[Roller]

Quote:

Regarding burn-in, read here
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break
 
 
Bottom line: "If they sound lousy out of the box, but they start sounding a lot better as you listen to them over time, it's your amazingly versatile brain figuring out how to cope with the world. The miracle is in your head ... not in the headphones"

...Regarding the Q701. That's what you forgot to add.

 

[Han Bao Quan]

Quote:

...Regarding the Q701. That's what you forgot to add.

Sure, but both are dynamic,  And since the AKGs are notorious for the "300 hours break-in", I think it's safe to apply the same logic of the article to the Denon.
 
I have both, they all sounded great right out of the box for me, and till now, still the same sound.

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Sure, but both are dynamic,  And since the AKGs are notorious for the "300 hours break-in", I think it's safe to apply the same logic of the article to the Denon.
 
I have both, they all sounded great right out of the box for me, and till now, still the same sound.

I understand what you mean, and I have indeed heard about K701/Q701 having a long burn-in period. But when thinking of something like the Ultrasone Pro 900 with expected 400 hours burn-in period, with them having a different (not night and day different, mind you) sound when new and when already having 100+ in them (from personal experience), I can say that they certainly don't sound the same. They actually displayed a rather odd behavior at a specific point in time, between 60 and 80 hours in, where the signature bass presence fluctuated quite a bit.
Also, it was interesting to read on that article about low frequency variations being less easy to read, which most likely would've affected the Pro 900s.
 
But then again, I believe that different headphones are built under different philosophies, so I won't comment on the D7000 specifically.
 
EDIT: A bit off topic, but how are you finding your HE-500 to perform?

 

[Magick Man]

Regarding burn-in, read here

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/measurement-and-audibility-headphone-break


Bottom line: "If they sound lousy out of the box, but they start sounding a lot better as you listen to them over time, it's your amazingly versatile brain figuring out how to cope with the world. The miracle is in your head ... not in the headphones"

Tyll went on to say that he believed that he did discover that there is "break-in" but that it's subtle. As I pointed out in the Sound Science thread:

Ka-ching! Here we can see a clear downward trend of IMD products over time. While the data is a bit noisy, all IMD products are reducing in level about 1.5dB each over the course of the test. I included IMD in the test because I thought that the type of differences I've heard over time might be due to this type of distortion.

Music is made of a multitude of frequencies. When the entire spectrum of music suffers from intermodulation distortion producing a sea of IMD products some 60dB down, I suspect it can be clearly audible. Reducing the level of this background crud 1 or 2 dB might certainly effect the subjective experience. I think it's extremely important to recognize that the perceptions of my measurement system in objective metrics may be on a completely different scale than that of the observer in the subjective experience.

How can you measure beauty?

The difference between a very good violin player and a truly great player is not objectively large. The devil is in the details; it's small subtleties that separate the two. So while the objectively measurable difference between the two players might be small, it may make the difference between an ecstatic and a merely pleasant listening experience to the human observer.

So, while headphones change little over time, their ability to deliver pleasure may improve markedly. Easily hearing the differences I've so often heard before 13 out of 15 times in a simple blind test proved to me this is a subtle, but important distinction.

Small changes can cause big reactions, enough to make one like or dislike a sound signature. The difference between the K701 and Q701 is small, according to measurements, but I can't stand the K701s and love the Qs.

I personally believe it's a little of both, physical changes in certain headphone models and our minds adjusting to the new sound signature. No reason not to accept that a little of both is going on, it isn't an "either/or" situation.

 

[Han Bao Quan]

 
Quote:

EDIT: A bit off topic, but how are you finding your HE-500 to perform?

By far my favorite headphones yet. They're darker than my other headphones, which are welcome. Tonal balance is excellent, mids are lush, highs are just wonderful. The bass is tight, though I prefer my Denon bass a bit more.  Together with the Lyr, they make a wonderful combo. 


Quote:

Tyll went on to say that he believed that he did discover that there is "break-in" but that it's subtle. As I pointed out in the Sound Science thread: Quote:

Ka-ching! Here we can see a clear downward trend of IMD products over time. While the data is a bit noisy, all IMD products are reducing in level about 1.5dB each over the course of the test. I included IMD in the test because I thought that the type of differences I've heard over time might be due to this type of distortion.

