[newworld666]

No I want it all and tonal balance of Susvara is unbelievable good!
Metal with Stealth sounds too slow sometimes too fat in the low end holding the impact away. Or my Niimbus was not good enough for Stealth?

For amazing impacts in low and ultra low .. Heddphone One's tech is really offering unknown real kicks in the throat.
For Metal, with a little THX887 amp (2x6W at 32ohms) behind the M17, my Heddphone can often be a bit more impressive than my DCA Stealth.
So, just for such pleasure at a realistic sound pressure level (quite loud), I still use the Heddphone One (I definitely keep it for this pleasure), though for absolute sound quality "reference", clearly the DCA stealth is the headphone to use....and I am still wondering if the Susvara can push this feature to another level on some points..

 

[PointyFox]

I had a Susvara and TH900, sold the Susvara, bought the Stealth, then sold the TH900.

I believe the Stealth and Susvara are about the same in terms of bass impact though they present bass differently.

I believe impact is essentially loudness.
You may be thinking "but wait, there's no correlation between impact and frequency response". Well, yes if you don't factor in time.

Sounds don't immediately stop once the input says they should. The driver still has inertia and there are still reflections inside the cups. This is why dynamic drivers tend to produce more impact. They tend to take longer to stop because they generally have more mass and are pushing on more air. It's not just the instantaneous loudness, but the duration of the loudness that creates the impact. We're talking about milliseconds here so the delay isn't noticed as a delay. Frequency response over time can be measured. The plots are called waterfall or CSD plots.

The Stealth is incredibly fast with almost no reflections which results in a "tight" sound.
It has increased bass volume to make up for this.

The Susvara isn't quite as fast and has some resonance or reflections in both the bass and treble. It has lower bass volume, so impact is about the same in the bass compared to the Stealth while the treble might sound a little more punchy due to increased treble volume/impact due to ringing.

This is why some people might hear the Stealth and not like it at first. It's extremely fast and accurate, to the point of sounding dry compared to headphones that smear the sound a bit. It's why audiophiles often call the smearing "euphonic" or "musical" and purposely seek out high end amps, especially tube amps, and DACs that measure poorly and smear sound.

One of the benefits of the Stealth's quickness in the bass is incredible space between sounds that slower headphones tend to blur, aka "muddiness". The soundstage isn't wider, but imaging is much better defined as a result.

Sure, the soundstage on the Susvara sounds more open because it's an open back design, but it doesn't match the Stealth in speed and tonal accuracy. Ringing in the treble will give added volume/impact and the appearance of detail but it isn't speed. It will muddy up the rest of the sound, despite possibly sounding euphonic to some.

So the question is, do you prefer accuracy or artificial impact/euphonics?

 

[audiocroissant]

I had a Susvara and TH900, sold the Susvara, bought the Stealth, then sold the TH900.

I believe the Stealth and Susvara are about the same in terms of bass impact though they present bass differently.

I believe impact is essentially loudness.
You may be thinking "but wait, there's no correlation between impact and frequency response". Well, yes if you don't factor in time.

Sounds don't immediately stop once the input says they should. The driver still has inertia and there are still reflections inside the cups. This is why dynamic drivers tend to produce more impact. They tend to take longer to stop because they generally have more mass and are pushing on more air. It's not just the instantaneous loudness, but the duration of the loudness that creates the impact. We're talking about milliseconds here so the delay isn't noticed as a delay. Frequency response over time can be measured. The plots are called waterfall or CSD plots.

The Stealth is incredibly fast with almost no reflections which results in a "tight" sound.
It has increased bass volume to make up for this.

The Susvara isn't quite as fast and has some resonance or reflections in both the bass and treble. It has lower bass volume, so impact is about the same in the bass compared to the Stealth while the treble might sound a little more punchy due to increased treble volume/impact due to ringing.

This is why some people might hear the Stealth and not like it at first. It's extremely fast and accurate, to the point of sounding dry compared to headphones that smear the sound a bit. It's why audiophiles often call the smearing "euphonic" or "musical" and purposely seek out high end amps, especially tube amps, and DACs that measure poorly and smear sound.

One of the benefits of the Stealth's quickness in the bass is incredible space between sounds that slower headphones tend to blur, aka "muddiness". The soundstage isn't wider, but imaging is much better defined as a result.

Sure, the soundstage on the Susvara sounds more open because it's an open back design, but it doesn't match the Stealth in speed and tonal accuracy. Ringing in the treble will give added volume/impact and the appearance of detail but it isn't speed. It will muddy up the rest of the sound, despite possibly sounding euphonic to some.

So the question is, do you prefer accuracy or artificial impact/euphonics?

I wonder what the results would be if the audiophile community was polled about that. Does it also depend on the type of genres and music as well? ie priorities of the predominantly classical music listener would be different compared to the metal listener?

 

[Ciggavelli]

I wonder what the results would be if the audiophile community was polled about that. Does it also depend on the type of genres and music as well? ie priorities of the predominantly classical music listener would be different compared to the metal listener?

