[jlbrach]

I still hear it in front of me but it’s more like at a small club and standing right next to the stage. And for the most part in my teens, that’s exactly how I saw most shows. Could be why I have tinnitus now. There were a few shows I could barely hear when I left. I wish I could say it was worth it but rather not have ringing now.

One thing to note at CanJam, some people listen a crazy loud levels. I needed to remember to always turn the volume down before listening. Sadly think a lot of these people will also end up with tinnitus at some point if don’t change their habits. That’s one of best things about the Expanse is how well it performs at low levels. Not going to lie, I still turn it up but not like those crazy levels.

at a show with all the noise around you if you dont listen loud you will not be able to make any judgments...in truth I find at shows all I can really judge from a headphone is comfort and build quality

 

[ra990]

at a show with all the noise around you if you dont listen loud you will not be able to make any judgments...in truth I find at shows all I can really judge from a headphone is comfort and build quality

Most live shows, unless at an ideal venue for a classical concert, have horrible acoustics. There's no pinpoint soundstage at live amplified shows, there's just bass and compression.

I went to see Roger Waters a few weeks ago in DC. The sound was atrocious. The level of distortion and compression made it barely able to portray any single instrument well. He was speaking and nobody could understand him. People around me were screaming, "turn yourself down!". I don't know, I moved around the entire arena trying to find a good spot and eventually gave up. I left after the first set because I didn't want to hear these sacred songs butchered on this sound system. You could tell all the musicians had their IEMs on and were getting a really nice mix, but man, the audience was suffering.

The last time, he played at an open air venue that was made for music, and it was one of the best live amplified music I'd ever heard. I think he must have fired that guy or arenas just can't handle that SPL without crazy reflections and wreaking havoc to any attempted mix.

So, that's another reason why I consider the pinpoint Stealth imaging to be more the studio mix and the Expanse's weight and mass focused presentation more of an ideally mixed live show feel.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Most live shows, unless at an ideal venue for a classical concert, have horrible acoustics. There's no pinpoint soundstage at live amplified shows, there's just bass and compression.

I went to see Roger Waters a few weeks ago in DC. The sound was atrocious. The level of distortion and compression made it barely able to portray any single instrument well. He was speaking and nobody could understand him. People around me were screaming, "turn yourself down!". I don't know, I moved around the entire arena trying to find a good spot and eventually gave up. I left after the first set because I didn't want to hear these sacred songs butchered on this sound system. You could tell all the musicians had their IEMs on and were getting a really nice mix, but man, the audience was suffering.

The last time, he played at an open air venue that was made for music, and it was one of the best live amplified music I'd ever heard. I think he must have fired that guy or arenas just can't handle that SPL without crazy reflections and wreaking havoc to any attempted mix.

So, that's another reason why I consider the pinpoint Stealth imaging to be more the studio mix and the Expanse's weight and mass focused presentation more of an ideally mixed live show feel.

I like that comparison at the end. It makes me interested in the Expanse.

Also, live shows typically have terrible sound. I stopped going to shows at like 30 years old because it was too crowded and everything sounded bad. The only good thing about shows for me is the energy. I’m a big energy/vibe person, and I think that’s why I like some of the headphones I like (as well as the genres too I guess).

 

[jlbrach]

I like that comparison at the end. It makes me interested in the Expanse.

Also, live shows typically have terrible sound. I stopped going to shows at like 30 years old because it was too crowded and everything sounded bad. The only good thing about shows for me is the energy. I’m a big energy/vibe person, and I think that’s why I like some of the headphones I like (as well as the genres too I guess).

the expanse is great I think you would like it

 

[chargedcapacitor]

I like that comparison at the end. It makes me interested in the Expanse.

Also, live shows typically have terrible sound. I stopped going to shows at like 30 years old because it was too crowded and everything sounded bad. The only good thing about shows for me is the energy. I’m a big energy/vibe person, and I think that’s why I like some of the headphones I like (as well as the genres too I guess).

Open air concerts, that's where it's at!

 

[EMINENT]

Update...

I did a stock stint last night and I think I have either brain burn in or they have burned in as they are sounding ok with little to no eq compared to my first impressions. Interestingly, I discovered my 6700k can do DSD512 with some light filters in HQP since I am not using any peq/convo in the pipeline. That made them pretty enjoyable!

