[iamoneagain]

I'm making the logical and charitable assumption that in the face of the differences, the audiophile user evaluation is likely the more objective and uncolored by other (business) considerations. "If the Expanse can offer the same information without causing ear pain..." is the very question being investigated, whether this is successfully done by the Expanse without too many negative tradeoffs. Concerning the claim the treble is lacking in energy, you just need to look at the response plot to see a deep and sharp dip in response of about 13 dB centered at about 10 kHz, right in the treble range.

Isn’t that dip normal for measurements? I just looked at Focal Utopia and same thing. Someone who knows better can chime in. Think it’s more the measuring equipment than the headphones themselves. Really suppose to look at how well it measures below 10 khz.

 

[ra990]

Isn’t that dip normal for measurements? I just looked at Focal Utopia and same thing. Someone who knows better can chime in. Think it’s more the measuring equipment than the headphones themselves. Really suppose to look at how well the measures below 10 khz.

Even before 10k, in fact 6 to 10k (if you look at the plot I posted a few posts back) there is recessed treble compared to the Stealth. They're plotted right on top of one another, it's easy to see. But, even if that's not it, just bumping up the midbass region will have the effect of recessing the treble a bit. Again, compared to the Stealth...from the EQ @Nomax found works, just turning down the midbass brings back spatial qualities more akin to Stealth on the Expanse.

 

[ThanatosVI]

They are weirdly satisfying to listen to at very low volume.
Not sure why that is yet.

 

[ra990]

They are weirdly satisfying to listen to at very low volume.
Not sure why that is yet.

Agreed, there is more rumble at lower volumes than other headphones I've heard.

 

[iamoneagain]

There is also the doubt that I have the ability and knowledge to properly muck about with EQing these headphones that have been purposely set up with the waveguide filter that is placed between ear and driver. Plus the only headphone I have been listening to for several years and many thousands of hours is the LCD4z. So going on what is being presented here, the Expanse may well be a proper transition headphone compared to what I have been used to hearing?

I posted that I thought they sounded terrible on first listen. It’s like I couldn’t process the sound to get any soundstage. It was so weird. But burning the headphones and my brain since I’ve got them, I’ve come around quickly. Have since sold my Utopia. I’d say about 80% of what I’m listening seems to sound better on the Expanse. I do come across a few albums where I’m not feeling it as much. Where more energy is needed than resolution. The good news is albums I had an issue with when I owned the Dave/mscaler still sound good with the Naim HE and Expanse. Stuff like Husker Du and The Jesus and Mary Chain are still enjoyable and not overly harsh. So they offer more resolution but not at the expense of losing their fun.

 

[iamoneagain]

Even before 10k, in fact 6 to 10k (if you look at the plot I posted a few posts back) there is recessed treble compared to the Stealth. They're plotted right on top of one another, it's easy to see. But, even if that's not it, just bumping up the midbass region will have the effect of recessing the treble a bit. Again, compared to the Stealth...from the EQ @Nomax found works, just turning down the midbass brings back spatial qualities more akin to Stealth on the Expanse.

Yeah, I see what you’re saying. I’m sure people would like the best of both worlds but I guess there might be a small price to pay for added bass. I’ll take that price. I guess for others, you’ll have to wait for the Expanse 2 - The Expansion

 

[Rasuti]

Coming from my HEKSE, I think the first day is the only time I thought they were muffled, took a couple hours for my brain to figure out that they aren't. However, I also wrestled with the SS perception across the few days, comparing the two.

HEKSE seemed more open possibly cause of its FR in upper treble (shimmer/air feeling). Also my ears are kind of medium-big so the roomier HEKSE also attributed to that, not to mention the AMTS on the Expanse attenuating more than a typical open-back headphone, it compounds together seeming not as open, at least for me.

However as I kept listening, and even compared them yesterday, and Expanse just felt more cohesive, and immersive, not lacking if not having more in SS. Microdetail easily appearing (hearing whispers/instruments as if it should've been obvious before), room information conveyed (depends on the track also). Nuances in guitars, oscillations in vocals. Especially vocals, man they have a really addictive quality. The tuning really works for me I guess.

Spent more time sinking into the music than critically listening, most importantly though, no fatigue! They also reopened up my library of songs that with my HEKSE I thought was unlistenable. I spent Tuesday evening listening into Wednesday morning... roughly 15 hours, interrupted by normal human functions of course, and the whole weekend listening to music. It was hard not having goosebumps enjoying myself so much... could be honeymoon/new toy syndrome, but I am having fun at the end of the day.

