[gammi]

I was expecting this to be harder but to put it simply, I haven't been able to find a category where any of these beat the Expanse. As you can tell by the fact I have 4 totl headphones, I have a bit of trouble finding a one size fits all and keep them all around for different reasons so I figured this would be more of the same and the Expanse would win some and lose some. It was not.

Note: I tested these all with EQ and without, with the exception of the Expanse which was only played via direct WASAPI. My thought is I'm going to use them EQed when I listen, I should compare them that way and not handicap them by not EQing. So each headphone should be putting its strongest foot forward.

First off, the Verite is a clear drop below the others in clarity. Even when EQed it sounds veiled compared to the others. That more or less made me move on right away to the Utopia. Utopia picked up a lot of clarity and openness but at the expense of being shouty/sharp even with EQ (but less so). Better impact/bass than the Verite too. Onto the Empyrean, my most regularly used. I think the Emp trades blows in the impact category with the Utopia, winning some tracks losing others but doesn't have the shouty-ness of the Utopia, instead it is always lush/rich sounding which is precisely what I love about the Emp. I had thought the Emp was going to be my endgame, personally I don't have any faults with it but gave the Expanse a shot anyway to see what it could do. Glad I did.

Impact/bass: Expanse wins out of the 4, which I wasn't expecting, with Utopia and Emp trading blows for second and not that far behind. Out of them all, it's the only one where I really get that sensation of the air pressure on my ears, almost like a closed back. I get it some with Utopia and Emp, not much with Verite. Prodigy on the Expanse gets me bouncing in my seat, The Expanse brings so much energy and drive to heavy hitting electronica like that.
Separation/Soundstage: Expanse again. The strings in Fleetwood Mac's Never Going Back Again stand out razor sharp. The drums in Radiohead's Where I End and You Begin fade into the background of the vocals on the others, you have to look for them, but are easily discernable on the Expanse. Bubbles by Yosi Horikawa is just insane on the Expanse, totally surrounded in detail, each and every sound sticking out in its own location in space. The Smith's A Rush and a Push and the Land is Ours performed the best on the Expanse as well, the opening where his voice fades in is perfectly tracked right to left and I can feel it transition exactly across that whole space like it's circling around my head.
Detail: Guess what? Expanse... There's this interesting effect with the Expanse where sometimes notes will sustain longer and I believe this is due to an increase in resolution whereas on the others I'm losing part of the sound because it drops below their resolution whereas the Expanse lets me hear it as it fades out all the way to nothing. Don't confuse this for meaning it's syrupy/smeared, it doesn't hold the note any longer than it's actually supposed to be there, it's more that the others are missing it. It still attacks very sharp and can cut off abruptly when needed. For example, when the drums kick in at the beginning of Deftones Feiticeira, they hit hard and fast, each one having its own sharp impact.
Comfort/Usability: I think you know at this point... Expanse ties the Emp for earpad/strap comfort but Expanse takes the edge with a lighter cable that disappears and convenient collapsibility. When I put on the others I found myself fidgeting with the cable to get its weight off me, the Utopia is too heavy and starts to hurt after a while and Verite is well, a wood circle. Only negative to usability for the Expanse is that it's the hardest to drive but the Jotunheim doesn't care about that. Expanse attenuates sound the best which is nice, since sometimes my room is noisy.

Wish this review didn't sound like a paid advertisement lol, but I genuinely couldn't find an area where the Expanse was outperformed. I think I'll finally be selling my other sets. I'll be doing some more direct comparison with the Empyrean since I think that's the Expanse's closest competitor. Those two have a fairly similar sound signature to my ear, they both fall in that sweet spot where everything is clear but has warmth/body/richness and is never harsh. I think if you're looking for a "cheap" Expanse, used Empyrean is the way to go, similar sound, the Expanse just adds on a bit more; more impact, more detail. If I find any tracks where the Expanse gets beat in something, I'll update.

We've got another trader here, huh, commtrd? I bought some SPY 408 9/26 puts when it was at 430. In just the last couple weeks, that paid for every piece of audio equipment I've ever bought. Thank you, Powell.

Anyway, I fired up the Feliks Echo and that made some big changes, reminded me why I kept it around, it really wakes up the Verite. Completely flipped the bass impact situation on that, taking it from the worst to maybe even slightly more than the Expanse + Jotunheim 2, although it's very close. Removed most of that veil as well. BIG improvement. Interestingly the Expanse is quite bad with the Echo, the bass is downright ruined, it gets crispy/overblown like if you cranked a cheap subwoofer to max and played some bass boosted 192kbps mp3 electronica track on it. Tried the Utopia and Empyrean with the Echo as well, I like the Empyrean slightly better on the Jot and Utopia is kind of 50/50 where bass is better with the Echo but losing the black background of the Jot makes it sound less clear/sharp.

