Yeah, even with playing around with the different resistors. I found the standard 12au7 was behind the e80cc or 6sn7, but that a few of the greats were my overall favorites.
Crack;Bottlehead OTL
- Thread starter ironbut
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skhan007
1000+ Head-Fier
OK, reporting back on my first week with 6sn7 tube(s) in the preamp section. I've gone between the chrome top Sylvania and the Raytheon. They sound pretty much the same to me and both are great. I can likely conclude that I like the 6sn7 as much (or maybe even more) than the RCA clear top 12au7, which was fantastic to begin with.
I do note that the adapter and 6sn7 creates a very, very, low level hum when no music is playing. It does not get louder or quieter when you roll the volume up down on the BHC or source (RME ADI2 DAC). It's inaudible when the music is playing. Just noting that it's NOT a black background.
When the music is paused and the slight hum is there, and I roll up the BHC volume to about 3/4 (I would never listen to music at this volume) there's a range on the volume knob where there's more hum on the right side of the headphones, but then it disappears when the volume knob gets to max. None of this happens with 12au7 tubes. Weird.
I do note that the adapter and 6sn7 creates a very, very, low level hum when no music is playing. It does not get louder or quieter when you roll the volume up down on the BHC or source (RME ADI2 DAC). It's inaudible when the music is playing. Just noting that it's NOT a black background.
When the music is paused and the slight hum is there, and I roll up the BHC volume to about 3/4 (I would never listen to music at this volume) there's a range on the volume knob where there's more hum on the right side of the headphones, but then it disappears when the volume knob gets to max. None of this happens with 12au7 tubes. Weird.
GreenNeedle
100+ Head-Fier
I have that low level hum when using either the ebay adaptor above or the Garage one and with any of the 4 6SN7 I have. When you say it is inaudible when music is playing it will probably still be there somewhere, just the music puts it way down in the backround. It annoyed me though and I liked the cheap Mazda 12AU7s so I haven't used a 6SN7 for a long time.
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skhan007
1000+ Head-Fier
Yeah, agreed- The low-level hum is simply overshadowed when the music starts. It's definitely still in the background. A bit frustrating, but oh well.
Curious if any BHC owners feel their amp, after personalization, tweaks, tube upgrades, etc. is endgame for them? I know many guys have stated this amp, when tweaked, punches above it's weight class. I'm genuinely interested if guys here find this amp to be their main headphone amp?
I've got my eye on a very nice TOTL headphone amp and it's super pricey (to me anyway) at $3700. It makes me wonder if I should just stop and be happy with what I have.
jonathan c
Headphoneus Supremus
I know which h/p/a that is…
. One important difference between it and the BHC is that its output impedance is 2.0 ohms vs an estimated 100 ohms for the BHC. A 300-ohm headphone such as ZMF Auteur will sound different - for that reason (besides others) - with that TOTL h/p/a vs with the BHC.
skhan007
1000+ Head-Fier
Thanks for the feedback, as always. I do really want that "other" TOTL headphone amp, but it's just so pricey. Used ones are super hard to come by. I may just have to bite the bullet and pay the top-dollar pricing. I'm just having a psychological tug-of-war about spending this kind of money. I'm also thinking about TOTL solid state and keeping the BHC for when the need for tube tone strikes.I know which h/p/a that is…
jonathan c
Headphoneus Supremus
If you get the “other” TOTL h/p/a, you can make the sound as ‘tubey’ or as close to SS as you like with tube choices. Very generally speaking, RCAs and Siemens at each end of the spectrum - for example
. Plus that “other” TOTL h/p/a will deftly handle low impedance headphones (except Abyss + Susvara).
Deceneu808
500+ Head-Fier
If you get the “other” TOTL h/p/a, you can make the sound as ‘tubey’ or as close to SS as you like with tube choices. Very generally speaking, RCAs and Siemens at each end of the spectrum - for example
I don't know if its end game but its damn good. I know you and I PM'd each other about this subject in the past and since then I have added a Bottlehead Mainline. The Mainline is definitely a step up over the BHC with SB but its not night and day. Its a matter of degrees.
For the money the BHC with SB offers outstanding performance. In my opinion if you want to make major changes in sound you will get more by changing headphones.
The crack will always have a special place in my heart. It was my first tube amp, and my first build. It is a great, great sounding amp, especially with tweaks and upgrades. For me, though, it's not end game. Both the mainline and C2A are better for my listening, and the bigger ben I am currently using is (imho of course!) a fairly big step up over the mainline. There always seem to be a step up somewhere, I wish I could have remain satisfied.
