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DENAFRIPS 'ARES' R2R discrete ladder DAC - close up view

Discussion in 'Dedicated Source Components' started by pitbul34, Jan 28, 2017.
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  1. guymrob

    The impulse response is the measure how high the amplitude of peak and the dispersion. If all energy is concentrated at the peak, less dispersion (ringing) occurred. This translates to better transient response and less distortion. DSD is better because it doesn't use over sampling digital filter, so it doesn't suffer from this issue. If we bypass the over sampling digital filter in PCM we can have a good impulse response but drawback is there's going to have noise, especially 44.1k which very near to the 20k audio band. DSD sampling at least 2.82MHz and above, so at that high frequency it is easy to filter with a gentle low pass filter.

    To avoid PCM going to the over sampling digital filter some convert 44.1k to DSD on the fly inside the PC. Many reported it sound more 'analog' then playing back PCM directly. PS Audio DirectStream DAC is one example. Holo Spring has two option, play in NOS mode (no over sampling digital filter but higher noise ) or use the internal hardware to convert PCM to DSD256 on the fly.

    But trust me, I still prefer to run in NOS mode, even in 44.1k, everything sound so natural and real. You have to listen for yourself then only you know how good it is!
     
  2. slex
    Great i will be having multibit(mimby), NOS ( Mhdt 1541A ) and coming R2R ( Ares) to compare:grinning:

    But all will come down to implementation and finished construction and lastly your own personal taste of music.
     
  3. lukeap69

    That would be nice! Where did you buy your Ares and how much?
     
  4. slex
    http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=247059.0

    He does export.
     
  5. lukeap69

    Thanks.
     
  6. guymrob
    I wish Ares can seriously offer NOS, no harm in doing it, just have an option to switch to NOS, it gives users another mode of sound. Then I consider getting it for my desktop DAC with my Sennisher HD650
     
  7. rudra
    You can also purchase it direct from Taiwan.
     
  8. Energy

    I wanted the same but realize they were all OS unless deciding to go for their Terminator model which unfortunately will be well over $4,000 most likely.

    I think right now it's a give or take regarding R2R, DSD, NOS, and Linearity implementations. The Holo Audio Spring surprisingly does well on noise with SNR of -126dB for NOS. it's patented linear compensation works great too not to add it's support for DSD using an additional set of R2R ladders.

    The Metrum Pavane on the other hand doesn't need to compensate on Linearity loss when it's FPGA solves this issue right off the bat by dividing up MSB (most significant bit) from the LSB (least signicant bit). The smaller signal at low level which would usually cause irregularities no longer becomes an issue. This gives the Pavane a measured SNR down to -145dB. The issue with Metrum however is that like Schiiit, it doesn't play DSD.

    Considering it's one or the other at this point in time, it would be nice to see a future R2R NOS DAC that includes FPGA (for non-linearity and digital noise concerns) in which also handles DSD. Considering how Metrum Acoustics now have Transient DAC TWO modules on their new flagship the Adagio which has double the R2R ladder (2x24 bit vs 1x16 bit per module), this time with a built in FPGA (per module) for a shorter signal path, it would be a nice touch to have those ladders support DSD processing.

    Perhaps Holo Audio's next DAC, the May DAC will have FPGA or some implementation that reduces digital noise further in a way where they don't need to compensate for linearity loss while keeping their support for DSD.

    I have doubts Metrum will introduce DSD support anytime soon though. My guess is that they'll implement it roughly the same time other companies like Schiit feels DSD is popular enough. Right now there's not a whole lot of DSD files available.

    Personally all I have is PCM files but the main reason why I ever bought into DAC's like Matrix X-Sabre and Holo Audio Spring is their support for DSD playback. It was a "Just In Case" impulse response. Now that I've owned them for months, I've realize I won't listen to DSD anytime soon thus the switch over to better PCM based R2R NOS DAC's like the Metrum Pavane. Everyone's different.
     
  9. ToroFiestaSol
    I would like to see an upgradable R2R NOS DAC, with ethernet input. Something like the PS Audio Directstream units but  NOS R2R.
    I don't like additional boxes (I2S to USB or AES to USB), and ethernet is fully isolated, so no need for fancy boxes.
     
    Also, they chinese makers should improve aesthetics, their products looks mmmm...chinese? (in the pejorative sense)
    Just think about it, good looking, fully balanced, upgradable R2R NOS DAC, without volume control and with ethernet connection, under 2000usd, that should be a winner, and believe, they CAN do it.
     
    Why ethernet? 
    For example, Holo DAC needs to use I2S to sound it's best, so you need Singxer SU-1. Holo costs 1700usd and Singxer costs 400usd, so the DAC at it's full potential costs 2100$, no 1700$.
    I'ts better to put that 400$ into the DAC with the ethernet board, and boom, new legend is born.
     
  10. PitBul34
    What you mean 'good looking'? F.e., i like minimalistic style and simple forms. Ares looks like a Spartan and it's good looking, imo: 
     
    189ca8a777510d3ee4e23ec896523bba08969f5f.jpg
    16ba2c3eeaf6144c754c968495ebf7e1623dd9c0.jpg
     
    rodya777 likes this.
  11. Energy

    I would agree with you partially due to my limited understanding.

    An upgradable R2R NOS DAC would be heavenly. One with an Ethernet port as you suggested for galvanic isolation streaming, however saving money on the DDC (digital to digital converter), one still must spend on a NAS would they not?

    Like if I used my MacBook Pro I could simply plug the USB into a DDC and into the DAC. The inconvienence there would be the DDC in between. However isn't a NAS an extra unit on it's own accord? Something like a MicroRendu or am I understanding it all wrong? Also even if it's isolated like how optical is, wouldn't there still be time domain issues such as jitter? Does Ethernet/streaming implementations consist of asynchronous corrections or other ways to get around these issues?
     
  12. ToroFiestaSol
     
    Yes, you must have a NAS or a PC with ethernet ports, but you also have like 9093409 DACs on the market with USB inputs, so variety is welcomed.
    Not everyone has a Macbook or a laptop, some people (more than what you think of, me included) have a NAS or a desktop PC.
    Ethernet provides the best isolation, so it "sounds" better than any other type of input. It's the superior one.
     
     
    Regarding the looks, I was thinking of Holo with it's garish looking copper orange sides and goofy screen.
    The Ares looks good but no good enough, when I say good looking I mean something like DCS Debussy or Gryphon Kalliope to give you an example.
     
  13. slex

    Still work out est. US$60 cheaper through http://www.vinshineaudio.com
     
  14. slex

    I think its size suit the dimension for schiit Jotunheim. Just slap untop of Ares. Those who have black Jotunheiem:thumbsup:
     
  15. abartels
     
    You are talking about a networkplayer. So you want a networkplayer with upgradeable NOS R2R dac. Not sure if they exist.
    I can imagine you don't want aditional boxes, that is one of the reasons I did build my own networkplayer, for now NOT based on R2R, but that probably will change in the near future [​IMG]
     
    Btw, why would one want a box which converts from I2S and AES to USB?
     
    Ethernet itselve is ONLY the transport. It doesn't include some sort of audio format which directly can be imported into dac chip. So, if talking about a networkplayer (see my avatar and/or link)
    you are talking about a device which receives music files from NAS or other network source, or direct stream from internet like Tidal HIFI. You need a device which converts all this stuff into a format your dac understands, mostly I2S signals.
     
    In my case I did build it around a Raspberry Pi. There are many networkplayers available, all build around a low-computing device which directly provides the signals used by the dac chip(s).
     
    Hope this clears things up a bit [​IMG]
     
    Cheers [​IMG]
     
    Alex
     
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