[jarnopp]

you'll never get better sound through adding extra amp. Just like you'll never get better sound through a recorded music compared to hearing it live in person. Another source added (whatever it may be) is another degration. You'll never get better picture through a plasma, oled, or ips, as seeing it live. all the same.

I don't know that this is correct. Wouldn't that be equivalent to saying you won't get better sound using an amp (any amp) after your preamp? However, if your preamp is not capable of driving your speakers, then fine, but most are probably not. That means you will always be better served b getting enough power to drive your speakers by using an amplifier if your preamp cannot do it (and for which it was not intended).

I understand that Rob and John feel the Mojo can drive virtually any headphone adequately, which would be great. In practice, it will be up to the listener to determine whether the Mojo sounds best with their setup on its own or with an amp.

I will say that I totally respect the design philosophy that says "we have taken this approach and believe this is the best way" and the passion and engineering behind it. I will always go for this over the "designed by committee to be unoffending and the 80% solution" because it will give you the single malt rather than the blend. Your job to determine if it's right for you and your system. From a product perspective, I want the ultimate expression of the designers' views. But, that doesn't mean my implementation will be the same as the designers' in all cases.

All theoretical, thought, for me, as I do not have my Mojo (yet), Liquid Carbon (yet) nor Dharma d1000 (seriously considering). I expect there will be folks with that chain and anxiously awaiting impressions...

 

[salla45]

  My take on this Mojo naked vs. Mojo + amp according to my own experience is, if you want to add colouration to the sound and are willing to sacrifice a bit of transparency, adding an amp will work, but of course it also depends on what amp and the portability consideration. The Mojo alone is not for a lack of power, but the honest representation of the music and no more no less. Using photography as an analogy, listening to the Mojo naked is like putting the sharpest lens in front of a high resolution digital camera. By adding an amp to the Mojo, it is like screwing a filter in front of the lens - in any case you are putting an extra layer of glass on top, you maybe adding an effect, but a bit of light is lost, and it will always take away some sharpness.
 
In my case I use both the Shure SE846 and Beyer T5p with the Mojo. The SE846 has great synergy with the Mojo alone. I don't feel I need to tweak it further by adding an amp, plus the package is portable so it defeats the purpose. OTOH I use the T5p at home or in the office, and the T5p could sound a bit lean and neutral. I found that by adding an amp to the Mojo, it will improve on the sonics by adding some body to the bottom end, but it will also take away the vivid 3D soundstage and crispness - exactly how an amp will make it more round, but losing that extra bite and sharpness. The picture now looks darker (i.e. not as bright), but it also looks like the "filter" is a bit dirty or something and some fine details are lost. It's give and take and I haven't decided which way I like more. Maybe the solution is to get rid of the T5p (T1 2nd gen anyone?) but I need closed phones for noise isolation...

interesting you say that. For me, there are 2 main factors to the Mojo sound which make it special;
 
1) Purity 
2) 3d sound
 
IMO they are basically related. If you put forward the purest sound possible, then, inevitably you're going to be getting those spacial phase subleties which create the illusion of 3d, along with purity of instrumental sounds, vocals, etc. Any thing in the chain subsequent to the Mojo will , also inevitably, eliminate some of the signal. And you're right, IMO, the transducer side may be a better bet to refine than putting amps or other gubbins in the line. 
 
I have had my eye on the T1's (originals mainly for the price vs 2nd gen incremental improvement may not be worth it?) for a while. I'd love to hear a pair with the Mojo. But then many reports of the HD800+Mojo are coming in very +vely also. Price is around double however

 

[TomGi]

Anyone else find usb connection more superior than optical connection? It's weird ad with Hugo it is otherway around.

The same for spdif input.
 
Until now, I prefer the USB input to the spdif input. And it's opposite to the Hugo.
 
To say it in a few word, with spdif input I think that the the Mojo has not the fidelity in the treble that I expected. So it affects a little the rendition of the tone of instruments.
 
With a "quiet" USB input, I feel this particularity less.

 

[verber]

you'll never get better sound through adding extra amp. Just like you'll never get better sound through a recorded music compared to hearing it live in person. Another source added (whatever it may be) is another degration. You'll never get better picture through a plasma, oled, or ips, as seeing it live. all the same.

I appreciate the principle of keeping the signal path as simple and clean as possible,.. but you are wrong. Most headphone and virtually all speakers need amplification. The design and quality of components determine how an amplifier will effect the sound. People often select amplifiers for a particular coloration... but it's also possible to build amplifiers which are pretty close to wire with gain.
 
