DAC difference
Jan 9, 2022 at 9:56 PM Post #571 of 577
What formats are you looking for?
 
Jan 9, 2022 at 10:03 PM Post #572 of 577
Nothing in particular, just don’t want to be limited for anything for the future. I’d like the Dac to be able to use airplay but it’s not a must.
 
Jan 10, 2022 at 1:58 AM Post #573 of 577
Nothing in particular, just don’t want to be limited for anything for the future. I’d like the Dac to be able to use airplay but it’s not a must.
So you want a DAC first or a streamer first. You can USB in airplay or do some kind of SPDIF converter if your want to primarily use a computer. A Raspberry pi or other kind if bluos streamer only set up can work to if you're not allergic to transports or wireless tech.

Or you're looking for an all in one black box? What are you driving? Speakers or headphones? Because if Apple Music is also the caveat, the camera adapter to USB is your best bet to hardwire a phone Lightning-->USBA-->USBC/C
 
Jan 10, 2022 at 5:21 AM Post #574 of 577
I posted this on another forum. All this info, can someone recommend a true balanced Dac that supports tons of different formats for under $500? Just clean “calibrated?” sound.
SMSL SU9n would be a good choice. Good objective performance, sounds good, affordable, compact, bal+rca out, and some sound tuning features too if you want
 
Jan 10, 2022 at 5:23 AM Post #575 of 577
Nothing in particular, just don’t want to be limited for anything for the future. I’d like the Dac to be able to use airplay but it’s not a must.
Very few DACs will have airplay support.
But you can do something such as getting an off the shelf product like a bluesound node, or if you're happy to flash an SD card yourself, get a raspberry pi and put 'RopieeeXL' on it. This supports roon, HQPlayer NAA, airplay, spotify connect, DNLA/UPNP (chromecast) and a few others.

Just as a word of advice though as it may help you to find what you're looking for easier, generally when people say 'format' they're referring to PCM vs DSD etc.
If you're describing particular bluetooth codecs or streaming protocols you probably want to specify those directly
 
Jan 10, 2022 at 7:27 AM Post #576 of 577
[1] Sampling above 48khz any roll off will be ABOVE audible band and any good slow or fast filter will remove ultrasonic components prior to artifacts folding back into the audible frequency (impulse and phase are the only considerations here as ultrasonic are filtered and roll-off not an issue).

[2] NOS, true NOS, should only be used with sample rates above 48Khz to avoid roll off and will still have loads of ultrasonic artifacts folded back into the audible FR.

Good post, a couple of minor discrepancies though, so just to nit-pick a little:

1. Commonly, the roll-off will be above the audible band even with 44.1kHz. The typical filter transition band for 44.1kHz would be 20kHz - 22.05kHz.

2. That would only be the case in a NOS ADC, of which there are none AFAIK. As far as I'm aware, during the ADC process ultrasonic content (content above the Nyquist Freq) will cause "images" that fold-back/alias into the audible FR (the range below the Nyquist Freq). This is eliminated by the use of anti-alias filters in all ADCs. The DAC process on the other hand produces images above the Nyquist Freq, not images folded-back/aliased into the audible FR. However, it's entirely possible that the end result of a DAC not filtering these ultrasonic images could cause artefacts in the audible FR, as they're likely to cause IMD downstream.

G
 
Jan 10, 2022 at 1:15 PM Post #577 of 577
Good post, a couple of minor discrepancies though, so just to nit-pick a little:

1. Commonly, the roll-off will be above the audible band even with 44.1kHz. The typical filter transition band for 44.1kHz would be 20kHz - 22.05kHz.

2. That would only be the case in a NOS ADC, of which there are none AFAIK. As far as I'm aware, during the ADC process ultrasonic content (content above the Nyquist Freq) will cause "images" that fold-back/alias into the audible FR (the range below the Nyquist Freq). This is eliminated by the use of anti-alias filters in all ADCs. The DAC process on the other hand produces images above the Nyquist Freq, not images folded-back/aliased into the audible FR. However, it's entirely possible that the end result of a DAC not filtering these ultrasonic images could cause artefacts in the audible FR, as they're likely to cause IMD downstream.

G
2) sounds right. The images are visible on the O Scope for sure when not filtered out and just endless mirrors like Butterfly wings reduced in dB every pair. MQA has been demonstrated to introduce ultrasonic foldback, noise in the audible band, and introduce ghost ultrasonics that weren't present on the same recording in its Redbook version. I just don't know why people would be messing around with filters when they're running NOS DAC's and HQ player upsampling above 192.

1) The RME Definitely rolls off before 20khz unless sharp / SD sharp (linear fast / minimal fast). The passband you referenced should be in line with fast filters/brick wall. It rolls off really early in NOS (super slow) and while it's a bad impulse and has ultra sonics, it does tame treble if left uncorrected with EQ shelf. I can see why some people might like slow or "NOS" without correction as they can just shave the air off their cans/speakers just a little bit without much thought into EQ. I couldn't tell the difference whatsoever between SD SHARP and regular SHARP, but NOS was fairly evident in the edge it took off. I run Slow with RME's suggested shelf EQ for USB standard 48khz.
 

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