So I need to retest with the Verite + Echo but the others are fine as they were considering I mostly prefer them on the Jot.

 

[commtrd]

Ha yeah I trade the NQ nas futures contract. Made a bag this evening, don't usually trade Globex. Bag = 1k. I really want to get a Headtrip to work with the Expanse so better be on point while trading. The current volatility is crazy. Love it!

 

[commtrd]

Mini gsx too noisy for...most stuff, more so for Stealth/Expanse.

Well OK, but I have prolly over 10k hours+ on this amp (I use it every day trading and into the night doing price action replays etc) and I have never heard anything but deep dark black background and flawless performance on any and everything. I prolly don't know everything about amps but have to say this amp has been a stellar performer for me anyway. I fed a Hugo2 into it to start until that died, now a DENAFRIPS Ares II dac and this combo has been rockin' for sure. All good. Way good.

 

[commtrd]

How headphones and amplifiers and dacs happen LOL. This one sim because I hafta shower and go to bed. Unfortunately. Maria Daines blues cued up sublime.

 

[cpurdy]

Its amazing how you can create a $500 headphone and convince people to pay $4000 for it...

Headphones are not the only product in which the cost of production is not equal to the price charged for the product.

And yes, at the high end, that delta grows pretty large, because the quantities tend to grow very small.

Seems the Audeze LCD-X21 was compared to the Expanse.... isn't that a $1200 heaphone...

The incremental benefit is probably pretty small. It's hard for me to A/B any differences once headphones enter the $800+ range. I think that I can tell some slight differences here and there, but once I hear something on one set of headphones, I can usually find it on the other. But there does seem to be some correlation about which headphones I hear something on first. Footsteps walking up behind me, for example, on a song I had heard 1000x previously, but had never noticed that someone in the studio was walking around and it got picked up by a hot mic.

And pleasure. I do enjoy certain headphones more than others. Comfort. Ability to wear and listen for long periods of time without annoyance.

Have to disagree. Have you compared hd600 to for example Stealth? [..]
Of course there is a lot of gear in our hobby that doesn't perform (objectively) on par with it's asking price but headphones from Dan Clark are the exception.

I don't think that the HD600 is a good reference point to compare from; at least not the Massdrop version (I've never owned the originals). Very underwhelming, IMHO. And that's on a variety of DACs and amps (I just kept assuming there must be some combination that they wouldn't suck on.)

My daily listeners are DCA closed planars (Ether C Flows) and I love them. I've been a big fan of DCA ever since I heard them the first time ...

When you consider how it sounds in comparison to these other high end headphones you can call the price to be fair
(Not mentioning build quality - yes I'm talking about you Hifiman)

Build quality, and service. Ever tried getting parts from Hifiman? Great sounding headphones, but they're basically disposable

It appears that every time there is a major new release, the reviews all coincide and are always glowing, never negative (although given the prices, negative reviews are unlikely, right?). Any possible negative remarks only come out about a year later when yet another costly flagship comes out, and all of a sudden, the last great fs ain’t so great anymore. It’s a familiar pattern. So I can’t blame some for being a little sceptical and interpreting the mass reviews as promotion for the item that’s reviewed.

This is so totally true, and hilarious to watch.

But hey, we're all just overgrown kids with an expensive hobby and we can't wait to try the newest shiniest thing.

On the positive side, these new TOTL headphones should help drive down the HD800/820 prices

Then it's the wrong market segment for you. Keep to an HD600, they're still wonderful.

There's so many better options in that price range than an HD600, from my own experience (the Massdrop version). Other than head-overheating issues, Beyerdynamic (as just one example) seems to have a better offering at every price point; I'd take the 990 pros (often on sale in the states around $120) over the HD600 any day of the week. Maybe I just got a really bad pair of the HD600.

So I just left CanJam and wanted to post a few thoughts. I got to compare the Expanse against the Stealth and it was no contest, Expanse is an easy win for me. They are warmer, have better bass, and seem to have more low end impact.

That doesn't surprise me. Open headphones seem to have a natural benefit; it seems much harder for closed headphones to match the qualities of open headphones. On the other hand, when you need headphones that don't leak sound ...

The best I heard my Expanse was with a $10k woo tube amp. I’ll have to find the model. The source was the Lina dac without the clock. This had such amazing bass, both in quality and quantity. Also listened to the Abyss 1266 on top of line woo tube amp and while it sounded great, the Expanse sound maybe a touch better on the setup and to my ears, lot better on the $10k amp.

