I'm assuming you're putting forth the minimum phase argument, in that time-domain effects shouldn't really exist in headphones as they will all be reflected in FR. Your logic is certainly sound and I'll back you up in a vacuum; however, in my experience that is not the case. Two IEMs, one BA and one DD, EQ'd to match each other, sounds different especially down in the bass. That can be attributed to third-order harmonic distortion, who knows. All I'm saying here is an IEM with, for example, BA woofers (and therefore very fast bass) sounds unnatural, reference point being a 2ch setup in a properly treated room. I can boost the IEM's bass up beyond what I perceive to be the bass level of the 2ch setup, but it still doesn't sound right. You can make the argument that this IEM is therefore more true to the source, but most recordings aren't really made with headphones in mind and so doesn't really make sense; the speaker setup should theoretically be the one closer to the source in this case.
I think (and again, not trying to put forth any thesis here) that there is something not being accounted for when playing a non-binaural recording through headphones, and somehow having a longer decay function fixes that issue. My final point being that I have listened to some fast headphones and IEMs and they have always sounded a little off to me in that there isn't enough linger that I'm hearing on actual 2ch setups. Personal preference? Perhaps. But again, I'm comparing to literal speakers here.
I've read a little about 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion but nothing much.
Apparently the way some high-end amps alters the 2nd and 3rd order distortion makes it sound better than some brutally honest amps like the Objective 2.
I've read a little about 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion but nothing much.
Apparently the way some high-end amps alters the 2nd and 3rd order distortion makes it sound better than some brutally honest amps like the Objective 2.
2nd, 3rd and higher harmonics are what, in part, differentiates the sound of different instruments whereas harmonic distortion in an amplifier refers to artifacts that are generated by the amplifier itself, such as signal clipping, poor design, etc. No amplifier designer deliberately attempts to filter out the natural harmonics that compromise the music itself.
@crinacle How would you characterize the 64 audio N8 decay? I'm deciding between that and the A12t. I have enjoyed hybrids in the past, but some had too much decay for me that sounded muddy. A12t is the safe choice for me, but I can't stop thinking about that sweet bass that only a DD can provide.
I've read a little about 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion but nothing much.
Apparently the way some high-end amps alters the 2nd and 3rd order distortion makes it sound better than some brutally honest amps like the Objective 2.
The "tube sound" that most people associate with is likely due to higher amounts of 2nd order distortion. There was also the whole debacle going on with why the bass on the HD800S sounds warmer than the HD800 and there were theories being thrown around with regards to the HD800S' higher 2nd order distortion in the bass that was measured in some rigs (but not others, specifically Jude's AP). There is something pleasant about even order harmonics since they are perfect octave intervals and so they "harmonise" with the fundamental being played over. The effect of 2nd order distortion is also diminished due to auditory masking (though it's more like tonal masking in this case) and so it takes quite a bit more D2 before you get any nasty effects.
On the other hand, odd order harmonics (3rd in this case) generally has this fuzzy or grainy effect. Due to it being further from the fundamental as compared to 2nd order, the auditory masking effect isn't as strong and so 3rd order is lot more destructive to the sound. The point I was making in my previous post is that since balanced armature drivers have consistently demonstrated not only higher THD than their dynamic counterparts but also a very dominant 3rd order distortion profile, the phenomena that I've experienced could be directly attributed to that as opposed to the "transients" placeholder term that I've used over the years.
The attack isn't as sharp as I'd want it to be but the decay is absolutely perfect for me. That's why I dropped cash on it, after all.
The "tube sound" that most people associate with is likely due to higher amounts of 2nd order distortion. There was also the whole debacle going on with why the bass on the HD800S sounds warmer than the HD800 and there were theories being thrown around with regards to the HD800S' higher 2nd order distortion in the bass that was measured in some rigs (but not others, specifically Jude's AP). There is something pleasant about even order harmonics since they are perfect octave intervals and so they "harmonise" with the fundamental being played over. The effect of 2nd order distortion is also diminished due to auditory masking (though it's more like tonal masking in this case) and so it takes quite a bit more D2 before you get any nasty effects.
On the other hand, odd order harmonics (3rd in this case) generally has this fuzzy or grainy effect. Due to it being further from the fundamental as compared to 2nd order, the auditory masking effect isn't as strong and so 3rd order is lot more destructive to the sound. The point I was making in my previous post is that since balanced armature drivers have consistently demonstrated not only higher THD than their dynamic counterparts but also a very dominant 3rd order distortion profile, the phenomena that I've experienced could be directly attributed to that as opposed to the "transients" placeholder term that I've used over the years.
More tuning/tonality than anything. You see that Westone's house sound is a downsloping signature with muted treble and so (as described in my post) the resulting sound has a very warm character and dark tonality. Personally it's too much, a lot of detail and definition gets glossed over. The grain on top of all that can be due to the distortion.
