[BananaOoyoo]

This is some disturbing stuff to hear.
And sad.
Is this a normal behaviour of CIEMs? I mean do they usually diverse from their universal demo in sound (in some cases to the extreme like this, when they turn out to be completely different things?)
I know the sound would change more ore less due to differences in contruction, but in what manner usually may I ask? (Like the sub-bass tends to be better, more prominent upper-mid, more upper-treble etc...)?

I think the issue with the N8 is that it was never intended to be a universal IEM (just as the Tia Trio/Fourte aren’t designed to be CIEMs). My experience with the Viento-R & Samba is that the custom version is better (better seal, designed with ear shape in mind, and, in the case of the Viento, the universal fit model just leaves a lot to be desired), but both of those are standard multi-BA IEMs.

I’ve been told that the universal N8 demos were made to approximate the ciem sound, but I guess they inadvertently made a better tuned IEM instead? (If it’s the lows that are problematic in the custom, I’m guessing it has to do with how the DD works with the different housing?)

 

[chungjun]

Oooffttt... I feel you and I do hope @64Audio will set things right for you. A little unsettling as I am also on a hunt for hybrid and I have N8t on my sight as well along with Solaris - which I hope to be able to demo before making a leap. I would want / hope the demo would be as close as possible to the final custom fit.

Alright, my 64 Audio N8 just arrived and I am extremely, extremely disappointed. Figured I should just post about it since I've already given 64 Audio the benefit of the doubt once.

DISCLAIMER: It has been less than 24 hours since I've received my custom, but my initial impressions are so bad that I doubt they will change too much over time. Plus, the measurements pretty much tell the whole story.

So originally, most of my impressions on the N8 was based on the universal demo unit back in Music Sanctuary. It was great, it was amazing, I had to have one and so I did. I wrote a few impressions (more notably in my hybrid IEM article) and just waited.

First time my customs came, they were fine. They weren't completely perfect; it was a little thicker and heavier (sound wise) compared to the demo unit but nothing too major. The subbass still had its exceptional reach and decay and the mids/treble was fine, except from channel imbalance in the 2-5k region. So okay, I can still kind of live with the channel imbalance, but hey I paid good cash for it. So I decided to have it sent back and fix up the channel imbalance.

And here we are. The second round. And boy, it's bad; well, bad relative to what I expected anyways. YES, the channel matching is now basically perfect. Unfortunately, now it sounds like a typical generic hybrid with one-note bass, which is definitely not what I paid for. I paid for the thing I heard back in MS, not... this. Now there's a midbass hump and the subbass is barely articulated even on my bass-specific test tracks. I don't even feel the desire to listen to this; the FiiO F9 gets me better bass for crying out loud.

I usually don't post graphs in this thread but I think it visualises exactly what is going on here.

Current unit


Current unit (red) vs demo unit (green)


Current unit (green) vs pre-RMA unit (red)
​

I'll definitely be sending this back again if 64 Audio accepts yet another RMA. But at this point, I can't even recommend anyone get an N8 due to all these inconsistencies. And hell, I'll have to wait another 2 months just to get my N8 fixed if it even gets properly fixed at all. If they can't, well, I'll just have to vote with my wallet and just eat the reshell + depreciation costs by selling it.

There will also be a "stealth" readjustment of the ranking based on what I'm hearing with this custom unit in the coming days. Only fair after all.

 

[FangJoker]

I've seen a lot of glowing reviews of the N8 so I'd try and get it sorted out again. I know it sucks to wait for a long time to get it sorted out.

 

[Kerouac]

Alright, my 64 Audio N8 just arrived and I am extremely, extremely disappointed. Figured I should just post about it since I've already given 64 Audio the benefit of the doubt once.

DISCLAIMER: It has been less than 24 hours since I've received my custom, but my initial impressions are so bad that I doubt they will change too much over time. Plus, the measurements pretty much tell the whole story.

