[gammi]

I build custom pcs for gaming. That’s not even an equal comparison. It’s not even in the realm of the same thing. What you experienced isn’t necessarily a fact as you state. It’s great you get more out of something but that doesn’t make it a universal truth. What would you say if I listened on the same setup and heard no difference from the topping? Whose experience is fact?

I know they're not the same, I'm just giving an example from another field where manufacture recommended doesn't mean best. It also doesn't mean best in the headphone world, that's where the comparison overlaps. When a dozen people here, most reviewers state it, and it's been my own personal experience in A/B testing then I would take that as fact over your one single experience. Furthermore it makes logical sense with Expanse being a low sensitivity, highly damped headphone. Idk what else to say to you, many people have found the Expanse improves with more power. I'll leave my part in this at that.

have a nice time!
There is no doubt that a good, powerful desktop amplifier will do a better job with headphones like the Expanse, however, it seems to me that people exaggerate a bit, and you can definitely get a very good sound (even if not perfect) even with certain mobile devices,
One should be careful of audiophile worldviews that do not require that they are indeed true,
As you will be told that without a crazy speaker amplifier you will not be able to enjoy the headphones,
Now, it is true that such an amplifier will do more justice to the headphones, but this is not entirely true because you can certainly enjoy and get a lot of the potential of the headphones even with a good headphone amplifier,
The same goes for mobile devices,
Just my opinion...

Yeah, I don't mean to be that guy that's like OMG you need this $10k amp or else it's gonna sound like crap. It's still a great experience on the G5 (I own a G5 as well) and I'm happy he's enjoying it. This all started out by him stating he didn't notice a difference between his other amp and I added well yeah, cause it's barely any more power/current than the G5.

If I came off as saying he needs to spend more money on more power, sorry, I didn't mean it that way.

 

[number1sixerfan]

There is no doubt that a good, powerful desktop amplifier will do a better job with headphones like the Expanse, however, it seems to me that people exaggerate a bit, and you can definitely get a very good sound (even if not perfect) even with certain mobile devices,

It's not really exaggeration with insensitive headphones such as the Expanse, Susvara, etc. From what I have experienced, for whatever reason, quality continuous current seems to really improve their performance, which many headphone amps can't supply. But also at play is that people have different expectations and levels of experience. Some may enjoy these headphones directly out of a laptop or DAP (not talking the exceptions of DAPs that might be decently capable), while others appreciate and/or require the improvements of better amplification. People simply have different levels of expectations.

I think where the water gets muddied is when people that prefer to amplify these harder to power headphones make nearly absolute statements about their shortcomings and/or ditch them quickly, when many times those shortcomings are directly related to being underpowered. That's probably a big reason people really double down on recommending adequate amplification in the first place, which I could see being seen as an exaggeration if you're already totally satisfied using something like a laptop..

 

[Benesyed]

The idea that you need more power beyond actual listening volume is silly.

The only thing that matters is the delivery of the necessary power for desired volume output. Tube amps aside, most modern well designed solid state amps will provide you clean power very quickly and efficiently far below the threshold of audibility and will allow the transducers to speak. Even slew is pretty trivial since the delta v and dt are so small. it's likely that actual voltage being applied is exactly the same and since it's not in the top 20% of the power delivery there likely aren't any measurable or audible differences in performance.

I think you are most likely hearing bias, not a real difference. The Holo audio dac/amps are well engineered but I doubt anyone here could tell the difference reliably in an unsighted test. I know I can't even though I'm going to order them (for collecting for fun). Would happily offer 1000$ at the next CanJam NYC or Chicago for a blind folded test. I'm happy to buy the gear, the hotel room, etc all myself. And if I'm proven wrong well I win anyway for setting up a fun test, justifying my gear, and hopefully having a fun time!

 

[gammi]

The idea that you need more power beyond actual listening volume is silly.

But here's the thing... you DO need more power for bass.
It takes a lot more power to produce a 90dB sound at 20Hz than it does at 20KHz.

Ever notice that subwoofer amps are 1000W+ while speaker amps are like 50W+?

I'll be at CanJam NYC. Let's make it a $1 bet though, I'll feel badly taking your $1000.
I bet I can identify the G5 vs a speaker amp or very powerful headphone amp at least 7/10 times on a song section of my choosing. Actually, maybe I'll see if my significant other will run that test with me tonight.

 

[Benesyed]

But here's the thing... you DO need more power for bass.
It takes a lot more power to produce a 90dB sound at 20Hz than it does at 20KHz.

Ever notice that subwoofer amps are 1000W+ while speaker amps are like 50W+?

I'll be at CanJam NYC. Let's make it a $1 bet though, I'll feel badly taking your $1000.
I bet I can identify the G5 vs a speaker amp or very powerful headphone amp at least 7/10 times on a song section of my choosing. Actually, maybe I'll see if my significant other will run that test with me tonight.