Honestly worried that I would suddenly not enjoy the HEKSE after them, but they still sounded good, just.. not Expanse good, and I was not even planning on getting this headphone. I thought I was satisfied where I was, opened head-fi, now here I am. With that said, back to listening.

Must be these damn head-fi mosquitoes... making me consider getting a stealth too, STOP!

 

[ra990]

OK, I am listening to the MFSL version of Dark Side of the Moon and I'm hearing a decent connected stage. I still feel like the stage is pulled back and there's not much going on in front of me, but I am hearing a slightly larger center image that is connecting the left and right above my head, a bit like a rainbow shape. That's an improvement from what I'd been hearing where there was little connection between the two sides. The clarity, resolution, smoothness even during busy harsh parts like the screaming chorus in Us and Them are fantastic even at louder volumes. Bass and drums, of course, are a lot of fun...

So, it's definitely more recording dependent, and probably very gear dependent as well. As were the Stealth.

 

[commtrd]

Hmmm could be that a listener that is not so knowledgeable about micro-details and SS etc might not have the same difficulties with the staging and perceived treble issues? I am sure I have maybe "silver ears" not golden ears LOL. Total education reading analyses from the participants in the thread. One thing for sure, the setup I currently have has almost no soundstage at all outside of my head that I can tell anyway, so any SS that I would hear with the Expanse or Stealth would have to be a huge improvement... prolly just don't know what I don't know.

 

[ra990]

One thing for sure, the setup I currently have has almost no soundstage at all outside of my head that I can tell anyway, so any SS that I would hear with the Expanse or Stealth would have to be a huge improvement... prolly just don't know what I don't know.

It's all kind of relative. If you have other headphones that give you a more outside of the head experience, then that's all you really need to be able to compare and know that's possible. I can say definitively that the Meze Elites are more open and spacious, and I don't think any different gear will make Expanse sound as open and spacious as they do. But, compared to the Ether 2 or Aeon 2 or LCD5, etc...these would be more open sounding. The more you listen to various gear, the more you'll know what you are and aren't hearing.

 

[Rasuti]

Hmmm could be that a listener that is not so knowledgeable about micro-details and SS etc might not have the same difficulties with the staging and perceived treble issues? I am sure I have maybe "silver ears" not golden ears LOL. Total education reading analyses from the participants in the thread. One thing for sure, the setup I currently have has almost no soundstage at all outside of my head that I can tell anyway, so any SS that I would hear with the Expanse or Stealth would have to be a huge improvement... prolly just don't know what I don't know.

It's definitely possible, I consider myself a beginner still. I am weird anyway as I considered the HEKSE more spacious than an HD800s. So definitely take my impressions with a lake made of salt.

Should try them out again someday.

 

[iamoneagain]

What’s kind of weird is some people are saying the Stealth is more opening sounding. Normally with a closed headphone you get people saying it has more bass but is closed in compared to a similar open back. But it’s the opposite with the Stealth and the Expanse. I didn’t listen long enough to the Stealth really spot the differences in soundstage.

I will say when you first put the Expanse on without music, it’s more like putting on a closed headphone. You lose that airflow of an open headphone and sounds are muffled around you. Other open backs I’ve heard block no noise or air. Compared to the Utopia, it blocks about 2/3 of the sounds coming in and out. My wife said they are much quieter than the Utopia when sitting about 10 feet away.

 

[ra990]

Here's something else I've noticed...when I listen to open-back headphones, I will occasionally hear something that I think came from outside my room or way behind me that will make me take my headphones off and look around to make sure it wasn't. That's what I mean by open soundstage, where it feels like the music is coming from the room you're in and not what you're wearing around your head. That hasn't happened to me a single time with the Expanse yet. I'm always very aware that everything is playing out between the headphones right around my head. Even with the most spacious of albums I'm familiar with, like big binaural albums like Yosi Horikawa or some Chesky recordings.

 

[BournePerfect]

Sounds like you need some 300Bs in the chain. And detailed thoughts on microdetail, plankton, transparency comparisons vs the Elite? Elite impressions themselves seem to be wildly polarizing in these regards around here ime.

 

[iamoneagain]

Here's something else I've noticed...when I listen to open-back headphones, I will occasionally hear something that I think came from outside my room or way behind me that will make me take my headphones off and look around to make sure it wasn't. That's what I mean by open soundstage, where it feels like the music is coming from the room you're in and not what you're wearing around your head. That hasn't happened to me a single time with the Expanse yet. I'm always very aware that everything is playing out between the headphones right around my head. Even with the most spacious of albums I'm familiar with, like big binaural albums like Yosi Horikawa or some Chesky recordings.

If you have Qobuz, have you tried this one? Sounds pretty open to me.