In the face of a difficult load, having sufficient amplification allows the speaker to effectively produce sounds from the signal it receives even as the load from the speaker chances.  I am sure everyone here has heard a pair of headphones or speakers that was being driven by an amplifier that wasn't up to the task. Great headphones sounding awful because of an amplifier that isn't sufficient.  Note: how loud an amp can drive headphones is just one part of the equation, because it could be getting plenty loud but distorting the signal at the same time. The question is how does the amplified signal look compared to the source.
 
Does the Mojo need an external amplifier? I don't think so for the headphones I am using. Would it benefit from an external amplifier?  I suppose that would depend on the load and the amplifier. My IEM didn't benefit from the addition of an amplifier. My HD800 (to my ears) got better with a top performing amplifier and worse with amplifiers which weren't up to the task.
 
 
--Mark

 

[salla45]

I love the sound of Mojo driving the IE800 though!

 

   
 
I have Sennheiser IE800, Klipsch X11i Customs, Flare Audio Pro R2 Titanium Customs,  Sony XBA4ip, ACS Encore Studio Customs, Westone UM2 Customs - I've too many and I know I shall get more in time to come. I can't help myself. As for which is the best IEM. Who knows? I need to spend months listening to just what I've got to tell you which one I like most. Which is the best for Value for Money or sound quality or bass or soundstage or detail will take a long time to determine even on my collection. They all sound great!

oh yeah! I'm sure they would sound great too! I can see high end iem sales increasing haha! I would also love to  hear the SE846's. ALMOST got them in pref to the K3003's at the time, it really was 5050. It was weird, the K3003s were criticised in some quarters for their high end peak and the 846's for their roll off. I considered the IE800's but in the end the "reference" idea of the K3003 won me over. Top end is tamed by the use of comply foam tips. They sound great (really bring out the subleties of the Mojo). 
 
Takeanidea, you're right, Im quite sure! Must all sound great. Nice to have a selection of great IEM's to play with!

 

[NZtechfreak]

Would it benefit from an external amplifier?  I suppose that would depend on the load.

Yes, it would depend on the load. My HE6 sound like hot trash from the Mojo. Granted that's an extreme example, but given that many here are being quite absolute in their dogma it's still relevant to say. Even leaving that point to one side, you can take all of your own personal ideals about signal path and approach to audio reproduction and throw them out the window if someone else's ears prefer a different sound (for clarity, when I say 'you' that isn't a reference to verber, but to those dealing in absolutes here). Not much place for absolutism and dogma anywhere as far as I'm concerned, but so much less so in a subjective hobby.

 

[salla45]

Yes, it would depend on the load. My HE6 sound like hot trash from the Mojo. Granted that's an extreme example, but given that many here are being quite absolute in their dogma it's still relevant to say. Even leaving that point to one side, you can take all of your own personal ideals about signal path and approach to audio reproduction and throw them out the window if someone else's ears prefer a different sound (for clarity, when I say 'you' that isn't a reference to verber, but to those dealing in absolutes here). Not much place for absolutism and dogma anywhere as far as I'm concerned, but so much less so in a subjective hobby.

pardon my ignorance, but does "hot trash" mean it's good or bad? I know hot s**t means it's good (or does it?). These days bad = good or has that changed again now? I'm just getting too old!!

 

[NZtechfreak]

pardon my ignorance, but does "hot trash" mean it's good or bad? I know hot s**t means it's good (or does it?). These days bad = good or has that changed again now? I'm just getting too old!!

It sounds bad.

 

[sandalaudio]

someone posted about mojo driving Beyer t1 600ohm easily. has anybody tested Beyer dt880 600 ohm with mojo ? I recently bought Beyer dt880 600ohm but could not test it with my Hugo as Hugo is giving trouble due to internal battery. I hope Hugo to be repaired soon till then any impressions of Beyer with mojo ?

 
I've tried my T1 and DT880 600ohm and they both sound pretty good on the Mojo. If you are concerned about the volume level, you don't need to be worried. I could drive them at nowhere near the max level (I have no idea how high Mojo can go up, but it was Blue-Blue on the volume balls).
 
In terms of the sound quality, I think the Mojo pairs nicely with DT880, because this headphones often sound too edgy and thin when paired with some amps, but Mojo really brings out the 3D detail in the midrange without making the Beyers sound too analytical and "monitor-like". It's pleasant to say the least.
 