So originally, most of my impressions on the N8 was based on the universal demo unit back in Music Sanctuary. It was great, it was amazing, I had to have one and so I did. I wrote a few impressions (more notably in my hybrid IEM article) and just waited.

First time my customs came, they were fine. They weren't completely perfect; it was a little thicker and heavier (sound wise) compared to the demo unit but nothing too major. The subbass still had its exceptional reach and decay and the mids/treble was fine, except from channel imbalance in the 2-5k region. So okay, I can still kind of live with the channel imbalance, but hey I paid good cash for it. So I decided to have it sent back and fix up the channel imbalance.

And here we are. The second round. And boy, it's bad; well, bad relative to what I expected anyways. YES, the channel matching is now basically perfect. Unfortunately, now it sounds like a typical generic hybrid with one-note bass, which is definitely not what I paid for. I paid for the thing I heard back in MS, not... this. Now there's a midbass hump and the subbass is barely articulated even on my bass-specific test tracks. I don't even feel the desire to listen to this; the FiiO F9 gets me better bass for crying out loud.

I usually don't post graphs in this thread but I think it visualises exactly what is going on here.

Current unit


Current unit (red) vs demo unit (green)


Current unit (green) vs pre-RMA unit (red)
​

I'll definitely be sending this back again if 64 Audio accepts yet another RMA. But at this point, I can't even recommend anyone get an N8 due to all these inconsistencies. And hell, I'll have to wait another 2 months just to get my N8 fixed if it even gets properly fixed at all. If they can't, well, I'll just have to vote with my wallet and just eat the reshell + depreciation costs by selling it.

There will also be a "stealth" readjustment of the ranking based on what I'm hearing with this custom unit in the coming days. Only fair after all.

Sorry to read this. Can't they make an exception for you and build you a universal one then?
Years ago (before I stepped into customs) I had a 1964 Ears (name of the company at that time) V6-Stage. This was also officially a 'custom only' model. But when asked explicitly they build me a universal version anyway.

As I was still looking for a DD or hybrid IEM with superb (subbass) rumble and a holographic soundstage to turn my current collection into (the well known fairy tale) 'End game', the N8 was on top of my list.
Now I think I would be probably better of with a 2nd hand CA Vega (certainly more interesting based on current 'used' prices) or maybe Solaris instead

 

[crinacle]

This is some disturbing stuff to hear.
And sad.
Is this a normal behaviour of CIEMs? I mean do they usually diverse from their universal demo in sound (in some cases to the extreme like this, when they turn out to be completely different things?)
I know the sound would change more ore less due to differences in contruction, but in what manner usually may I ask? (Like the sub-bass tends to be better, more prominent upper-mid, more upper-treble etc...)?

If the design is consistent, then the only differences you should hear is less but more linear treble (due to the acrylic tip + deeper insert) and possibly increased bass due to seal.

This isn’t normal, at least based off my experiences with mine and other people’s customs. But the fact that my N8 is channel matched tells me that the current bass response is intentional, which scares me.

Sorry to read this. Can't they make an exception for you and build you a universal one then?
Years ago (before I stepped into customs) I had a 1964 Ears (name of the company at that time) V6-Stage. This was also officially a 'custom only' model. But when asked explicitly they build me a universal version anyway.

As I was still looking for a DD or hybrid IEM with superb (subbass) rumble and a holographic soundstage to turn my current collection into (the well known fairy tale) 'End game', the N8 was on top of my list.
Now I think I would be probably better of with a 2nd hand CA Vega (certainly more interesting based on current 'used' prices) or maybe Solaris instead

I’ll explore my options. If 64 can assure that the next rebuild will be closer to the universal/first round custom then I don’t mind sending it off again. If not, I’ll request for a universal. I don’t want to think about the rest of the options failing those.

