[Shazb0t]

I have a question for you guys much more knowledgeable in these electrical matters.  Is there anything behind some of the cable providers making cables with significantly more conductor material?  Like say when a cable maker offers their normal 4 strand whatever awg cable vs the same awg in 8 strands?  I would image this geometry change changes some electrical property.  I don't believe the change correlates to any sound or FR change, but I was curious what the concept behind it is supposed to be?

 

[jodgey4]

It will cut the resistance in half, reactance still depends mostly on geometry. So it basically cuts the cable impedance in half. And it can look awesome.

 

[StanD]

  I have a question for you guys much more knowledgeable in these electrical matters.  Is there anything behind some of the cable providers making cables with significantly more conductor material?  Like say when a cable maker offers their normal 4 strand whatever awg cable vs the same awg in 8 strands?  I would image this geometry change changes some electrical property.  I don't believe the change correlates to any sound or FR change, but I was curious what the concept behind it is supposed to be?

It all depends on the actual resistance of the specific cable. Once it is low enough, which is easy to achieve, getting it even lower has no advantage, except to the selling chain.
I would focus on aesthetics, durability and ergonomics, should those should be issues with your stock cable or the one in use. If what you have works for you, why bother?

 

[Dobrescu George]

okay, so the material does not influence, but different cables to sound the same... is this not what matters?

 

[Shazb0t]

It will cut the resistance in half, reactance still depends mostly on geometry. So it basically cuts the cable impedance in half. And it can look awesome.

 
 

  It all depends on the actual resistance of the specific cable. Once it is low enough, which is easy to achieve, getting it even lower has no advantage, except to the selling chain.
I would focus on aesthetics, durability and ergonomics, should those should be issues with your stock cable or the one in use. If what you have works for you, why bother?

 
Makes sense, thanks for the quick answers guys.  I'm a Mechanical Engineer and electricity has always been black magic to me.

 

[StanD]

   
 
 
Makes sense, thanks for the quick answers guys.  I'm a Mechanical Engineer and electricity has always been black magic to me.

That's OK, Young's modulus used to be black magic to me, until I started using strain gauges and had to learn about it.

 

[Steve Eddy]

I have a question for you guys much more knowledgeable in these electrical matters.  Is there anything behind some of the cable providers making cables with significantly more conductor material?  Like say when a cable maker offers their normal 4 strand whatever awg cable vs the same awg in 8 strands?  I would image this geometry change changes some electrical property.  I don't believe the change correlates to any sound or FR change, but I was curious what the concept behind it is supposed to be?

All else being equal, the resistance will go down and the capacitance will go up. Into higher impedance loads, the cable's capacitance will contribute more to high frequency roll off (into lower impedances inductance will contribute more).

The only concept behind it that I can see is that 8 is a larger number than 4.

se

 

[StanD]

All else being equal, the resistance will go down and the capacitance will go up. Into higher impedance loads, the cable's capacitance will contribute more to high frequency roll off (into lower impedances inductance will contribute more).

The only concept behind it that I can see is that 8 is a larger number than 4.

se

Actually I don't think the cable capacitance works with the higher impedance load of a headphone but instead presents a load on the amplifier. In that case it shouldn't be a problem in the world of audio and an amp with a low output impedance. If the capacitance gets high enough it might create a stability problem for some amps, depending on their design, I doubt that anyone is going to use a headphone cable long enough to amass that much capacitance.
Luckily we're not dealing with transmission lines and microwaves as some audiophiles would like to me us believe. I hope I'm not giving anyone weird ideas with my jest.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Actually I don't think the cable capacitance works with the higher impedance load of a headphone but instead presents a load on the amplifier. In that case it shouldn't be a problem in the world of audio and an amp with a low output impedance. If the capacitance gets high enough it might create a stability problem for some amps, depending on their design, I doubt that anyone is going to use a headphone cable long enough to amass that much capacitance.
Luckily we're not dealing with transmission lines and microwaves as some audiophiles would like to me us believe. I hope I'm not giving anyone weird ideas with my jest.

