZotope was used to up-sample before sending the data to the DAC. I've measured the distortion of NOS DACs, and it is within the audible band. I used to believe as you do about impulse responses, but after researching sufficiently I now understand why it is wrong. DSD may have a high sampling rate, but it is only 1-bit. For various reasons, it is technically worse than PCM.
 
What is truly important is not DSD performance, but how well a DAC performs with CD-quality music. The vast majority of music out there is 16/44.1 so if a DAC can't perform well with that, then it is a waste of time even considering it IMO. 

​Most of DACs in the market are capable of doing good performance D/A conversion, even cheap off selves DACs like BB, AKM, Sabre and CL. All DACs uses OS (Over Sampling) digital filters that have a degree of ringing, therefore they come in many different type, fast, slow, ultra-slow, some even have their own design and different characteristics. All these have some coloration that added in the music. Depending on the users preference, they can select the type of digital filters that suit to their tastes but most of time, they cannot be bypassed, it will look bad in their specs. OS actually make the sound 'cleaner' and not clearer. This has some impact the micro-dynamics. Some describe NOS has organic, natural and real sounding, devoid of any form of coloration.
 
The design of DSD was to get rid of the over sampling digital filters, the major cause of ringing, even with 1 bit sampling at 2.82MHz or above, the specs in the audio band is comparable to a hi-res PCM. It is only above 22.5kHz, the noise shaping effect starts to decrease, and SNR will degrade. Many found DSD sounds more 'analogue' than PCM and this has been reported by many users over the years. 
 
Those who have heard NOS swear by heart they never want to go back to OS, even me, who have spend most of time listening to OS since the inception of CDs. Most manufacturers who do NOS DACs don't emphasize on specs but subjectively listening, while others emphasize heavily on specs, getting the highest SNR and lowest distortion. In the end of day, it still boil down to listening and the consumers can ultimately make their choice. 

 

[PitBul34]

Those who have heard NOS swear by heart they never want to go back to OS

It's not true. I'm former R2R tube NOS DAC user who migrated to modern R2R discrete ladder OS system. Some time ago i've owned famous cult MHDT 'Havana' R2R tube DAC (2x BB PCM56K R2R chips in NOS mode):
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
In my setup: on the top right corner:
 

 
It was the very pleasure sounded 'analog like' old school $2000 NOS DAC. But $700 Denafrips 'Ares' sounded much better for me.

 

[guymrob]

It's not true. I'm former R2R tube NOS DAC user who migrated to modern R2R discrete ladder OS system. Some time ago i've owned famous cult MHDT 'Havana' R2R tube DAC (2x BB PCM56K R2R chips in NOS mode):

























In my setup: on the top right corner:




It was the very pleasure sounded 'analog like' old school $2000 NOS DAC. But $700 Denafrips 'Ares' sounded much better for me.

Nice setup, I can see you are a analog guy... Music is matter of personal taste and generally most of colleagues who listen to NOS DAC coupled with tube amps, it brings out the analog sound, my setup consists of Holo Spring NOS DAC and VTL tube amp...

[/IMG]

 

[slex]

It's not true. I'm former R2R tube NOS DAC user who migrated to modern R2R discrete ladder OS system. Some time ago i've owned famous cult MHDT 'Havana' R2R tube DAC (2x BB PCM56K R2R chips in NOS mode):

























In my setup: on the top right corner:




It was the very pleasure sounded 'analog like' old school $2000 NOS DAC. But $700 Denafrips 'Ares' sounded much better for me.

I got a feeling Ares will rape both my mimby and MHDT.

 

[Energy]

So many people quote pictures without deleting them.. i had to scroll a bunch.

Anyways, great explanation guymrob.

Tube DAC's intrigue me.

 

[lukeap69]

I have an ARES incoming from Vinshine audio. I will compare it with my Spring L3 and DAC-19. Even if it will not dislodge my Holo Spring in my LS50 rig, I will use it in my bedroom HP rig unless I really dislike it which based on reports will not be the case.

 

[PitBul34]

New seller on Ebay, $725:
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARES-24Bit-384K-DSD-Digital-audio-decoder-DAC-decoder-supports-the-DSD256-/282350629368

 

[lukeap69]

New seller on Ebay, $725:


 


http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARES-24Bit-384K-DSD-Digital-audio-decoder-DAC-decoder-supports-the-DSD256-/282350629368

 


Not bad with free shipping. Vinshine can probably match that though...

 

[slex]

Anyone has any balance xlr cable to recommend?