 

[FangJoker]

The A12t is my first choice to buy in a few weeks as I'm waiting for a possible Black Friday sale and hearing quality control issues is making me worried. Turnaround time might be a little less from me since I'm in the usa, but quality control problems is still quality control problems. I haven't really heard any complaints about 64 Audio before, but I might have to rethink my options like spending more for the VE8 or SE6 (if there's ever a review by a trusted reviewer). I may have to check your list again and other reviews of other TOTL CIEMs to find an alternate option.

I think it's interesting that there's talk of the N8 universal when I asked 64 Audio directly what shows it will be at or if there's any other way to listen to the N8 universal demo as I'm interested in that model as well as the A12t, and the person who emailed me back claimed that there isn't one and I said that multiple people on head fi listened to the N8 demo at RMAF and I know that there's some in asian stores and I never got a reply back after that. Maybe I shouldn't give them my money if they are run by liars.

 

[BananaOoyoo]

The A12t is my first choice to buy in a few weeks as I'm waiting for a possible Black Friday sale and hearing quality control issues is making me worried. Turnaround time might be a little less from me since I'm in the usa, but quality control problems is still quality control problems. I haven't really heard any complaints about 64 Audio before, but I might have to rethink my options like spending more for the VE8 or SE6 (if there's ever a review by a trusted reviewer). I may have to check your list again and other reviews of other TOTL CIEMs to find an alternate option.

I think it's interesting that there's talk of the N8 universal when I asked 64 Audio directly what shows it will be at or if there's any other way to listen to the N8 universal demo as I'm interested in that model as well as the A12t, and the person who emailed me back claimed that there isn't one and I said that multiple people on head fi listened to the N8 demo at RMAF and I know that there's some in asian stores and I never got a reply back after that. Maybe I shouldn't give them my money if they are run by liars.

Well I don’t think they’re being malicious with that answer - fwiw there isn’t a universal N8 for sale. I heard rumours from my local 64 audio distributor that they’re considering selling universal N8 IEMs in the (distant) future, but at the moment, their plan is to have it be a custom-only model. They do have universal N8 demo units, but it’s only that, a demo.

As for @crinacle’s situation re: sound differences, could we attribute the differences in sound to the drastically different housing material/environment of the uni vs. custom? Or is it for sure an issue with the tuning? Hope there’s a satisfactory solution at the end of this

 

[FangJoker]

Well I don’t think they’re being malicious with that answer - fwiw there isn’t a universal N8 for sale. I heard rumours from my local 64 audio distributor that they’re considering selling universal N8 IEMs in the (distant) future, but at the moment, their plan is to have it be a custom-only model. They do have universal N8 demo units, but it’s only that, a demo.

As for @crinacle’s situation re: sound differences, could we attribute the differences in sound to the drastically different housing material/environment of the uni vs. custom? Or is it for sure an issue with the tuning? Hope there’s a satisfactory solution at the end of this

How hard is it for the rep to tell me that they will have a N8 at RMAF or any other upcoming show/cam jam/etc? If I knew that they would demo it at a show in LA or here at CES (not sure if they even go to CES), then I'd consider making the drive out there as it was in the top 2 of my next IEM to purchase. Without listening to it, pushes it behind my first choice that I did get to hear as I rather choose a known quantity over something I haven't heard even if the reviews for the unheard item is better.

 

[plakat]

Very sorry @crinacle for your subpar experience. To me it was a bit of Th either way round, with the universal demo having more midbass and less clear treble (up to the point that it was not my top choice after my test), but the custom version sounds really good, with nice resolution and deep reaching bass that is definitely not one-note

 

[rantng]

Just got a chance to listen to the Empire Ears Bravado. As the entry level hybrid in the EE X-Series line with a W9 dynamic driver handling the lows & a single BA for the mids & highs, it didn't have the best soundstage & clarity, but the Nemesis with its dual W9 drivers, 1 mid, 2 high layout, might fit the bill. I found the single W9 in the Bravado extended well into the lows with clean sub-bass. Can't imagine what 2 W9 drivers could do.