I hear you! Me too! There's always that curiosity about other stuff and upgraditis is a very real thing in our hobby. Truth be told though I could live with the BHC with SB for high impedance phones.
The main reason I decided to get something over the BHC was I was looking for a tube amp that could possibly drive the lower impedance phones I have also. I was surprised to hear the Mainline actually drives the Sundara and Aeon Flow Open X decently at moderate levels. It will not drive the AFO X at louder levels however. Luckily I'm very much into high impedance phones at this time and I'm very satisfied with how the BHC, Mainline, and WA6 drives those. That's not to say that wont change in the future however. We all know how this hobby goes! Lol!
Tom-s
100+ Head-Fier
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@skhan007 I’m experienced with Crack, C2A, S3X (normal and with E55L) and Mainline(6c45 and ec8020). Headphones used are mostly AKG K340, HD800 and ZMF Verite Open.
Sometimes also AKG K1000 or K340/240 with Stereomour II (2A3 or 45). And various DIY self build amps.
My most used amplifier remains the Crack by a long margin. I just keep going back to it. I like all others but am mostly a Crack addict. Have tried many implementations of Crack. The perfection of Crack is the DC coupled driver. I feel this simplicity makes it perfect.
I don’t own any “end-game” amps in the typical sense of the word. An “end-game” amp with some thousands of euros in components can be mediocre due to implementation in the same way that a very simple thought out circuit can be a perfect base to build a stellar amp.
Sometimes also AKG K1000 or K340/240 with Stereomour II (2A3 or 45). And various DIY self build amps.
My most used amplifier remains the Crack by a long margin. I just keep going back to it. I like all others but am mostly a Crack addict. Have tried many implementations of Crack. The perfection of Crack is the DC coupled driver. I feel this simplicity makes it perfect.
I don’t own any “end-game” amps in the typical sense of the word. An “end-game” amp with some thousands of euros in components can be mediocre due to implementation in the same way that a very simple thought out circuit can be a perfect base to build a stellar amp.
skhan007
1000+ Head-Fier
Very much appreciate your input, Gentlemen. It's a very strange mental tug-of-war that I'm experiencing! I have my BHC Speedball (pictured below) with great tubes. I've bought a stash of 5998 tubes, which I like a tad better than my 6080 and 6as7g tubes. This past month, I tried the 6sn7 preamp tubes with the adapter and really like them, as well (minus the slight hum). The 6sn7 might be a slight improvement over my RCA clear top 12au7.
Long story short- There is a local amp builder (Linear Tube Audio) and I've visited the shop several times and absolutely love their flagship tube amp, the MZ3. It's just so amazing. It leans a bit away from the typical "tube sound" and is super sharp, defined, crisp, but has that nice tube low end extension. All that being said, it's VERY expensive (for me, anyway). Now, when I listen to my BHC, I just imagine that my listening experience would be better with this other amp, but I also think about how good my BHC sounds at 1/6 the price!!
Your Crack is really beautiful! (That didn't sound right! Lol!). That's the thing I always come back to, sure there are a lot of better tube headphone amps out there but at a significantly higher price. Is the difference in price worth it? Ultimately that's up to each user to decide.Very much appreciate your input, Gentlemen. It's a very strange mental tug-of-war that I'm experiencing! I have my BHC Speedball (pictured below) with great tubes. I've bought a stash of 5998 tubes, which I like a tad better than my 6080 and 6as7g tubes. This past month, I tried the 6sn7 preamp tubes with the adapter and really like them, as well (minus the slight hum). The 6sn7 might be a slight improvement over my RCA clear top 12au7.
Long story short- There is a local amp builder (Linear Tube Audio) and I've visited the shop several times and absolutely love their flagship tube amp, the MZ3. It's just so amazing. It leans a bit away from the typical "tube sound" and is super sharp, defined, crisp, but has that nice tube low end extension. All that being said, it's VERY expensive (for me, anyway). Now, when I listen to my BHC, I just imagine that my listening experience would be better with this other amp, but I also think about how good my BHC sounds at 1/6 the price!!
Sometimes having equipment with better technicalities doesn't always equal more enjoyment. In the end the thing that stands out to me about the Crack is how much I enjoy listening to it. For its price its an exceptional bargain. I have no doubt there are other tube amps out there that I would probably enjoy more but for a large increase in price. Sometimes its good to kick back and just enjoy what we have.
I sold my BHC and kept the Feliks Audio Echo Mk2. Also just traded my Jot 2 for a Rebel Amp. The BHC was pretty good but I think I like the Echo Mk2 better overall.
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