Bass test tone on the G5 through the expanse gets pretty loud without distortion from the tests I've seen on line
from my ear I get plenty bass.

Ok I will try to be there! and let's say $100 dollars to a charity if your choice if you win. If you lose I get a dollar. I'll have to look into amps but give my a min power output.

Should be fun regardless!

 

[gammi]

Bass test tone on the G5 through the expanse gets pretty loud without distortion from the tests I've seen on line
from my ear I get plenty bass.

Ok I will try to be there! and let's say $100 dollars to a charity if your choice if you win. If you lose I get a dollar. I'll have to look into amps but give my a min power output.

Should be fun regardless!

Cool, make it $100 charity on my end as well then. I'll bring my monoblocks in a suitcase if we can't find anyone else already bringing something powerful.

There's more to bass than just a test tone btw. There are factors like the rising edge of the bass signal which will affect things like impact.
You can graph two 90dB 20Hz signals and have them look very different due to things like slope and over/undershoot.

Edit: Just did some comparisons on my own and I must admit, it's closer than I remember! This little G5 is impressive. I may have been thinking of my RAAL CA-1a which definitely lacked bass on the G5 due to the transformer box being so hard to drive. I think I even got it to heavily distort with the RAAL.

 

[Benesyed]

haha sounds good

yeah G5 is very very good

 

[domiji]

Hello Expanse-Lovers out there

i am using the Expanse for over a week now and a have to say that i love them! I owned a lot TOTL headphones in the past (Diana TC, Utopia, Elite.....) but the Expanse is THE best overall-headphone.

I was wondering if someone ever changed the pads on the Expanse? They are glued as far as i know. I just want to be prepared for the future


Thanks for your help and have a great day
Dominik

 

[mrspeakers]

Just to be clear slew rate has nothing to do with bass performance. Wikipedia has a simple elegant summary which is "Slew rate helps us identify the maximum input frequency and amplitude applicable to the amplifier such that the output is not significantly distorted. Thus it becomes imperative to check the datasheet for the device's slew rate before using it for high-frequency applications."

The rise time of square waves is, when considered through FFT, just a proxy for upper end bandwidth. If an amps slew rate isn't able to respond to inputs at higher frequencies distortion results.

 

[mrspeakers]

Hello Expanse-Lovers out there

i am using the Expanse for over a week now and a have to say that i love them! I owned a lot TOTL headphones in the past (Diana TC, Utopia, Elite.....) but the Expanse is THE best overall-headphone


I was wondering if someone ever changed the pads on the Expanse? They are glued as far as i know. I just want to be prepared for the future


Thanks for your help and have a great day
Dominik

Glad you enjoy it, the pads aren't glued they are applied using adhesive tape, to replace you just peel them off.

 

[BattousaiX26]

Out of pro ican signature, violectric v550 and oor with hypsos, expanse really shines with oor with hypsos. The dynamics and the openness sound that oor provides synergizes well with the expanse. Ended up buying a pair after getting the chance to try at the headphone store.

 

[XGeneX88]

Has anyone here had the chance to compare an Expanse to the new E3? I realize we're talking open vs closed back but both are on my radar to try. The E3 is a much cheaper price proposition and they seem to have some overlapping technologies. If anyone is able to speak about how they compare, I'd be grateful. I've noticed lately that Expanse on the used market is coming down to the $2300-2700 price range (depending on country, condition etc) so it's not THAT far away from what a brand new E3 would cost. I'm considering both at this time but do tend to prefer open backs over closed backs most of the time. Never tried the meta material stuff Dan put out though so who knows if that extends to this product line (sadly I have no way to audition these things).

My amps are the Schiit Lyr+ and the Hifiman EF400.. I'm sure both would most likely drive the Expanse just fine. If anyone has tried these combos, I'd also love to hear your impressions of it.. was either amp a good pairing with the Expanse.... or E3?

Thanks guys!

 

[SlothRock]

Funny question, but has anyone used the Expanse for gaming? I usually only have one closed and open back in my collection at a time (at the most) and so I always like to make sure my open back is great for gaming. Been considering the Expanse as a pair to my E3 and curious about this.

 

[Spawn300Z]

Funny question, but has anyone used the Expanse for gaming? I usually only have one closed and open back in my collection at a time (at the most) and so I always like to make sure my open back is great for gaming. Been considering the Expanse as a pair to my E3 and curious about this.

Search on the Stealth thread. There is a member that swears it’s the beast for gaming even over the normal HD800S option. You make talk to him about the differences.

 

[SlothRock]

Search on the Stealth thread. There is a member that swears it’s the beast for gaming even over the normal HD800S option. You make talk to him about the differences.

The Expanse or the Stealth is the best for gaming?