That's probably the WA23 or WA33. I have the WA5-LE, and it's amazing with planars. Actually, it's amazing with almost every headphone.

We've got another trader here, huh, commtrd? I bought some SPY 408 9/26 puts when it was at 430. In just the last couple weeks, that paid for every piece of audio equipment I've ever bought. Thank you, Powell.

Powell's only got the one knob left, and he keeps cranking on it.

Makes no sense to me; it's not like fuel prices went up because interest rates are low

 

[xirxes]

I may order the Expanse anyway even though I have a mini amp. Then later possibly upgrade to a Wells Audio Milo or better amp as funds permit.

I liked hte Milo very much, but make sure to get the external power supply or the Stealth reveals a low end humming that you cannot get rid of. Hit latest volume Pots are quite good compared to old ones too.

 

[xirxes]

I just ordered my Expanse yesterday and was looking at upgrading my Jot 2 to a Mini, as most reviews say that it has a slightly warmer tilt already when compared to Burson, Phonitor, or even Schiit. Have you heard the Expanse on any other SS amp around the Mini price point that you thought was better? I'm not interested in going down the tube route at this point. I'm using a Bifrost 2/64 as DAC for reference. I understand personal preference will be the ultimate judge, but where I live it's a buy-and-try scenario so I would like to at least target something that makes sense.

I have heard the same on the Mini vs the Mkii. Take a good look at XI audio Broadway, can sometimes get them at a real value used, but IME DCA cans want just the tinyest bit of stank on the warm end, people seem to also like the ferrum audio stack in this price range.

 

[xirxes]

Anyone here own the Expanse and the Stealth? I own the Stealth and maybe these for day listening?

I have both and I'm really torn. I personally think that they are both the closed and open champion position, with Susvara as a co-champ for those that want just a bit more sizzle in the high mids-treble.
I think that it will be inarguable that the Expanse actually is an all around more natural sounding set, with small margins ahead of stealth across the board in everything especially vocals, airiness, sound stage size and sting/wind instruments and the bass boost will be a winner for most.
Stealth have imaging and resolution on lock, and spectacular lack of bleed in-out from environment and such a great presentation of space in a closed back.
IM on the fence on which to keep and which to re-buy down the line, as i will definitely keep both eventually, just not now.

 

[801evan]

Well OK, but I have prolly over 10k hours+ on this amp (I use it every day trading and into the night doing price action replays etc) and I have never heard anything but deep dark black background and flawless performance on any and everything. I prolly don't know everything about amps but have to say this amp has been a stellar performer for me anyway. I fed a Hugo2 into it to start until that died, now a DENAFRIPS Ares II dac and this combo has been rockin' for sure. All good. Way good.

The impressions of how the Stealth sounds thin and lacks dynamics is evidence enough gsx mini is noisy.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I think that it will be inarguable that the Expanse actually is an all around more natural sounding set, with small margins ahead of stealth across the board in everything especially vocals, airiness, sound stage size and sting/wind instruments and the bass boost will be a winner for most.

Oh damn...

 

[DarginMahkum]

Despite the claims of Expanse and Stealth being very hard to drive, I love the pairing of Expanse with Topping G5. I was listening to this Cuban / African piece and it is a lot of fun with this pairing.

 

[801evan]

Despite the claims of Expanse and Stealth being very hard to drive, I love the pairing of Expanse with Topping G5. I was listening to this Cuban / African piece and it is a lot of fun with this pairing.

Yep. Even the speaker amp advocates have moved on and procured 2w amps. Sheeps havent caught on

 

[Trance_Gott]

Despite the claims of Expanse and Stealth being very hard to drive, I love the pairing of Expanse with Topping G5. I was listening to this Cuban / African piece and it is a lot of fun with this pairing.

I drive the Expanse at the moment with the M8 and what a fun!
Before with Niimbus. Yes it's a little better but I don't missed anything with M8.

 

[DarginMahkum]

I drive the Expanse at the moment with the M8 and what a fun!
Before with Niimbus. Yes it's a little better but I don't missed anything with M8.

Same here. I don't even feel like turning on my desktop amplifier as the difference is not huge (for a lazy man like me) and more than just satisfactory.

It is also interesting. Technically and tuning-wise Stealth and Expanse are much closer to each other, than they are different. Yet with a little tweak Expanse has become a fun machine even for those that didn't like the Stealth. I have to admit, my favorite is still the Stealth and I cannot think of any HP changing that (also considering I have been listening to Stealth nearly exclusively for a year and got used to it) but I have to acknowledge what Expanse is.

 

[Trance_Gott]

I never was a friend of Stealth but with Expanse the punchiness came and it works very well with metal!
Time will tell if I keep it with Susvara or CRBN or one of them must go.