[Loquah]

The bass on the Crack is exceptionally well controlled, particularly if you install the constant current source upgrade (Speedball) and roll a nice tube (Tung Sol 7236 is my favourite, but hard to find).

In my experience, the Crack has bass that is tight, extended and just right in quantity (prominent when called for by source material).

 
+1 regarding the Speedball and with the right tube choice.
 
I had a chance to hear a Darkvoice recently and was definitely impressed, but wouldn't say it's definitively better than a Crack and you don't get the fun of building it and modifying it yourself.

 

[atraf]

Thank you everyone for your responses.
 
I don't know if a very controlled bass is what I need, I just want the HD650 to shake on my ears without it blending with everything else too much, got that effect when I heard them with the SS Naim DAC-V1, was amazing but extremely pricy!
 
I hope I won't get lost with DIY, very little exprience
just to know what i am getting my self into, is the crack considered a quiet amp ? no hum's or buzz in the background i am very sensitive to that stuff and i read that OTL amps are sensitive to that issue.
 
Currently my budget is a bit tight, I have 600$ for DAC + AMP, so after buying the AMP i think i should leave the rest for a proper DAC so the SB upgrade will have to wait.
Which leads my to my next question  - which DAC under 300$ should I buy?
What do you say on the AQ dragonfly v1.2/ HRT MicroStreamer combo with the CRACK, Since I have tight budget i thought buying something portable might be a nice bonus especially if it can drive a bit the HD650. 
My future goal is the Bifrost but its 2 much right now

 

[Loquah]

  Thank you everyone for your responses.
 
I don't know if a very controlled bass is what I need, I just want the HD650 to shake on my ears without it blending with everything else too much, got that effect when I heard them with the SS Naim DAC-V1, was amazing but extremely pricy!
 
I hope I won't get lost with DIY, very little exprience
just to know what i am getting my self into, is the crack considered a quiet amp ? no hum's or buzz in the background i am very sensitive to that stuff and i read that OTL amps are sensitive to that issue.
 
Currently my budget is a bit tight, I have 600$ for DAC + AMP, so after buying the AMP i think i should leave the rest for a proper DAC so the SB upgrade will have to wait.
Which leads my to my next question  - which DAC under 300$ should I buy?
What do you say on the AQ dragonfly v1.2/ HRT MicroStreamer combo with the CRACK, Since I have tight budget i thought buying something portable might be a nice bonus especially if it can drive a bit the HD650. 
My future goal is the Bifrost but its 2 much right now

 
I've heard very good things about the Dragonfly v1.2 and having owned the previous version would say it's a probably good option.
 
More importantly though, if you go for the Crack I'd highly recommend you get the Speedball straight away based on your requirements. The biggest impact of the Speedball is tighter, cleaner, punchier bass.
 
As for the noise issue, the Crack is slightly more susceptible to induced noise than some other amps, but is nowhere near as bad as some of the similarly priced, but pre-built amps I have heard. You'd be fine with the Crack so long as you use some decent, shielded interconnects (some interconnects are 2-core, but not shielded) and so long as your environment isn't heavily polluted with EMF. I did fine even with wireless, a crappy laptop power supply and multiple other devices plugged in all around the Crack.

 

[grrraymond]

I'd say that the stock Crack has 'more' bass (with, say, a 6080 and ECC82) than with the Speedball but that once upgraded you get a better resolved bass sound, which ends up having more impact and allows all the low-mid details to come through, which are one of the key strengths of the 650s in my book.

 

[Sonido]

If you want bass slam get a Quickie with PJCCS as well.

 

[MattTCG]

If you want bass slam get a Quickie with PJCCS as well.

 
I think that this is one of those experiences that you need to have for yourself to believe it. I know that I was skeptical until I heard it at the meet. 
 
I think that most people would be shocked at the bass slam the 650 is actually capable of. 

 

[JamieMcC]

I will add the choke mod and a film cap in place of the last electrolytic cap in the power supply delivered a healthy improvement in deep bass with the T1's enough to let you feel some proper impact at times.

 

[ffivaz]

Thank you everyone for your responses.

I don't know if a very controlled bass is what I need, I just want the HD650 to shake on my ears without it blending with everything else too much, got that effect when I heard them with the SS Naim DAC-V1, was amazing but extremely pricy!

I hope I won't get lost with DIY, very little exprience
just to know what i am getting my self into, is the crack considered a quiet amp ? no hum's or buzz in the background i am very sensitive to that stuff and i read that OTL amps are sensitive to that issue.

Currently my budget is a bit tight, I have 600$ for DAC + AMP, so after buying the AMP i think i should leave the rest for a proper DAC so the SB upgrade will have to wait.
Which leads my to my next question  - which DAC under 300$ should I buy?
What do you say on the AQ dragonfly v1.2/ HRT MicroStreamer combo with the CRACK, Since I have tight budget i thought buying something portable might be a nice bonus especially if it can drive a bit the HD650. 
My future goal is the Bifrost but its 2 much right now

ODAC... And spend the rest on a speedball!

