[Grimlock248]

I see no point in suggesting an entirely different headphone when I'm asking about amps, however I'll stop asking on here and try to figure it out on my own

Know which voices to ignore here. I’m driving mine with the iFi Signature Finale and it sounds great. $300 on sale now at Adorama for combo amp / dac.

Edit - for those wanting portable driving option, the iFi could work. It’s getting more “transportable” size than portable, but if you’re packing the E3 in its case and its cable in its bag, you’re probably using a bag or container that can fit the iFi as well. Good for taking with you to set up at table or desk somewhere - less good for walking around with it in your pocket while listening.

 

[hanumanbob]

This is contrary to almost everything I’ve heard in the hobby (and think myself) - headphones > amps > dacs (ignoring source, pad rolling, etc.) I think most are much better off spending more on better headphones driven by adequate amp / dac. Take this with a grain of salt, as I’m not someone with the talent to know what a headphone “should” exactly sound like.

I think that some have much better hearing. I’ve gone through lots of gear in the last 6 months and it’s the headphones that provide the most variety for me and then probably pads. But hearing fine differences between well built cables are way beyond my hearing my hearing abilities. DACS and amps can sound different but I’d rather spend money playing with headphones. I do love my RME DAC that has hardware EQ tho.

 

[Luckyleo]

[

Know which voices to ignore here. I’m driving mine with the iFi Signature Finale and it sounds great. $300 on sale now at Adorama for combo amp / dac.

Edit - for those wanting portable driving option, the iFi could work. It’s getting more “transportable” size than portable, but if you’re packing the E3 in its case and its cable in its bag, you’re probably using a bag or container that can fit the iFi as well. Good for taking with you to set up at table or desk somewhere - less good for walking around with it in your pocket while listening.

Personally, I was shocked at the difference between a good DAC and a great DAC with the amp and headphones staying the same. I used to believe as you currently do. Very surprising for me. Have you retired/sold your $1,000+ DAC? Did you notice any difference when you downgraded?

Curious to know. Thanks!

Leo

 

[hanumanbob]

[

Personally, I was shocked at the difference between a good DAC and a great DAC with the amp and headphones staying the same. I used to believe as you currently do. Very surprising for me. Have you retired/sold your $1,000+ DAC? Did you notice any difference when you downgraded?

Curious to know. Thanks!

Leo

I have only owned up to Caldera and tried Empyrean II. I suppose once you go up to the 5-6k Susvara -1266 range and then spend 5k on DAC amp there probably is a noticeable difference but having a $5k headset and a $500 DAC/AMP is probably not going to be able to get out everything that the HP has to offer.

 

[Waddiewadkins]

I have only owned up to Caldera and tried Empyrean II. I suppose once you go up to the 5-6k Susvara -1266 range and then spend 5k on DAC amp there probably is a noticeable difference but having a $5k headset and a $500 DAC/AMP is probably not going to be able to get out everything that the HP has to offer.

I really need to move to a country where I can try all this out!

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I was just about to point this out. Verify before posting. I cannot remember seeing an output impedance anywhere near 50 ohms for an amp.

Some solid state amps have feature to increase the impedance out. Like ZMG Homage at 47 Ohm and Cayin IHA6 at 120 ohm. You need to "activate" this feature though, as default they are quite at low impedance.

 

[Grimlock248]

[

Personally, I was shocked at the difference between a good DAC and a great DAC with the amp and headphones staying the same. I used to believe as you currently do. Very surprising for me. Have you retired/sold your $1,000+ DAC? Did you notice any difference when you downgraded?

Curious to know. Thanks!

Leo

I haven’t heard a $1000+ DAC yet. Hopefully someday I’ll get the chance to see for myself. I don’t doubt it might make SOME difference, but I think diminishing returns is real, and the influence of headphones > amps > dacs combined with that means spending a large amount on a dac over a better headphone makes little sense. Maybe once you get to endgame headphone then it makes sense to boost the rest of the chain as well. This is based on my own prior experience and the data and opinions I’ve seen from those whose opinions I trust.

You can say “but you haven’t heard it yourself!”, which is true - I could be wrong, but I also haven’t heard $1000 cables, yet I don’t think they would really help my experience either.

Also, you said the difference of a DAC “with the amp and headphones staying the same”. That wasn’t the case with my prior point, where someone was suggesting downgrading headphones in favor of prioritizing “better” amp / DAC. That is backwards to me.