 

[iamoneagain]

So playing around a little bit more. Thought maybe Billy Joel - Piano Man might sound better with the Stealth EQ but it comes across lifeless. The piano is missing weight and when it kicks in, there’s no excitement. Sounds much better with Expanse default settings.

 

[EMINENT]

So playing around a little bit more. Thought maybe Billy Joel - Piano Man might sound better with the Stealth EQ but it comes across lifeless. The piano is missing weight and when it kicks in, there’s no excitement. Sounds much better with Expanse default settings.

Yeah, less bass isn't something i'd want for sure. Maybe if you're only listening to flutes and violins.

 

[DarginMahkum]

But as you have also experienced, for a whole year we had Stealth bashers in the Stealth thread. Many claimed the bass is lacking, but you also know...it is no way lacking any bass.

Yeah, that is my comment. Even as an owner of Susvara I don't prefer going to the Susvara thread and claim the mids are lacking, although this is what I am convinced of (which you also tried to convince me for otherwise in the Stealth thread). Stealth thread was crowded with people calling it a piece of trash "as it lacks bass", over and over again. Interestingly, I bought my second Stealth from someone that thought it had too much bass, and it has a fair bit of (especially) subbass, which was also mentioned many times. The problem is, many of those bashers just listened to a specific type of music and based on that did some harsh comments on the tuning - which many including me found in most of the cases to be perfect.

In many cases, even a remix of the same recording might sound OK with one tuning, while original is over/under punchy. Saying "X many users prefer Stealth and (100 - X) users prefer Stealth is a generalisation from a manufactureres point of view, but a user perspective analysis should include the 1) age factor 2) music preferences 3) bias 4...) gender, loudness etc etc. to make a proper analysis. Most of the people claiming the Stealth to lack bass often mention a specific type(s) of music and this is not a coincidence, and I don't think a statistical analysis of "bass enoughness" just based on sales preferences is enough to shut us up, so that some people don't lose sleep while reading our comments about the bass being enough. If you absolutely want to not see my comments about the bass on Stealth being enough, you are welcome to ignore me.

By the way, it is also interesting for the people to denounce Harman target but praise the numbers when statistics work in their favor.

 

[801evan]

Yeah, that is my comment. Even as an owner of Susvara I prefer don't prefer going to the Susvara thread and claim the mids are lacking, although this is what I am convinced of (which you also tried to convince me for otherwise in the Stealth thread). Stealth thread was crowded with people calling it a piece of trash "as it lacks bass", over and over again. Interestingly, I bought my second Stealth from someone that thought it had too much bass, and it has a fair bit of (especially) subbass, which was also mentioned many times. The problem is, many of those bashers just listened to a specific type of music and based on that did some harsh comments on the tuning - which many including me found in most of the cases to be perfect.

In many cases, even a remix of the same recording might sound OK with one tuning, while original is over/under punchy. Saying "X many users prefer Stealth and (100 - X) users prefer Stealth is a generalisation from a producers point of view, but a user perspective analysis should include the 1) age factor 2) music preferences 3,4...) gender, loudness etc etc. to make a proper analysis. Most of the people claiming the Stealth to lack bass often mention a specific type(s) of music and this is not a coincidence, and I don't think a statistical analysis of "bass enoughness" just based on sales preferences is enough to shut us up, so that some people don't lose sleep while reading our comments about the bass being enough. If you absolutely want to not see my comments about the bass on Stealth being enough, you are welcome to ignore me.

By the way, it is also interesting for the people to denounce Harman target but praise the numbers when statistics work in their favor.

It's amazing how forgiving people are on the lack of bass and mid bass on the Susvara compared to number of pitchforks over at the Stealth thread.

 

[Nomax]

It's amazing how forgiving people are on the lack of bass and mid bass on the Susvara compared to number of pitchforks over at the Stealth thread.

Not only Susvara....

