[deafenears]

There is a place for all of these aspects and all are relevent - even if we can't all agree on something at the end of the day.

This ^

But take all of this community info, shake it up in a can and evaluate what you end up with and you'll get the best all around picture imo

... and this ^

The more info we have from as many sources as possible gives us the best chance of evaluating something accurately.

... and also this ^

I appreciate, value and respect your(and everyone else's) data AND opinions here.

... and this as well ^.

Well said, thats how I feel too... about audio... and my coffee, love my coffee... and my audio

 

[DarginMahkum]

Of course.
Personally I like measurments as well as opinions and experiences.

As my name hints I work in the coffee industry and after years of professional experience and learning different parts of it I can say it's part science/measurments/specs, part art and lastly partly individual experiences. It draw parallels with the audio world.

There is a place for all of these aspects and all are relevent - even if we can't all agree on something at the end of the day.


My annoyance with spec wars (to be clear not data/graphs you or other community members worked hard to generate and record) etc from manufacturers is on par with gut feeling/give it a listen people too. (Same with "this coffee is best" or people that say expresso - don't get me started)


But take all of this community info, shake it up in a can and evaluate what you end up with and you'll get the best all around picture imo

The more info we have from as many sources as possible gives us the best chance of evaluating something accurately.

Especially as a newbie I appreciate, value and respect your(and everyone else's) data AND opinions here.

Much love to everyone

I don't think you are a newbie anymore, as you know the response pattern to anyone that in some way mentiones the measurments - that is independent of the context, whether it is a question, or a statement. And that pattern varies depending on the population of the thread from telling him get the hell out to milder expressions about how much that other person values this, and that and the measurements. As if the initiator is using headphones for anything other than listening. The same pattern over and over and over again.

In the end, the person that wants to bring up something is forced to lose the focus, read about things he never intended to go into or was interested in - espeially when that person has an idea about what he wants. But the same pattern is repeated, ending with some pats on the back of those that make him lose the focus. "Well done, we avoided one more time something we don't like hearing about in these threads."

Nice analogy, for sure, but that pattern itself just became too banal for me.

 

[DarginMahkum]

Of course.
Personally I like measurments as well as opinions and experiences.

As my name hints I work in the coffee industry and after years of professional experience and learning different parts of it I can say it's part science/measurments/specs, part art and lastly partly individual experiences. It draw parallels with the audio world.

There is a place for all of these aspects and all are relevent - even if we can't all agree on something at the end of the day.


My annoyance with spec wars (to be clear not data/graphs you or other community members worked hard to generate and record) etc from manufacturers is on par with gut feeling/give it a listen people too. (Same with "this coffee is best" or people that say expresso - don't get me started)


But take all of this community info, shake it up in a can and evaluate what you end up with and you'll get the best all around picture imo

The more info we have from as many sources as possible gives us the best chance of evaluating something accurately.

Especially as a newbie I appreciate, value and respect your(and everyone else's) data AND opinions here.

Much love to everyone

By the way, I know you mean good and sorry if I sound a bit too sharp - but even if I mention anything small in any data, I hear the same responses from 5 people, passing the ball to each other and then throwing it out - which makes me feel uncomfortable about discussing anything in these forums.

 

[bfreedma]

I don't think you are a newbie anymore, as you know the response pattern to anyone that in some way mentiones the measurments - that is independent of the context, whether it is a question, or a statement. And that pattern varies depending on the population of the thread from telling him get the hell out to milder expressions about how much that other person values this, and that and the measurements. As if the initiator is using headphones for anything other than listening. The same pattern over and over and over again.

In the end, the person that wants to bring up something is forced to lose the focus, read about things he never intended to go into or was interested in - espeially when that person has an idea about what he wants. But the same pattern is repeated, ending with some pats on the back of those that make him lose the focus. "Well done, we avoided one more time something we don't like hearing about in these threads."

Nice analogy, for sure, but that pattern itself just became too banal for me.

Ignoring people you consider trolls is far easier than continuing to have the same argument in perpetuity which only adds more gasoline to the cable/amp/DAC inferno.

I don’t understand why people believe almost every tangible object in audio reproduction operates outside the established boundaries of physics, electrical engineering, and digital theory. I do know that extended arguments on Head-FI have a very low rate of changing anyone’s mind on these topics.

 

[Jimthecoffeeguy]

By the way, I know you mean good and sorry if I sound a bit too sharp - but even if I mention anything small in any data, I hear the same responses from 5 people, passing the ball to each other and then throwing it out - which makes me feel uncomfortable about discussing anything in these forums.

Na your all good dude. It's good to have a solid Convo and learn where ppl stand on things.
Understand your perspective completely!
Also, defs I'm still a freshie here and won't pretend to be a pro, But I believe I don't lack common sense and a logical mind in a convo, so that helps perhaps

 

[Jimthecoffeeguy]

Ignoring people you consider trolls is far easier than continuing to have the same argument in perpetuity which only adds more gasoline to the cable/amp/DAC inferno.

I don’t understand why people believe almost every tangible object in audio reproduction operates outside the established boundaries of physics, electrical engineering, and digital theory. I do know that extended arguments on Head-FI have a very low rate of changing anyone’s mind on these topics.

I dunno either. From an electrical techs perspective a lot of it dosent make sense to me at times. But I'll happily be proven wrong.

On the flip side everyone is entitled to his or her opinions, and as long as they are happy and respectful as they coexist with others who's worried?
Ultimately it's all about the and experience we have, enjoy and love. right?

As for me: I have a stealth, I enjoy owning it, and I love it's sound!

 

[bfreedma]

I dunno either. From an electrical techs perspective a lot of it dosent make sense to me at times. But I'll happily be proven wrong.