 

[hanumanbob]

I haven’t heard a $1000+ DAC yet. Hopefully someday I’ll get the chance to see for myself. I don’t doubt it might make SOME difference, but I think diminishing returns is real, and the influence of headphones > amps > dacs combined with that means spending a large amount on a dac over a better headphone makes little sense. Maybe once you get to endgame headphone then it makes sense to boost the rest of the chain as well. This is based on my own prior experience and the data and opinions I’ve seen from those whose opinions I trust.

You can say “but you haven’t heard it yourself!”, which is true - I could be wrong, but I also haven’t heard $1000 cables, yet I don’t think they would really help my experience either.

Also, you said the difference of a DAC “with the amp and headphones staying the same”. That wasn’t the case with my prior point, where someone was suggesting downgrading headphones in favor of prioritizing “better” amp / DAC. That is backwards to me.

I think you need an ultra resolving headphone to start hearing differences. And that means over $3000 and $5000

 

[Grimlock248]

I think you need an ultra resolving headphone to start hearing differences. And that means over $3000 and $5000

This would agree with my current opinion - get to endgame with headphones before going very high end with amp, and especially dac.

 

[Terriero]

I haven’t heard a $1000+ DAC yet. Hopefully someday I’ll get the chance to see for myself. I don’t doubt it might make SOME difference, but I think diminishing returns is real, and the influence of headphones > amps > dacs combined with that means spending a large amount on a dac over a better headphone makes little sense. Maybe once you get to endgame headphone then it makes sense to boost the rest of the chain as well. This is based on my own prior experience and the data and opinions I’ve seen from those whose opinions I trust.

You can say “but you haven’t heard it yourself!”, which is true - I could be wrong, but I also haven’t heard $1000 cables, yet I don’t think they would really help my experience either.

Also, you said the difference of a DAC “with the amp and headphones staying the same”. That wasn’t the case with my prior point, where someone was suggesting downgrading headphones in favor of prioritizing “better” amp / DAC. That is backwards to me.

I recommend to you to take a look at the "Sound science" sub-forum and then decide whatever you want

 

[judomaniak57]

Specs make these look very hard to drive. Anybody out there try e3 with the bryston hp1 headphone amp

 

[Cecala]

Some solid state amps have feature to increase the impedance out. Like ZMG Homage at 47 Ohm and Cayin IHA6 at 120 ohm. You need to "activate" this feature though, as default they are quite at low impedance.

I stand corrected.

 

[Cecala]

Well, the Bottlehead Crack OTL tube amp has a 120 ohm output impedance, but that’s an anomaly for sure. But, you should know in case!

Ditto.

 

[Currawong]

I think you need an ultra resolving headphone to start hearing differences. And that means over $3000 and $5000

I think the E3 does a pretty good job at $2000 of resolving the difference between, say, a Bifrost 2/64 and the Yggdrasil A2/OG. Sure, I can hear a bit more with a pair of Utopias, but that also assumes that my music is very well recorded and mastered.

I recommend to you to take a look at the "Sound science" sub-forum and then decide whatever you want

I wouldn't. There is near no science in there.

Specs make these look very hard to drive. Anybody out there try e3 with the bryston hp1 headphone amp

Not really. You can run them from a dongle DAC, but I'd recommend better, as you'll notice a difference. The Bryston looks like it can output up to 2.9W at 30 Ohms, which is quite sufficient. It'd be interesting to get impressions through if someone has tried the pairing.

 

[plakat]

I stand corrected.

There’s even a very old norm (DIN I think) that specifies 100ohm output impedance for headphone outputs… but I think only Beyerdynamic offered amps to that spec. And made the A2 switchable between ~0ohm and 100ohm.
If the headphone has a linear impedance curve like planars do that probably won’t matter much (except maybe the damping is affected, though that might be more of a thing with dynamic drivers).
Overall an amp with low output impedance is more versatile, so I’d go for that.

I still have to try the E3 with the Mojo2 (I don’t own the Mojo, so I have to visit my local shop), but I’d say if Dan says it’s fine, that’s something to go by: he won’t want his headphone demoed with a bad match that doesn’t do the E3 justice…

Overall I didn’t use my E3 that much the past few weeks, but love it every time I do. I’m still not 100% happy with how the headband gets bent when folded up into its case, but the headband got softer and comfort is fine.

Next stop: higher efficiency smaller cups would also help, but it’s mostly the square form that bothers me a bit. Anyway, an excellent headphone. Looking forward to what Dan comes up with next. Though that doesn’t have to be too soon, the E3 should have time to shine.