Yes. For example, I listen to mostly metal and hip-hop and my bass and dynamics needs are much different than a classical or jazz fan. It’s why my favorite headphones are different than others who predominantly listen to jazz, classical or acoustic.

 

[saudio7]

Just wanted to make a fest report.
For film score type music, Stealth is extraordinary.
Subbas extension and well damped housing/drivers make you really feel like in a cinema.
For example this track:


It feels like mini subwoofers have been placed inside your head. With these headphones subbas is something that you can die for.

ps. another great example is Duel of the fates from Star Wars - version by the city of Prague philharmonic orchestra. It sound beautiful

Just trying Stealth with Dave and it is perfect pairing, a bit to close presentation for my taste, but the rest is excellent.

 

[Currawong]

The Stealth is incredibly fast with almost no reflections which results in a "tight" sound.
It has increased bass volume to make up for this.

I think your explanation is mostly on the right track. A couple of things though:
The bass is set to match what we'd hear from high-end speakers in a well-damped room. We're definitely not used to hearing well-damped bass from headphones, and the frequency response looks like the bass has been increased down low, and can be confusing, as the bass distortion is lower than usual (from memory). But, it wasn't increased to "make up for" anything, except for a small amount of mid-bass added back. I usually refer to Dan Clark's CanJam presentation video, as it explains it in detail (and way better than I can).

This is why some people might hear the Stealth and not like it at first. It's extremely fast and accurate, to the point of sounding dry compared to headphones that smear the sound a bit. It's why audiophiles often call the smearing "euphonic" or "musical" and purposely seek out high end amps, especially tube amps, and DACs that measure poorly and smear sound.

I agree with the first sentence. The second, I don't. Some amps have a degree of even-order harmonic distortion added back in to sound more "euphonic". This is not "smearing" of sound, which I would describe as the effect of a poor power supply unable to supply enough current. Many tube amps are highly resolving (I have one on next to me). Harmonic distortion is often added into recordings for the same reason. If anything, it can have the effect of seeming like there is more in the music or soundstage than there actually is.

I've come to the conclusion, after 15 or so years at this, that the whole "measure poorly" thing is a huge strawman-like argument. Mostly because the argument being pushed down peoples' throats is that harmonic distortion is somehow bad, which goes against what makes listening enjoyable. It has people, very often, ignoring types of distortion that are either unpleasant (IMD -- how many recently measured low-THD amps seem to NOT have either an IMD graph, or no IMD numbers published?) and doesn't show behaviour with actual headphones, which often doesn't produce pretty graphs, as driving an analyser directly will.

 

[PointyFox]

Mostly because the argument being pushed down peoples' throats is that harmonic distortion is somehow bad

But it is?
It's a measure of the difference between the input and output of the amplifier.
Amplifiers should just amplify the input, not change it.
Why pay more for an amplifier that distorts the sound (assuming it's the "right" kind of distortion, in many high end amplifiers it is not) when you can just add a dedicated filter if you think the recording artist didn't add enough to the mix?

 

[ok computer]

After spending a few nights with the amp and the Stealths I’ve decided that Stealths are interesting and worth exploring to me but the limiting factor seems to be the A90D. This is running from an RME ADI-2 PRO set to +24dbu output (approx 12V). The sound is pretty good with this combo, and I think a lot of people will be happy with it. Ultimately though, I don’t think the A90D has enough juice for the Stealths. Even with a hot input on High gain I have to use at least on the volume to get satisfactory levels. I like to listen relatively loud, but I’m by no means blowing my ears out. Going for more realistic near concert levels it is not super hard to come close to maxing out the volume on classical or soundtrack type stuff. On more modern pop tracks listening around 85 for short periods is nice but I had the amp clip more than a few times on me.

I also got an adapter to run the stealths with the balanced headphone out on the RME. This did not yield good results. The staging is more vague, the bass is less precise, and the sound completely falls apart at high levels. It sounds ok up to a point and then everything gets flat and the highs get harsh and everything just sounds strained. I can’t recommend this combo at all, and the fact that Amir said every hifi company needs to hear this to know what a world class sound system is, well… I don’t really know what to say. And he was using the RME single ended too. Big yikes. Not saying that this combo can’t be enjoyed, it certainly can. But this is far far away from world class.

The A90D keeps it’s composure right up until clipping which is good. The sound doesn’t fall apart it just cleanly gets louder. The dynamics are also pretty good on this amp and much better than from the RME outputs.

My only real issue outside of wanting more power, is the timbre just seems too grayed out. Instruments sound kind of samey in comparison to my SR-1A setup. It’s hard to tell how much of this is the headphones and how much is the amp without a better amp to compare it to but my bet is that it’s the amp. Timbre is not something that planars are great at in my experience but I’ve definitely heard much better from them before and I think the Stealths are capable of better. These high feedback high measuring amps often get called either “clean” or “sterile.” I’m going to have to put myself in the sterile camp. There is a lack of connectedness to the sound that does not sound realistic. It’s hard to explain but comparing side by side to the raals it is evident.