I'm considering source impedance as well. Not everything has a zero ohm (or close to it) output impedance. Remember, the output impedance forms a voltage divider with the load impedance and the cable capacitance which are in parallel. Some people use speaker amplifiers to drive their headphones and sometimes add a series resistor to pad down the amplifier's output. And receivers typically drive their headphone outputs from the speaker outputs through internal resistors that serve the same purpose. And these resistors can be hundreds of ohms. So the higher the load impedance, the more cable capacitance will play a role in high frequency cutoff. It may not be problematic except in extreme cases, but I just don't see why one would want to intentionally increase the cable's capacitance for no apparent reason other that what I said previously, that 8 is a larger number than 4. It's sort of like Spinal Tap and the amps that go to "11."

se

 

[jcx]

actually the desire for thin, flexy headphone cables gives even some manufacturer supplied headphone cable rather largish C by some expectations - up to 1000pF is seen
 
this can be enough to destabilize some op amps without some isolating series Z
 
even emitter followers can oscillate with Cload depending on circuit design - which may even be found in "no feedback" marketed amplifiers
 
the highest output R I have seen is a few kOhm in a CD player with muting circuit
 
<,~=100 Ohms is much more common in line outputs, obviously low Z headphones want lower output Z amps than that

 

[Shazb0t]

I'm considering source impedance as well. Not everything has a zero ohm (or close to it) output impedance. Remember, the output impedance forms a voltage divider with the load impedance and the cable capacitance which are in parallel. Some people use speaker amplifiers to drive their headphones and sometimes add a series resistor to pad down the amplifier's output. And receivers typically drive their headphone outputs from the speaker outputs through internal resistors that serve the same purpose. And these resistors can be hundreds of ohms. So the higher the load impedance, the more cable capacitance will play a role in high frequency cutoff. It may not be problematic except in extreme cases, but I just don't see why one would want to intentionally increase the cable's capacitance for no apparent reason other that what I said previously, that 8 is a larger number than 4. It's sort of like Spinal Tap and the amps that go to "11."

se

 
I will be using the 5' BTG audio 8 stand cable with an emotiva mini-x speaker amp to drive my HE-6.  Currently I am using the stock HE-6 cable and a 1' 8 strand XLR to banana plug adapter cable by BTG.  I picked up a 5' 8 strand BTG headphone cable for a good price to match my 1' adapter cable.  I was just curious if there was a reason for the 8 strand or if that would effect anything in my application.  I am guessing from your responses that nothing should change, even with the higher capacitance in the cable.

 

[Steve Eddy]

I will be using the 5' BTG audio 8 stand cable with an emotiva mini-x speaker amp to drive my HE-6.  Currently I am using the stock HE-6 cable and a 1' 8 strand XLR to banana plug adapter cable by BTG.  I picked up a 5' 8 strand BTG headphone cable for a good price to match my 1' adapter cable.  I was just curious if there was a reason for the 8 strand or if that would effect anything in my application.  I am guessing from your responses that nothing should change, even with the higher capacitance in the cable.

Nah, you'll be fine. Just saying that from an engineering perspective, there's nothing to be gained in going to more than four.

se

 

[castleofargh]

highres cables should have 32 or 64 threads!

 

[StanD]

highres cables should have 32 or 64 threads!

If that's the case, the sheets on my bed are super-ultra-hires-HD because 64 would be a bit coarse.
Anything over 400 is not beneficial.

 

[jcx]

silliness aside -  twisted pairs are often good, star quad can be a bit better and coax is generally the best for 2 wire single ended interconnect
 
for single ended RCA coax there is valid reason to use lots of copper in the shield - chassis leakage currents will create a V if they flow in the shield/ground return - the only way to reduce this is to make the resistance lower
 
some microphone cable uses pair or quad inside a overall shield/ground return - but I wouldn't recommend substituting it where the equipment was designed for RCA coax
 
 
with balanced signal isolated overall shield helps with RF rejection, may be limited in effectiveness by poor connector and/or chassis termination for the shield ends - see Neutrik's EMI XLR series