 

[Loquah]

ODAC... And spend the rest on a speedball!

 
Good suggestion!

 

[atraf]

I have heard the ODAC is very analytical and not warm at all, sounds like something I won't like, some even say its not adequate for headphones but more for speakers.. 
correct me if I am wrong of course, the ODAC price is very tempting.
Do you have experience with the ODAC and CRACK? the AQ 1.2 is also around the same price isn't it better? 
 
 
So you guys really think the speed ball is a must when talking about electronic music and deep bass? and you also say I need different tubes, in total it can sums up to almost 500$.. I really thought I could just buy the stock crack with stock tubes and enjoy it even bass wise. 
In the future the speed ball is definitely in mind and also tube rolling but for now I want to get the most out of the budget, with the purchasing the best upgradeable dac and amp in my price range.

 

[JamieMcC]

  I have heard the ODAC is very analytical and not warm at all, sounds like something I won't like, some even say its not adequate for headphones but more for speakers.. 
correct me if I am wrong of course, the ODAC price is very tempting.
Do you have experience with the ODAC and CRACK? the AQ 1.2 is also around the same price isn't it better? 
 
 
So you guys really think the speed ball is a must when talking about electronic music and deep bass? and you also say I need different tubes, in total it can sums up to almost 500$.. I really thought I could just buy the stock crack with stock tubes and enjoy it even bass wise. 
In the future the speed ball is definitely in mind and also tube rolling but for now I want to get the most out of the budget, with the purchasing the best upgradeable dac and amp in my price range.

 
Your budget is not that far away from something like a network player, nearly all now have a stand alone dac section that can be used with other inputs and a few some have built in headphone amps so you get you a nice dac with built in amp plus streaming features Dennon & Marantz normally both have Airplay streaming which is handy if use any idevices. I know its not a separate amp and dac however they are reasonably common in the hifi stores so a demo should be easy enough hearing something rather than buying blind would be a good way to go. With a limited budget it could be worth considering something like a used or even new Marantz NA7004 should be within budget.

 

[Loquah]

  I have heard the ODAC is very analytical and not warm at all, sounds like something I won't like, some even say its not adequate for headphones but more for speakers.. 
correct me if I am wrong of course, the ODAC price is very tempting.
Do you have experience with the ODAC and CRACK? the AQ 1.2 is also around the same price isn't it better? 
 
 
So you guys really think the speed ball is a must when talking about electronic music and deep bass? and you also say I need different tubes, in total it can sums up to almost 500$.. I really thought I could just buy the stock crack with stock tubes and enjoy it even bass wise. 
In the future the speed ball is definitely in mind and also tube rolling but for now I want to get the most out of the budget, with the purchasing the best upgradeable dac and amp in my price range.

 
Yeah, I think Dragonfly will be equally good and perhaps not quite as clinical sounding (although I haven't heard the new Dragonfly).
 
You can absolutely start with the Crack in stock form and thoroughly enjoy it - it's actually recommended in a lot of cases so you can get to know the stock sound before upgrading. I recommended the SB add-on because of your comments about tight punchy bass (IIRC), but the Crack is never bass shy, it just gets a little tighter with the SB.

 

[atraf]

   
Your budget is not that far away from something like a network player, nearly all now have a stand alone dac section that can be used with other inputs and a few some have built in headphone amps so you get you a nice dac with built in amp plus streaming features Dennon & Marantz normally both have Airplay streaming which is handy if use any idevices. I know its not a separate amp and dac however they are reasonably common in the hifi stores so a demo should be easy enough hearing something rather than buying blind would be a good way to go. With a limited budget it could be worth considering something like a used or even new Marantz NA7004 should be within budget.

A network player will be a bit 2 much for me.. I won't be using any of its capabilities since i only listen to music threw my laptop in my room and i already have pioneer receiver (vsx 521) for my 5.1 surround system in my room, if i could somehow connect them together and also gain an improvement in the speakers area or  maybe even somehow turning my set to 7.1 could be nice but still all this wifi capabilities and the main reason for having a network player won't be used by me.
 

Do any of you know if I can use my receiver (vsx521) as a dac with the crack? what do i need to check for?
I am asking because of the possibility of might saving the money on dac, maybe the receiver has a proper dac inside? 
this is my receiver http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/archive/VSX-521/page.html, maybe using the Pre-amp Output of the Surround Back speakers?
i think the receiver won't send stereo audio to that output.. so maybe no :\ 
 
And of course thank you guys for everything.. I really like this headfi community and I am happy I finally bought the HD650 to be a part of it  

 

[Loquah]

I'm not sure of the quality of the DAC, but you can absolutely use your receiver. I'd recommend using the BDR/DVR outputs. They should be fixed stereo feeds.

 

[grrraymond]

Again, just to clarify, the stock Crack is quite a bit warmer and bassier than the SB & common tube upgrade route. I absolutely loved the stock Crack sound, it's so fluid and has that ecstatic tube sound. When you want a bit more precision and focus, across the whole spectrum, get the SB.