Quote:

Music is made of a multitude of frequencies. When the entire spectrum of music suffers from intermodulation distortion producing a sea of IMD products some 60dB down, I suspect it can be clearly audible. Reducing the level of this background crud 1 or 2 dB might certainly effect the subjective experience. I think it's extremely important to recognize that the perceptions of my measurement system in objective metrics may be on a completely different scale than that of the observer in the subjective experience.
How can you measure beauty?
The difference between a very good violin player and a truly great player is not objectively large. The devil is in the details; it's small subtleties that separate the two. So while the objectively measurable difference between the two players might be small, it may make the difference between an ecstatic and a merely pleasant listening experience to the human observer.
So, while headphones change little over time, their ability to deliver pleasure may improve markedly. Easily hearing the differences I've so often heard before 13 out of 15 times in a simple blind test proved to me this is a subtle, but important distinction.

Small changes can cause big reactions, enough to make one like or dislike a sound signature. The difference between the K701 and Q701 is small, according to measurements, but I can't stand the K701s and love the Qs.
I personally believe it's a little of both, physical changes in certain headphone models and our minds adjusting to the new sound signature. No reason not to accept that a little of both is going on, it isn't an "either/or" situation.

While yes, there are subtle differences, but "night and day" difference like many people claim is simply exaggerating. My point is not that there's nothing changes entirely, but if you don't like a pair of headphones within say, 10 hours of listening to them, chances are you won't like those headphones, even at 500 hours later. 

 

[satanigatan]

Obviously you are asking specifically about the D7000. But on the topic of "burn in", I used to not really believe in it. But IMO the LCD-2's really opened up after 20 hours of listening. They didn't even sound like the same headphone that I took out of the box. They went from being sort of closed, to a lot more open.
 
I'm not an expert on any of this. Call it mental or a physical change in the headphone, either way the sound changed for me.
 
 

 

[Bonobo Loco]

I've been planning to get the D7k to upgrade from my Sennheiser 380's... based on what the OP is saying, it might not be an upgrade?
 
But that contradicts what most people have to say about the Denon... so what gives? I have no way to test them here where I live. I've heard AKG's, Senns (obviously), Beyers, Grados, and a few other high end cans. Any kind of comparison would be nice to help me know whether or not to spend the money on this upgrade. Thanks in advance.

 

[Han Bao Quan]

You're going from the Senn 380 to the D7000 and you think it's not an upgrade?  Well I don't know what to tell you.
 
What high-end cans, specifically, have you listened to?
 
Quote:

I've been planning to get the D7k to upgrade from my Sennheiser 380's... based on what the OP is saying, it might not be an upgrade?
 
But that contradicts what most people have to say about the Denon... so what gives? I have no way to test them here where I live. I've heard AKG's, Senns (obviously), Beyers, Grados, and a few other high end cans. Any kind of comparison would be nice to help me know whether or not to spend the money on this upgrade. Thanks in advance.

 

 

[Bonobo Loco]

Quote:

You're going from the Senn 380 to the D7000 and you think it's not an upgrade?  Well I don't know what to tell you.
 
What high-end cans, specifically, have you listened to?
 


 

I think it IS an upgrade... and until the OP in this thread started talking trash, I never had any serious second thoughts. I just want to make sure I'm making a good purchase. I really like the Sennheiser sound signature, and the 380's are a good pair of collapsible, portable cans. I want the denon for home use and traveling. 
 
I guess the most "high end" stuff I've heard would be the Grado PS500, AKG Q701 and Beyerdynamic DT880/990
 
And before you ask: Classical, Indie rock, Acoustic, Electronica, with other genres mixed in here and there. Running flacs off laptop, external usb sound card, will be getting the Fiio E17 whenever they come back in stock.
 
Edit: By the way, nice collection you have there... if you could shine any light on a comparison between your D7k's and your other headphones around the same tier, that'd be sweet.

 

[Han Bao Quan]

I have not heard the PS500, was contemplating on buying it, but I got the RS1i instead, couldn't be happier.
 
To answer your question. The D7000 will be a solid choice for the genres you're listeing to, especially electronica and Acoustic. It's gonna be a long post if I compare my other headphones in details. So here's a short version for you
 
Vs HE-500: Overall the HE-500 has more balance and a bit more details. The D7000 wins in the bass department however, treble is just as smooth, but mids is not as full as the HE-500
vs W1000x: It's a split between the two, depends on my mood. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, just different.
VS RS1i: I prefer my Grado for rock, and rock only. Everything else goes to the Denon.
VS Q701: The AKG wins with soundstage, but that's it. Everything else is better on the Denon.
 