~edit - just read the headfonics review of the Nemesis and they say it's not a basshead IEM, but if you like clean tight sub-bass it delivers

 

[Martina1964]

Alright, my 64 Audio N8 just arrived and I am extremely, extremely disappointed. Figured I should just post about it since I've already given 64 Audio the benefit of the doubt once.

DISCLAIMER: It has been less than 24 hours since I've received my custom, but my initial impressions are so bad that I doubt they will change too much over time. Plus, the measurements pretty much tell the whole story.

So originally, most of my impressions on the N8 was based on the universal demo unit back in Music Sanctuary. It was great, it was amazing, I had to have one and so I did. I wrote a few impressions (more notably in my hybrid IEM article) and just waited.

First time my customs came, they were fine. They weren't completely perfect; it was a little thicker and heavier (sound wise) compared to the demo unit but nothing too major. The subbass still had its exceptional reach and decay and the mids/treble was fine, except from channel imbalance in the 2-5k region. So okay, I can still kind of live with the channel imbalance, but hey I paid good cash for it. So I decided to have it sent back and fix up the channel imbalance.

And here we are. The second round. And boy, it's bad; well, bad relative to what I expected anyways. YES, the channel matching is now basically perfect. Unfortunately, now it sounds like a typical generic hybrid with one-note bass, which is definitely not what I paid for. I paid for the thing I heard back in MS, not... this. Now there's a midbass hump and the subbass is barely articulated even on my bass-specific test tracks. I don't even feel the desire to listen to this; the FiiO F9 gets me better bass for crying out loud.

I usually don't post graphs in this thread but I think it visualises exactly what is going on here.

Current unit


Current unit (red) vs demo unit (green)


Current unit (green) vs pre-RMA unit (red)
​

I'll definitely be sending this back again if 64 Audio accepts yet another RMA. But at this point, I can't even recommend anyone get an N8 due to all these inconsistencies. And hell, I'll have to wait another 2 months just to get my N8 fixed if it even gets properly fixed at all. If they can't, well, I'll just have to vote with my wallet and just eat the reshell + depreciation costs by selling it.

There will also be a "stealth" readjustment of the ranking based on what I'm hearing with this custom unit in the coming days. Only fair after all.

We are very sorry you are unhappy with your N8. Of course, we will be glad to accept another RMA. I will PM you with details. We will also send you a pre-paid mailing label, and put rush service on the repair.

 

[FastAndClean]

@crinacle bad guy bad audio reviews made a rant video for you, i dont understand why he is mad, i think you are doing a great job with your impressions and measurements

 

[robertjwarren]

We are very sorry you are unhappy with your N8. Of course, we will be glad to accept another RMA. I will PM you with details. We will also send you a pre-paid mailing label, and put rush service on the repair.

I find this very interesting. I remember getting response curves with stereo cartridges. But of course, we did not demo a cartridge and see its response curve, then order one and see its response curve and then compare to a previous cartridge..

 

[a3ther]

@crinacle bad guy bad audio reviews made a rant video for you, i dont understand why he is mad, i think you are doing a great job with your impressions and measurements

Kinda hilarious xD This guy talking about mental issues when he's the one insulting someone for 5 mins for using "bgvp fanboys" statement. Seriously, people like that should be sent for some treatment. I may laugh but someone may actually get hurt IRL.

Btw. Great job Crinacle, I hope your DM6 assesment, when eventually takes place, won't be influenced by association with this person, cause I'm afraid mine will in some way lol.

 

[FastAndClean]

Kinda hilarious xD This guy talking about mental issues when he's the one insulting someone for 5 mins for using "bgvp fanboys" statement. Seriously, people like that should be sent for some treatment. I may laugh but someone may actually get hurt IRL.

Btw. Great job Crinacle, I hope your DM6 assesment, when eventually takes place, won't be influenced by association with this person, cause I'm afraid mine will in some way lol.

it is obvious that he has mental issues you can detect it of the way he talks, it's kind of cringe