On the flip side everyone is entitled to his or her opinions, and as long as they are happy and respectful as they coexist with others who's worried?
Ultimately it's all about the and experience we have, enjoy and love. right?

As for me: I have a stealth, I enjoy owning it, and I love it's sound!

i agree completely that everyone is entitled to their opinion and preference. Unfortunately, too many people confuse their subjective opinions with objective facts and their personal preference as some universal reference for all to follow.

 

[xirxes]

i agree completely that everyone is entitled to their opinion and preference. Unfortunately, too many people confuse their subjective opinions with objective facts and their personal preference as some universal reference for all to follow.

Such an old story. I came to the dac/interconnect/cable debate with mind open and eyes shut. In blind A/B my untrained ears CAN hear a difference in testing, and can identify between cables reproducibly when others swap, which I assign better/worse. This is subjective AND objectively true that there is a difference, and more parts of the music are revealed on certain chains.

Now whether or not you PREFER the sound out of one vs the other is fully arguable, and whether or not the difference is significant enough to YOU to spend on the cable/gear is also arguable, but the argument as to whether or not there are audible differences is off the table and reproducibly verified.

 

[Jimthecoffeeguy]

Such an old story. I came to the dac/interconnect/cable debate with mind open and eyes shut. In blind A/B my untrained ears CAN hear a difference in testing, and can identify between cables reproducibly when others swap, which I assign better/worse. This is subjective AND objectively true that there is a difference, and more parts of the music are revealed on certain chains.

Now whether or not you PREFER the sound out of one vs the other is fully arguable, and whether or not the difference is significant enough to YOU to spend on the cable/gear is also arguable, but the argument as to whether or not there are audible differences is off the table and reproducibly verified.

Cables are an interesting topic and field I've not yet decided to walk down.

I fully believe that different cables can impact the sound. The question is why?

As a tech with a firm electronics background I understand many (but certainly not all) aspects of conducters.

This leads me to believe that different cables can color or otherwise affect the sound due to differing measurable property's, although like many things in this hobby there are varying results and diminishing returns. Perhaps it's all just down to personal preference rather than better or worse?

I find I lean towards pure unfiltered sound so if I could telepathically link my ears and brain directly to the source track I'd be at my happiest. Sadly we can only do so via a cable and transducers for now. And cables introduce variables.

So what do different cables change exactly? I've no idea. Too many variables to investigate.

For now I'm happy with my stock cables and headphones and will focus on my amp and dac (picking up my benchmark stack in 2 days finally!)

 

[BassicScience]

Cables are an interesting topic and field I've not yet decided to walk down.

I fully believe that different cables can impact the sound. The question is why?

As a tech with a firm electronics background I understand many (but certainly not all) aspects of conducters.

This leads me to believe that different cables can color or otherwise affect the sound due to differing measurable property's, although like many things in this hobby there are varying results and diminishing returns. Perhaps it's all just down to personal preference rather than better or worse?

I find I lean towards pure unfiltered sound so if I could telepathically link my ears and brain directly to the source track I'd be at my happiest. Sadly we can only do so via a cable and transducers for now. And cables introduce variables.

So what do different cables change exactly? I've no idea. Too many variables to investigate.

For now I'm happy with my stock cables and headphones and will focus on my amp and dac (picking up my benchmark stack in 2 days finally!)

Wire has capacitance and inductance, which represent a variable impedance as a function of frequency. There are also different grounding, shielding, and termination configurations. While there's a bunch of dubious claims and marketing BS around cables, there's also some legitimate engineering involved.

 

[Jimthecoffeeguy]

Wire has capacitance and inductance, which represent a variable impedance as a function of frequency. There are also different grounding, shielding, and termination configurations. While there's a bunch of dubious claims and marketing BS around cables, there's also some legitimate engineering involved.

Oh 100%.
I didn't elaborate after the question as different cables will have different values.too many variables.

The engineering is what id be most interested in. Not really worried about marketing claims.
You could probably delve even deeper into things like resistances, harmonic distortion and resonances among other things, but... Effort and complexity ya know. And I'm not invested enough currently. Mabey one day.
For now stock is good enough for this chappy.

 

[deuter]

It really comes down to whether you've found the ultimate headphone for you!


Watch this video:

I was advised about investing time into trialing cables etc once you've finalized rest of your components, i.e: Speaker,Amp,Dac, turntable etc

That's when you get into the cables that bring about the right synergy in your system.

 

[Jimthecoffeeguy]

It really comes down to whether you've found the ultimate headphone for you!


Watch this video:

I was advised about investing time into trialing cables etc once you've finalized rest of your components, i.e: Speaker,Amp,Dac, turntable etc

That's when you get into the cables that bring about the right synergy in your system.

I'll take a look.
I wonder if a cables "sound" could be replicated or reproduced with eqing or some other digital manipulation means?

 

[newworld666]

With the Stealth I switch between 3 types of balanced cable :
- DCA Vivo 4.4mm
- Ultra low capacitance cable 4.4mm
-100% pure Silver cable

I can't catch any sound quality impact, but, comfort is really different.
Ultra low capacitance is the most comfortable to use and be free to move, the pure Silver is the easiest to carry in a bag for any trip, the Vivo is longer so more convenient for a desktop place.
Impacts of PEQ is, by far, the most significant on SQ, but for the first time in this last decade I don't need to apply any PEQ with the Stealth, which is astonishing.

 

[DarginMahkum]

It really comes down to whether you've found the ultimate headphone for you!


Watch this video:

I was advised about investing time into trialing cables etc once you've finalized rest of your components, i.e: Speaker,Amp,Dac, turntable etc

That's when you get into the cables that bring about the right synergy in your system.

That "I want your money" finger... Isn't that the guy that sells cables for $2.6K and ear pads that probably costs $10 to produce for $475?