So it would be like: 
HE-500: 9.5
D7000 & W1000x: 9.25
Grado RS1i: 8.75
AKG Q701: 8.25
 
Quote:

I think it IS an upgrade... and until the OP in this thread started talking trash, I never had any serious second thoughts. I just want to make sure I'm making a good purchase. I really like the Sennheiser sound signature, and the 380's are a good pair of collapsible, portable cans. I want the denon for home use and traveling. 
 
I guess the most "high end" stuff I've heard would be the Grado PS500, AKG Q701 and Beyerdynamic DT880/990
 
And before you ask: Classical, Indie rock, Acoustic, Electronica, with other genres mixed in here and there. Running flacs off laptop, external usb sound card, will be getting the Fiio E17 whenever they come back in stock.
 
Edit: By the way, nice collection you have there... if you could shine any light on a comparison between your D7k's and your other headphones around the same tier, that'd be sweet.

 

 

[Taowolf51]

I quite like my demons, I recently wrote a review if you want a detailed read on my thoughts. Can't link to it as I'm on a tablet. Check out the front page, should be on there.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/599100/denon-d7000-review

(Link added by Jude.)

 

[MattTCG]

Long before I ever got into headfi, I bought a pair of very nice Shure IEM. Had never spent real money on audio. Plugged them in and listened for about 5 minutes tops. They sounded like $3 IEM's and I quickly checked the return policy for restocking fee. Somewhere I had read about burn in. So for giggles I put them on overnight-about 12 hours actually. Grabbed them the next morning and they magically sounded like $300 IEM's. 
 
There was no acclimation period or getting used to the sound. My 2c...

 

[obobskivich]

I think the biggest difference you're probably experiencing is going from a Grado to a closed headphone (*any* closed headphone) - Grados are very "tight" across their FR, and will not give you a "boom and bloom" presentation. The Denon, by contrast, walk that tight-rope line between boomy and lean (I personally think that as a result they do neither properly, but that's neither here nor there; they measure fairly well and they're not a bass boost nor bass cut can). I wouldn't at all be surprised if part of your issue here is that you're used to how the Grados sound, and you assume that to be the "correct" sound; also that you've spent nearly $1000 on a pair of cans and probably expect them to "sound expensive" relative to the Grados (Which I'll tell you right now, are an incredible value!). 
 
Regarding burn-in, I wouldn't worry *too* much about it; I look at it this way: at absolute most it's just going to mean that X sounds like a better version of X. X will not magically become Y. In other words, my K701s have and will always sound like K701s. That won't magically change. If they weren't to my liking, they would be replaced. There's no point spending a ton of money on snake oil or time on wishing - just get another pair of cans if you're unhappy; ESPECIALLY at the D7000's price point. 
 
I can also tell you that, if you're very used to/in-love with the open-back presentation, you will have a hard time finding a pair of closed cans that really "do it" - the Denon are probably among the closest. And if those aren't your cup of tea, well, there's not a whole lot else to option; many closed-back cans have boosted bass and/or sucked-out mids. That doesn't make them "bad" mind you - it's just a difference. 
 
And no, there's no good "closed Grado" suggestion - Grado has a fairly unique house sound, and you'll be hard-pressed to fully emulate it with another product. If that's what you like, you more or less live with the shortcomings associated with Grado products (like open-ness, on-ear fit, price, whatever). You might try another closed-back can, maybe there's some other signature you enjoy; the Beyerdynamic T70 would be an off-the-cuff suggestion, or perhaps one of the various studio monitor cans that are fairly dead (MDR-CD900ST, DT48, SRH-940, etc). 
 
 
 
 

 

[speecher]

 
1) what amp/dac would you suggest to help correct the Grado 225i  brash, bright and sibilant vocals?
2) what amp/dac would you suggest to help tighten up the thick, overwhemling bass hump of the D7000?
 
Both are used straight out of my Creative Zen Vision M (320 MP3 files).
 
I wish i could mate these 2 headphones for the perfect single can. Love the D7000 from mid up...and the Grado 225i from mids down.
 
 

 

[TMRaven]

An entire new headphone.