 

[Ivabign]

The plot thickens...
 
The hum is present when I start my Mojo with optical/AK100 - but not iMac/USB to Mojo.... 
 
So then I hooked the AK to the Mojo again and plugged the USB from the computer in at the same time - no hum.... pulled the USB out and was able to play the AK100 + Mojo with zero hum...
 
Maybe someone with a Mojo can tell me if they hear a hum from their headphones with the unit on and no source attached - that's what I hear - it goes away with the plugging in of a USB input, but not optical/AK100 - unless I also plug in a USB and remove it after a few seconds. Of course if I turn off the Mojo and back on again with no USB, the hum returns...
 
Am I doing something wrong? 

 
 
**Also - when playing high resolution music from my iMac (iTunes) no matter what the bitrate the song is encoded (AIFF 24/96, 24/88, others) the power switch is the same color (blue) it doesn't change like it does with the AK100...

 

[sandalaudio]

  The plot thickens...
 
The hum is present when I start my Mojo with optical/AK100 - but not iMac/USB to Mojo.... 
 
So then I hooked the AK to the Mojo again and plugged the USB from the computer in at the same time - no hum.... pulled the USB out and was able to play the AK100 + Mojo with zero hum...
 
Maybe someone with a Mojo can tell me if they hear a hum from their headphones with the unit on and no source attached - that's what I hear - it goes away with the plugging in of a USB input, but not optical/AK100 - unless I also plug in a USB and remove it after a few seconds. Of course if I turn off the Mojo and back on again with no USB, the hum returns...

 
I also hear the hum (more like shhhhh white noise) if I disconnect the Mojo from the USB (I'm using Beyer AK T8iE).
It's easy to reproduce, just plug and unplug the USB while Mojo is powered up. The amount of noise is not dependent on the volume position.
 
I thought that it was just a normal behaviour since the the noise disappears as soon as I connect the USB cable, but I guess it would be annoying in your case if the hum persists during S/PDIF playback.

 

[Duncan]

So, two questions...

If source direct is always best, why was there a popularisation of headphone amplifiers in the first place (when you could just as easily use the jack in the CDP, speaker amplifier, or MP3 player)?

Is anyone naysaying this absolutely sure that the load characteristics for any amplifier are the same as any other? Multi crossover IEMs handle substantially differently to a single dynamic driver, and I can say as an EASY to observe fact that the Pure II+ can drive the Layla's more cleanly (treble opens up, always an easy tell)...

That is the key here, what the load does to the amplification, and we know that is not perfect on the Hugo (hiss on IEMs and reported inability to drive harder cans like the HD800 to their upmost ability), so why can the same not be true here?

I'm happy either using mojo on its own, or with an amp strapped to its belly, however for cleaness of sound from top to bottom that award goes to the Vorzuge...

If I am, as others purport, living in a compromised world, so be it...

Edit: whilst I'm here, might as well add that adding a line level component to mojo's belly seems to eliminate the phone signal noise problem...

 

[griff2]

I think quoting multiple quotes has caused the text editor to throw a bit of a wobbly; I replied to a multiple quoted response and ended up with my response split over two messages. See my actual reply a few posts on.

 

[x RELIC x]

I also hear the hum (more like shhhhh white noise) if I disconnect the Mojo from the USB (I'm using Beyer AK T8iE).
It's easy to reproduce, just plug and unplug the USB while Mojo is powered up. The amount of noise is not dependent on the volume position.

I thought that it was just a normal behaviour since the the noise disappears as soon as I connect the USB cable, but I guess it would be annoying in your case if the hum persists during S/PDIF playback.

Sounds like the same issue I sent the tour unit back to Chord for. They fixed it rapidly and sent the same unit back. You shouldn't hear any shhhhhh whith nothing connected. I'd contact your reseller. Same for Ivabign. When the repaired unit came back it was silent with all inputs as well as with nothing connected, as it should be. Chord has said a few times on this thread that they'll take care of the ones that slipped through before the issue was discovered.

 

[x RELIC x]

...........

**Also - when playing high resolution music from my iMac (iTunes) no matter what the bitrate the song is encoded (AIFF 24/96, 24/88, others) the power switch is the same color (blue) it doesn't change like it does with the AK100...

From the mac you need to set the sampling rate manually in the Midi app or use a bit perfect software to output the appropriate bit rate/sampling rate. I use Audirvana+ but others have used Bitperfect with iTunes, as well as other software solutions.