[ricmiclaw]

Quote:

I think you should sell your PS1000 (or should I say POS1000) before your wife comes home to find you hanging by their cable.
 
On another note I had a pair of cheap sony MDR-NC6 headphones, one driver was doa, they said send it in, I did and they said they didn't have that model anymore, but a week later what should arrive at my doorstep but a shiny new pair of NC6's 
 
I had sent in one pair of my SONY MDR-CD2000's to have the drivers replaced. after 8 years 5,000+ hours one of the drivers would rattle during curtain bass freqs. they said that they didnt have those drivers available anymore, and that they could ship them back or give me a "prorated refund" Refund? on 8 year old beat to crap headphones? I asked how much, $98!!! I only paid $150 for them new, and they gave me $98 for them 8 years old and beat to crap! AWESOME!!
 
On ANOTHER note, I really think you should end this grado craziness and just fall in love with your HD800's Look into the Eddie Current Super7 amp, I heard it at the Venice head-fi meet, it will blow you away. (fortunately I cut my teeth on sony, so I grew to love my phones bass light and a little bright (the CD2000's are), hmmm what does that remind me of, yep the HD800's, they fit me like a glove)

 
You've made some great points.  I'll try to address a couple of them.
 
First, hanging myself.  That won't happen.  My wife will not find me hanging.  She thinks I'm an idiot for not having returned the defective unit to ListenUp instead of relying on the Grado warranty.  Frankly, I think she's right.  That was very stupid on my part.  In my house, my wife's new four-letter word is a five-letter name that begins with "G".  If you have a choice between returning something or sending it in for warranty service, give it back.  Don't think twice.  I'm not distressed about this affair; disgusted would be a better word.  People kill themselves when they're distressed beyond reproach, not when they're merely disgusted.  If the meat is rancid, I throw it, not myself, away.  It's far more likely my wife will poison me for such stupidity as I displayed.  So, if you read of my death, there will be no mention of robe burns around my neck.  But I suspect my wife will find an appropriate place to put the PS1000 in my coffin where only she and my corpse will know.
 
Regarding falling in love with my HD800, I already am.  They're wonderful.  Not my absolute favorite but very much up there in the stratosphere of my best.  I still like my LCD2 best so far, but all my headphones have something going for them.  Different flavors, if you will.  Much depends on the music to which I'm listening.  I understand that Grado replaced both drivers (finally!) last week and they should be returning them to me very soon.  I really look forward to finally finding out (hopefully) what people who rave about Grado headphones are actually raving about.  I would be thrilled to be among the ravers.  I'll just never rave about their customer service and would recommend anyone give that issue serious consideration when making purchasing decisions.
 
As usual, the news about the replaced drivers didn't come from Grado and I don't expect notice or a tracking number, either.  They'll just appear on my doorstep, no signature required.  It's a good thing my UPS man appears to be honest.  As Grado won't reimburse me for shipping the unit back twice after two failed repairs (I'm assuming that, having refused me once, they'd refuse me again, if asked), they'd never do anything about a claim by me that I never received the package if the UPS man said he delivered it.  I'm sure 99.99999% of all carrier delivery people are honest and hard working.  But just imagine if you were the intended recipient of the PS1000 package and your delivery man was that 0.00001% who was at his home, enjoying your PS1000, but claiming he delivered it to you.  Or suppose you were out of town and the box sat on your stoop for two weeks until it sprouted legs and walked away.  These thoughts could make anyone cringe.
 
Finally, I'm really glad to hear about your Sony experiences.  My experience with Sony customer service was many years ago and involved a Vaio laptop.  I can't say good things about that experience and it's not relevant to this forum anyway.  However, they treated you really, really well and that's just great.  Kudos to Sony headphone customer service.  I do think that the part of customer service with which you deal really does matter, especially at these larger companies.  
 
 

 

[BattleBrat]

Hanging yourself? No, the headphones themselves will kill you!
I bought my HD800's from B&H when they arrived the Dumbass next door threw the box at me, I caught it safely and gave it a good cushioned stop, but I nearly kicked his @$$ some people care more about going out drinking skirt chasing and partying then high end audio..... f'ing neanderthals...

 

[ricmiclaw]

I had a driver go out on my 225s back in 09, I got them back fixed, free of charge in like I think a week and a half? Got them back in a new box too and I got new pads because I asked nicely
 
I'm not saying I don't believe your case, but it almost sounds like you're dealing with a completely different company than the rest of us. I hope you get your cans back in working order in a timely manner, I'd be pretty upset if my 1600 dollar cans weren't sorted out in any other way.

