[Redcarmoose]

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pi2aes-pro-audio-shield.948380/

 

[ChaChaRealSmooth]

What would go on inside 'DAC 'A' to make it sound different to 'DAC 'B'?

Great question. There's a lot of factors involved, and it gets more confusing because in theory, it shouldn't make a difference. After all, what a DAC is really doing is converting digital to analog.

For better or worse, different chips have different sounds. AKM stuff sounds nothing like Cirrus stuff, which sounds nothing like ESS Sabre, etc. And to complicate things further, most renowned manufactures will choose to implement their own analog outputs onto the circuit. Different output stages do indeed sound different.

Also in consideration is the choice of filter. Every DAC uses it, whether it's a Parks-McClellan or Schiit's custom R2R filter, minimum phase, linear phase, etc etc. These all sound different, and handle the remainder of the bits in different ways.

Ultimately, it's not worth worrying about. Use whatever sounds best to you. Do keep in mind though that sufficiently resolving downstream is required to hear the differences in the upstream, and none of the changes are going to be nearly as drastic as change in transducer. And another thing; system synergy matters way more than having the most expensive, bestest thing ever.

 

[bfreedma]

I remember when we used to have some high quality trolling around here. The kind you could appreciate, even if it was frustrating.

Our current crop of trolls is a huge disappointment.

 

[ThEvil0nE]

It all comes down to how the chip is implemented down to it's final analog output stage. Best case scenario is between hifi oriented converters to pro audio converters, one is used more of a tool than anything. Doesn't stop there tho as the DAC is not your first and final stop when listening to music.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Amps sound diffident.

 

[PointyFox]

Amps sound diffident.

That must be why expensive ones sound better

 

[bigshot]

So it seems you need this expensive player to hear the difference?

No, you just have to be crazy like the guy in the video.

 

[Poganin]

So, it doesn't really matter which manufacturer's chips are in your DAC?

 

[340519]

Some sort of DSP, equalization or tone control set differently.

Yes. bigshot is the most intelligent headfi member I have ever encountered. He is always well thought out, logical, and right.

 

[bigshot]

Horse sense.

So, it doesn't really matter which manufacturer's chips are in your DAC?

Not as long as it's performing to spec. Digital audio is generally audibly transparent, meaning that it can reproduce sound better than you can hear. As long as something is playing back a lossless file properly, it should sound the same as any other component playing back properly.

 

[castleofargh]

Great question. There's a lot of factors involved, and it gets more confusing because in theory, it shouldn't make a difference. After all, what a DAC is really doing is converting digital to analog.

For better or worse, different chips have different sounds. AKM stuff sounds nothing like Cirrus stuff, which sounds nothing like ESS Sabre, etc. And to complicate things further, most renowned manufactures will choose to implement their own analog outputs onto the circuit. Different output stages do indeed sound different.

Also in consideration is the choice of filter. Every DAC uses it, whether it's a Parks-McClellan or Schiit's custom R2R filter, minimum phase, linear phase, etc etc. These all sound different, and handle the remainder of the bits in different ways.

Ultimately, it's not worth worrying about. Use whatever sounds best to you. Do keep in mind though that sufficiently resolving downstream is required to hear the differences in the upstream, and none of the changes are going to be nearly as drastic as change in transducer. And another thing; system synergy matters way more than having the most expensive, bestest thing ever.

Anything can cause an objective change in sound, but not every change in sound can be heard. Hearing threshold is a thing we're supposed to determine by ear, not by how some rational about tech seems intuitively sound when discussed without specifying any magnitude of change at all.

 

[Poganin]

Not as long as it's performing to spec. Digital audio is generally audibly transparent, meaning that it can reproduce sound better than you can hear. As long as something is playing back a lossless file properly, it should sound the same as any other component playing back properly.

Lovely, thank you.

 

[InstantSilence]

Lovely, thank you.

Its not that simple. Components and implementation matter. You won't hear a difference unless your components are decent enough to offer the resolution available, I too, couldn't tell a difference when I was listening to the low end schiit stuff with a decade old hd600

 

[Deolum]

Horse sense.



Not as long as it's performing to spec. Digital audio is generally audibly transparent, meaning that it can reproduce sound better than you can hear. As long as something is playing back a lossless file properly, it should sound the same as any other component playing back properly.

Just out of curiosity. Did you ever listen to different Dacs with extremely detailed headphones like the Utopia and electrostats or is all you say based completely on theory?

 

[bigshot]

The proper combination of components matter, but I think you would be very hard pressed to find a DAC, DAP, disc player or amp that doesn't produce sound better than human ears can hear. The transducers are the wild card. You'll need to make sure you are using the right amp for your transducers, particularly with IEMs. But beyond that the main difference between electronics is features, not audible sound quality.

Just out of curiosity. Did you ever listen to different Dacs with extremely detailed headphones like the Utopia and electrostats or is all you say based completely on theory?

I have Oppo PM-1s and a really good screening/listening room with a multichannel speaker system. I've compared DACs and players from the Oppo HA-1 and BDP-103 to a ProTools workstation, to all manner of Mac stuff, all the way down to $100 Sony and Pioneer blu-ray players and a $40 Walmart DVD player.

Headphones and speakers all sound different. You have to spend money to get quality there. But price in electronic components dictates features, not fidelity. A $5 DAC chip is audibly transparent and most electronics are made from the same stock off the shelf parts, all of which were designed to be audible transparent.