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dan...ents-impressions.964852/page-56#post-17164308

NOMAX

PS.I've been doing this for 22 years now, but I've never laughed as much as I did this year
(In this case, I would have to advise everyone that they must sell all their headphones because most of them have to less and therefore do not sound good enough)
A very good tonal performance has much more to offer for me than just bass/low end

 

[Random Lunatic]

Yeah, that is my comment. Even as an owner of Susvara I don't prefer going to the Susvara thread and claim the mids are lacking, although this is what I am convinced of (which you also tried to convince me for otherwise in the Stealth thread). Stealth thread was crowded with people calling it a piece of trash "as it lacks bass", over and over again. Interestingly, I bought my second Stealth from someone that thought it had too much bass, and it has a fair bit of (especially) subbass, which was also mentioned many times. The problem is, many of those bashers just listened to a specific type of music and based on that did some harsh comments on the tuning - which many including me found in most of the cases to be perfect.

In many cases, even a remix of the same recording might sound OK with one tuning, while original is over/under punchy. Saying "X many users prefer Stealth and (100 - X) users prefer Stealth is a generalisation from a manufactureres point of view, but a user perspective analysis should include the 1) age factor 2) music preferences 3) bias 4...) gender, loudness etc etc. to make a proper analysis. Most of the people claiming the Stealth to lack bass often mention a specific type(s) of music and this is not a coincidence, and I don't think a statistical analysis of "bass enoughness" just based on sales preferences is enough to shut us up, so that some people don't lose sleep while reading our comments about the bass being enough. If you absolutely want to not see my comments about the bass on Stealth being enough, you are welcome to ignore me.

By the way, it is also interesting for the people to denounce Harman target but praise the numbers when statistics work in their favor.

To be fair, I’d be pretty upset too, if I spent 4000, only to find they don’t work with half my music, when there are <100$ headphones that manage all the genres. Past DCA headphones have had a distinct dull property, sapping the perceived impact and excitement - I for one hope the stealth or the expanse have fixed it, since I love the build quality.
I look forward to hearing them some day.

 

[DarginMahkum]

To be fair, I’d be pretty upset too, if I spent 4000, only to find they don’t work with half my music, when there are <100$ headphones that manage all the genres. Past DCA headphones have had a distinct dull property, sapping the perceived impact and excitement - I for one hope the stealth or the expanse have fixed it, since I love the build quality.
I look forward to hearing them some day.

Frankly these useless discussions have been going on nearly a year. Maybe the best is just to ignore them.

 

[Random Lunatic]

Frankly these useless discussions have been going on nearly a year. Maybe the best is just to ignore them.

To the extent that they remain relevant to a large portion of potential customers, there is nothing useless about them.
If its not an issue for you, that's great for you, but evidently its been an issue to some - me included. Which should also be useful for DCA to know about, since those are potential customers if they solve said issue; unless they don't think this can be done without some other compromise which they're unwilling to make of course - which is fair.

That said, no discussion is being had here I gues, I simply wanted to weigh in that there was good reason to be critical - since fx. there has been an apparently known issue and potential cause for the perceived lack of bass in that up until the Expanse, past models of DCA apparently did not handle leakage well, causing the bass to roll off severely (and since no seal is perfect on a human head, usually, this might cause issues for many). However apparently the Expanse has solved this. Hence why I'm curious if this was the root cause of the issue, and if it is now solved. In which case I might be interested in trying a pair - quite useful information I'd say, since its what they make their living from.

At any rate, until more people get to try them and report back, there is indeed not much more to be said.

 

[iamoneagain]

Not sure if this is off topic but I find the way we perceive soundstage interesting just based on that slight mid bass adjustment. Lowering it moves the field in front of you and increases the depth and precision of location. The off topic part is what Chord claims they are doing with the mscaler. It really is just making a steeper filter but when you compare it on vs off, there is just slightly less warmth overall when on. The claim is that the timing is increasing the depth but could it just be this slight difference in warmth? Could that also be why some people don’t hear the improvement because there headphones are already too warm. So a simple EQ adjustment can basically bring you more depth in your soundstage.

Are there any really warm headphones that still have great depth? I had the very warm L3000 and it too felt like you were right at the stage but then 3D like from there. The Utopia are kind of blend we’re some say it’s too bright but then has that mid bass punch so soundstage is also small but 3D. That replica Sony R10 claims to have amazing soundstage for a closed headphone but then said it somewhat lacks bass.