I'm not sure who you're referring to by "the rest of us".  Most of the posts in this thread seem to express experiences similar to mine, although mine might rank among the worst of the worst.  Yes, there are definitely people who have said their experiences with Grado were good.  But there seem to be many, many posts expressing negative experiences too.  
 
I'm also going to tell you about a PM I received a few days ago.  I won't reveal the sender's identity because of what the sender stated.  I won't reveal the sender's gender, either, so the grammar might get awkward.  The sender's experiences were "EXACTLY" (the word and all caps were the sender's, not mine) like my experiences, right down to three shipments trying to get warranty repairs.  Unlike me, the sender gave up with Grado and ultimately went to the dealer to make the repairs correctly.  The PM continued by stating that the sender still has the unit and won't post publicly in case the unit ever has to go back to Grado.  The sender was so concerned about the treatment received from Grado that the sender expected retributive consequences in the case of a public post.  I responded that no one should feel fearful of making public such poor conduct and I asked how much worse could the sender be treated by Grado if the sender's experiences were made public.  I haven't heard back from the sender and suspect that the sender was really affected by his treatment from Grado.  
 
Anyone can choose to believe that I'm just making this stuff up for whatever reason suits me if their own experiences were different and better.  I agree with you that for people who've had good experiences with Grado and then read these posts, cognitive dissonance occurs.  But, all I've done is post the facts.  Period.  Where I expressed an opinion, it concerned how I felt things should have been handled or expressed some self-deprecating thought.  I never made up a single fact.  I don't understand this either.  
 
Do whatever you want with the information.  Use it to protect yourself or throw it away; whatever works for you.  I'm just one of those guys who thinks that sunlight is the best anti-septic.

 

[lazysleepyboi]

Quote:

Hanging yourself? No, the headphones themselves will kill you!
I bought my HD800's from B&H when they arrived the Dumbass next door threw the box at me, I caught it safely and gave it a good cushioned stop, but I nearly kicked his @$$ some people care more about going out drinking skirt chasing and partying then high end audio..... f'ing neanderthals...

 
side note just because, hey battlebrat you live about 10 minutes from where i live, cool haha
 

 

[ricmiclaw]

Quote:

I think what you need to understand with companies like this, is that often when you talk to the people on the phone they don't know anything. If you send them again you need to be more forceful, keep asking for the manager, express your discontent and disgust.
 
I think maybe you are treating this wrong, on the phone, perhaps you are being too nice. I realize they messed this up, but you need to assert yourself on the phone, and if the person refuses to help you, keep going up the manager chain. Make sure to ask them for their names, it scares them and makes them more willing to help you.
 
Also I don't see this as the fault of grado at all, somethings wrong here, but this obviously does not happen a lot.

Very interesting thoughts, TakashiMiike.  A couple of people think I must be screaming, cursing and expressing other such juvenile behavior but you see it the opposite way.  You think maybe I'm being way too nice.  Truly fascinating how perspective changes things.  Please accept my thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts about how to get this resolved.  
 
If I understand the Grado management chain correctly, the only person higher than the one with whom I've been working is John Grado himself.  I fully expect the new drivers (both of them, I am told) to solve the problem.  If not, my next step would be to try contacting John Grado.  Based on the PM I mentioned in a previous post, like that sender, I wouldn't expect to ever hear a response from Mr. G but I'd give it a try.  I hope and think that step will be unnecessary.  Having said that, they failed to perform repairs correctly, the unit failed  practically new out of the box, and Grado refused to reimburse my re-shipping costs needed only because they didn't even do the repairs.  These things all represent poor customer service.  I see no point asking them about the third re-shipment costs for the repairs that lasted only a few hours and never sounded more than mediocre, given their refusal to reimburse the costs of the second re-shipment after not doing the repairs at all.  I can't say whether poor customer service happens often or not.  Those facts aren't in within the scope of my knowledge.  However, judging from the many posts by other dissatisfied people, I don''t think it's rare.  Maybe not common, but not rare, either. 
 