More tuning/tonality than anything. You see that Westone's house sound is a downsloping signature with muted treble and so (as described in my post) the resulting sound has a very warm character and dark tonality. Personally it's too much, a lot of detail and definition gets glossed over. The grain on top of all that can be due to the distortion.
The FR is spot on (especially for the rise in the bass) but the timbre is odd, yes. I wouldn't mind listening to it but I wouldn't pay anywhere close to MSRP for it.
The attack isn't as sharp as I'd want it to be but the decay is absolutely perfect for me. That's why I dropped cash on it, after all.
The "tube sound" that most people associate with is likely due to higher amounts of 2nd order distortion. There was also the whole debacle going on with why the bass on the HD800S sounds warmer than the HD800 and there were theories being thrown around with regards to the HD800S' higher 2nd order distortion in the bass that was measured in some rigs (but not others, specifically Jude's AP). There is something pleasant about even order harmonics since they are perfect octave intervals and so they "harmonise" with the fundamental being played over. The effect of 2nd order distortion is also diminished due to auditory masking (though it's more like tonal masking in this case) and so it takes quite a bit more D2 before you get any nasty effects.
On the other hand, odd order harmonics (3rd in this case) generally has this fuzzy or grainy effect. Due to it being further from the fundamental as compared to 2nd order, the auditory masking effect isn't as strong and so 3rd order is lot more destructive to the sound. The point I was making in my previous post is that since balanced armature drivers have consistently demonstrated not only higher THD than their dynamic counterparts but also a very dominant 3rd order distortion profile, the phenomena that I've experienced could be directly attributed to that as opposed to the "transients" placeholder term that I've used over the years.
That's the opposite of what I thought it would be. I expected the N8 to have great slam, but an ok decay. The LX has great slam, but decay is a bit too long for me. I'm not sure that this can be fixed with a cable, but I might consider getting one after trying a few other CIEMs first like the A12t and VE-8 and the sony z1r.
That's the opposite of what I thought it would be. I expected the N8 to have great slam, but an ok decay. The LX has great slam, but decay is a bit too long for me. I'm not sure that this can be fixed with a cable, but I might consider getting one after trying a few other CIEMs first like the A12t and VE-8 and the sony z1r.
I think the LX's attack and decay are fine; attack is similar to the N8 but of course I subjectively preferred the N8's decay. My main issue with the LX is more on the tuning of the bass in that they put in way too much midbass and it starts bleeding into the lower mids and centre midrange. Couple that with the typical DD decay and there's really no escaping the auditory masking effect when you emphasise the 100-300Hz region that much.
I think the LX's attack and decay are fine; attack is similar to the N8 but of course I subjectively preferred the N8's decay. My main issue with the LX is more on the tuning of the bass in that they put in way too much midbass and it starts bleeding into the lower mids and centre midrange. Couple that with the typical DD decay and there's really no escaping the auditory masking effect when you emphasise the 100-300Hz region that much.
Good to know. That's exactly what I dislike about some hybrids. I wonder how it would sound if they only had 1 DD instead of two. The trio got pretty close to what I like, but was a little too warm for me overall compared to the U12t with a good seal which I liked a lot overall, but it wasn't easy to get a good seal with them so that's why I want to go with the A12t.
Hiyaa if anyone is able to help me out, looking for a pair of iems that has good non-recessed mids, vocals clear and upfront, bass not as important but pref it to have presence (punchy), and lastly for it to be non sibilant.
Listen to mostly kpop, english pop, english alt rock, a little bit of screamo-kinda.
Will be using my lg v30 for it
Kinda like the tg334, EE phantom as well as EE Zeus XIV (I'm assuming they are vocal specialists) Wondering if there are more i haven't discovered
Hiyaa if anyone is able to help me out, looking for a pair of iems that has good non-recessed mids, vocals clear and upfront, bass not as important but pref it to have presence (punchy), and lastly for it to be non sibilant.
Listen to mostly kpop, english pop, english alt rock, a little bit of screamo-kinda.
Will be using my lg v30 for it
Kinda like the tg334, EE phantom as well as EE Zeus XIV (I'm assuming they are vocal specialists) Wondering if there are more i haven't discovered
Hiyaa if anyone is able to help me out, looking for a pair of iems that has good non-recessed mids, vocals clear and upfront, bass not as important but pref it to have presence (punchy), and lastly for it to be non sibilant.
Listen to mostly kpop, english pop, english alt rock, a little bit of screamo-kinda.
Will be using my lg v30 for it
Kinda like the tg334, EE phantom as well as EE Zeus XIV (I'm assuming they are vocal specialists) Wondering if there are more i haven't discovered
@crinacle Check out the Fiio FH5 whenever you get a chance. Definately worth hearing for those looking for iems in the lower budget bracket than something like the Andromeda.
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