That all being said I don’t think it’s a bad amp by anys means, nor is it a bad value. I’m sure there are headphones that will synergize very well with it. I am returning the A90D to try to find something that can really being the stealths to life. Wish me luck, and enjoy some music!

 

[ra990]

After spending a few nights with the amp and the Stealths I’ve decided that Stealths are interesting and worth exploring to me but the limiting factor seems to be the A90D.

Try the Questyle CMA Fifteen. The best pairing I've heard with the Stealth and a really great all-in-one.

 

[ok computer]

But it is?
It's a measure of the difference between the input and output of the amplifier.
Amplifiers should just amplify the input, not change it.
Why pay more for an amplifier that distorts the sound (assuming it's the "right" kind of distortion, in many high end amplifiers it is not) when you can just add a dedicated filter if you think the recording artist didn't add enough to the mix?

Reality is just not this simple. Any kind of filter you add digitally has a trade off in some way. There is no free lunch. An amplifier measuring well on a steady state sinewave, also does not mean it performs better than another amp on a complex and dynamic music signal. Measurements are all well and good but you have to understand the context.

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

After spending a few nights with the amp and the Stealths I’ve decided that Stealths are interesting and worth exploring to me but the limiting factor seems to be the A90D. This is running from an RME ADI-2 PRO set to +24dbu output (approx 12V). The sound is pretty good with this combo, and I think a lot of people will be happy with it. Ultimately though, I don’t think the A90D has enough juice for the Stealths. Even with a hot input on High gain I have to use at least on the volume to get satisfactory levels. I like to listen relatively loud, but I’m by no means blowing my ears out. Going for more realistic near concert levels it is not super hard to come close to maxing out the volume on classical or soundtrack type stuff. On more modern pop tracks listening around 85 for short periods is nice but I had the amp clip more than a few times on me.

I also got an adapter to run the stealths with the balanced headphone out on the RME. This did not yield good results. The staging is more vague, the bass is less precise, and the sound completely falls apart at high levels. It sounds ok up to a point and then everything gets flat and the highs get harsh and everything just sounds strained. I can’t recommend this combo at all, and the fact that Amir said every hifi company needs to hear this to know what a world class sound system is, well… I don’t really know what to say. And he was using the RME single ended too. Big yikes. Not saying that this combo can’t be enjoyed, it certainly can. But this is far far away from world class.

The A90D keeps it’s composure right up until clipping which is good. The sound doesn’t fall apart it just cleanly gets louder. The dynamics are also pretty good on this amp and much better than from the RME outputs.

My only real issue outside of wanting more power, is the timbre just seems too grayed out. Instruments sound kind of samey in comparison to my SR-1A setup. It’s hard to tell how much of this is the headphones and how much is the amp without a better amp to compare it to but my bet is that it’s the amp. Timbre is not something that planars are great at in my experience but I’ve definitely heard much better from them before and I think the Stealths are capable of better. These high feedback high measuring amps often get called either “clean” or “sterile.” I’m going to have to put myself in the sterile camp. There is a lack of connectedness to the sound that does not sound realistic. It’s hard to explain but comparing side by side to the raals it is evident.

That all being said I don’t think it’s a bad amp by anys means, nor is it a bad value. I’m sure there are headphones that will synergize very well with it. I am returning the A90D to try to find something that can really being the stealths to life. Wish me luck, and enjoy some music!

I have been saying these things about RME/Topping/THX and similar amps for ages but no one ever believes me.

 

[ThanatosVI]

But it is?
It's a measure of the difference between the input and output of the amplifier.
Amplifiers should just amplify the input, not change it.
Why pay more for an amplifier that distorts the sound (assuming it's the "right" kind of distortion, in many high end amplifiers it is not) when you can just add a dedicated filter if you think the recording artist didn't add enough to the mix?

It really depends. Harmonic Distortion is like the main purpose of tube amps.

It's like saying all tube amps are bad without exception...

 

[DarginMahkum]

Reality is just not this simple. Any kind of filter you add digitally has a trade off in some way. There is no free lunch. An amplifier measuring well on a steady state sinewave, also does not mean it performs better than another amp on a complex and dynamic music signal. Measurements are all well and good but you have to understand the context.

So when the amplifier alters the sound, it is for free?

 

[Tachyon88]

@ok computer 12v input and on high gain and you still don't have enough power ? With 5v input I never leave low gain on my A90. I think the clipping point on A90 is high gain at 1'clock'ish. I wonder if something is up with the a90D ? What were some of the songs you listend to that required the volume ?

 

[PointyFox]

Yeah, something isn't right. I use 4V input and a volume of 70 on low gain which gives me like 77-85 dBA on the Stealth. Maybe he broke it with the very high input voltage?

And then the Questyle Fifteen is being recommended with something like 1/10th the output power of the Topping A90 Discreet:

Try the Questyle CMA Fifteen. The best pairing I've heard with the Stealth and a really great all-in-one.