Regarding the actual exchanges with Grado, the only time I've ever spoken with Grado was to inform them of the initial failure and ask for instructions about how to send in the unit.  I never spoke with anyone at Grado again.  I have had numerous e-mail exchanges with the service manager there.  I've been careful to not mention his name in my posts but everyone who knows Grado knows to whom I'm referring.  Frankly, that man and I have never exchanged bad words.  He is (I think) the person who responded "too late" (see earlier posts), but I don't know for sure as many of the e-mails from Grado were signed only "Happy Listening".  That, in itself, is discourteous as you can't tell from the e-mail address who sent it.  In my e-mails most recently, I asked that the unit be replaced rather than continue with the "nonsense" of repair and return.  I have been told (not by Grado but by someone I know who was visiting them last Friday) that Grado has replaced both drivers.  That's not replacing the unit but it's close enough if it now works and there's nothing wrong with the head assembly after so much testing, working and reworking, etc.  I don't know what Grado did up to this point but I know the unit was not repaired the first time and the unit functioned only in a mediocre fashion for only a few hours after getting it back the second time.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "fault".  This has never been an issue of fault.  The issue is how should a company treat a customer who purchased their flagship (Grado's word, not mine) product from an authorized dealer, paid full retail, and the unit turned out to be defective?  I posted how they treated me; the actions they and I took with respect to each other and the unit.  This isn't a question of fault or blame.  
 
As I posted, I also had a failure with the LCD2 using the same amp but Audeze replaced that unit (no cost for shipping even though their warranty is like Grado's).  It turned out that Audeze was having driver failure problems at the same time and I have had no problems with the LCD2 replacement or any other headphone using that amp since (or before).  I also ran a test using an AKG K701 for 8 hours at much higher volume with the same source and amp as when the Grado failed (details in earlier posts).  I've had no problems with that or any other unit using the same amp, either.  I explained this to Grado and they finally decided to replace both drivers, as above.  
 
I hope this will be the end but I continue to believe that Grado should not have made me pay for the second and third shipments and they should have gotten the repairs performed correctly in the first instance.  My wife, who is less "understanding" about spending $1700 for a defective product, believes it shouldn't have failed after only a few hours use.  She views the product as having been defective ab initio and she has no patience for $1700 headphones that turn to garbage practically out of the box.  Upon reflection, I think that's right.  But Grado turned what I view as an ordinary manufacturing defect into a model of poor customer service.
 
For examples of what I consider to be outstanding customer service, see my posts about Audeze, HeadRoom, Head-Direct (with one tiny caveat - they didn't provide notice of shipment but apologized for the omission).  In my overall experience, Grado's conduct is aberrational (not for them, I suspect), but for companies in general.  The fact that some customers have had good experiences doesn't mitigate the terrible experiences others have posted about or the astonishing PM I received a few days ago.  

 

[ricmiclaw]

Quote:

Hanging yourself? No, the headphones themselves will kill you!
I bought my HD800's from B&H when they arrived the Dumbass next door threw the box at me, I caught it safely and gave it a good cushioned stop, but I nearly kicked his @$$ some people care more about going out drinking skirt chasing and partying then high end audio..... f'ing neanderthals...

Thanks for your concern but no worries.  The PS1000 will not kill me.  I don't know if they'll make me stronger in the Nietzschean sense, but they will not kill me.
 
Don't worry about the HD800.  They're built as strongly as the tanks Germany remains famous for building to the current day.
 

 

[ricmiclaw]

Quote:

One time I shipped a Bose Lifestyle 12 series II system clear across the country to an address in New York City, on Broadway no less, it disappeared, simply vanished, UPS paid up though. I still use UPS as my weapon of choice, UPS Ground fully insured signature confirmation is my minimum shipping requirement.
 
One would think a Grado rep would be hanging around and would read this.... Sennheiser has a guy and he takes care of business!
 

I have no illusions about Grado reps reading these posts . . .

 

[ricmiclaw]

Quote:

 
A smaller company would mean they take more care for each customer, as the company gets bigger it's inevitable these kind of mistakes will happen, lots more people own and service grado's than LCD-2's.
 
As an addition, Grado's quality control is kind of dubious. But I have no reason to believe they are an evil company, and most of the experiences, including my own, seem quiet positive, with Grado headphones and service.
 

Grado isn't evil.  And I don't think bad people work there.  For reasons dealing with how people behave institutionally, rather than personally, Grado's customer service seems prone to bad conduct.  
 
Actually, I take the small size of Audeze as a handicap of a different kind when dealing with the kind of problems they had recently with their drivers.  To a company like Audeze, if they failed to handle the driver issue correctly, the problem could have become existential.  Grado, on the other hand, is coasting on a reputation built over many decades.  They can survive those kinds of problems because they have a base of dedicated customers who don't care if Grado gets some things terribly wrong with some customers.  
 
Audeze hasn't had the chance to become similarly complacent.  What made the challenge so difficult for them was they have only a few people and they had to get the remediation done exactly right or it would probably have been the end of the company.  The fact that most new companies fail testifies to the difficulty companies typically have seeing and dealing effectively with existential threats.  The fact that Audeze handled themselves so well was exemplary and atypical.  
 

 

[ricmiclaw]

Quote:

 
It's not inevitable.  Bigger company also means they can afford to hire more (or a) customer service reps.  It's their policy and QC that's the problem. 
 
I'm not saying they are evil, but it is pretty absurd for such a small company not to offer a better experience.  IME QC problems aren't a big deal if the customer is taken care of.  People understand mistakes.  They don't understand having to pay for those mistakes themselves though. 
 
 

You got it.

 

[ricmiclaw]

 
Quote:

 
Yes, it does.  I'm very sorry to hear of your horrible experiences with their service.  It would seem - at some point, Grado would step in and finally see what they could do for you to keep you happy.  As it stands, it just appears that they're stuck in a cycle - Wash, Rinse, Repeat.  Unfortunately, this is doing nothing to resolve your issue.
 
Best of luck to you.
 
 

We'll see.  As stated in these posts, I'm told they have finally replaced both drivers.  That should take care of the unit but doesn't reimburse my expenses for unnecessary shipping nor does it show any understanding by Grado of what they did wrong.
 
P.S. - Now that I think about it, the fact that the information about replacing both drivers didn't even come from Grado shows that, without doubt, they really don't get it.

 

[ricmiclaw]

grado dun goofed, consequences will never be the same

What consequences? What do you mean?

 

[ricmiclaw]

Well, I was half right about my most recent receipt of the PS1000, which arrived back from Grado today. Where I was wrong was that this time, for the first time, they required a signature. That's a good improvement. Unfortunately, where I was right was they didn't, as usual, provide notice or a tracking number. It was pure luck that I was available to receive the package when UPS showed up.

I'm not going to use or test them until my new Woo Audio 5 arrives sometime next week. I don't think I'll have the power tubes needed to use it for a couple of weeks but the PS1000 is going to sit on a stand until I can try it with a completely different amp. Although my HeadRoom stack has been working fine with all my other headphones, I don't want to run any risks that someone (Grado) will say it's my amp if the unit fails again.

The best possible result will be that the PS1000 will just sound great and work beautifully for many years. Won't that be great?!

When I have more time later, I'm going to post about an experience I just had with Audio-Technica. As a teaser, I'll tell you that AT knows how to do customer service right. What I just experienced should serve as a textbook model of what the best customer service should be like. I just don't have the time to do it right now.

 

[Chris_Himself]

If you want to see real customer service, this is totally not head-fi related, but I collect flashlights and whenever one of them does something weird or breaks, I usually just buy a new one after the manufacturer tells me it's probably my fault.
 
I recently bought a Surefire 6P used, and the anti glare coating on the lens was coming off, I called the company to see how much a replacement costs, they told me 32 dollars shipped for a new head/bezel/lens, but he cuts off and just asks me for my address and email to get back to me, and today I got a brand new replacement head assembly in the mail! This is probably why I try to buy American these days.
 
Enjoy those PS1000's man, I've only had the pleasure of listening to the GS-1k and I honestly fell asleep within 15 minutes of sitting back in a chair and listening to some Joe Satriani from a Cambridge MagicDac/Amp.

 

[BattleBrat]

^Bose did that with me, I asked them how much for some speaker grilles for their dual cube speakers, they gave me a price, and then took down my address and shipped them free of charge!

 

[ricmiclaw]

If you want to see real customer service, this is totally not head-fi related, but I collect flashlights and whenever one of them does something weird or breaks, I usually just buy a new one after the manufacturer tells me it's probably my fault.
 
I recently bought a Surefire 6P used, and the anti glare coating on the lens was coming off, I called the company to see how much a replacement costs, they told me 32 dollars shipped for a new head/bezel/lens, but he cuts off and just asks me for my address and email to get back to me, and today I got a brand new replacement head assembly in the mail! This is probably why I try to buy American these days.
 
Enjoy those PS1000's man, I've only had the pleasure of listening to the GS-1k and I honestly fell asleep within 15 minutes of sitting back in a chair and listening to some Joe Satriani from a Cambridge MagicDac/Amp.

Your first point is really very funny and so true. I'm glad to hear that you got good service. I try to buy American, too. However, as my Grado experience shows, that strategy doesn't always work. I really hope to be able to report that the PS1000 is magical, but that needs to wait until I receive my new amp and the tubes, interconnects and power cords are all set up. There's no way I'm going anywhere near my existing amps with that unit in case it fails again. If that happens, it needs to happen on a completely different amp so there's no way to blame my equipment. Meanwhile, my equipment is working fine with all my other headphones and the Grado is resting peacefully on one of my headphone stands. Thank goodness for small favors.