[FidelityCastro]

If running headphones, the cdm adds its own flavor of warm and smootheness, also makes the mid richer. Some notable thing is low mids are even tighter then just the mojo alone and there is a feeling of a more enveloping sound. Is that better especially for the size and cost? I don't really know. I need more time with my mojo to tell but definitely to me it's more enjoyable.

Sounds fair enough. Well said - I know what you mean.

Chord chaps - two quick questions:
1) I seem to remember from an early Hugo thread that there was a specific reason why you decided not to have a balanced output on the Hugo (and I assume the Mojo).
2) Did you consider the option of being able to just use the Mojo (Hugo) DAC and let users bypass the amp and run into another amp? I think it's fair to say that your DAC is widely regarded as the best one. I'm a tube guy as a guitar player, so I like the warmth afforded by the CDM, for example. I think tassardar may feel the same way.

To answer my own question, I assume that the option to bypass the amp on the Mojo (Hugo) would appear to negate the whole point of having a combined DAC + amp in the first place. But as this is the rarified atmosphere of head-fi, we all love to combine boxes to leverage the best of each. E.g. the argument about spending big bucks on a DAP when it just becomes a transport with the Mojo/Hugo/CDM is that we also have the option to just use the nice DAP when pocket-size is the main factor (I'm leaving out the whole argument about the SQ being better with a nice DAP even when used a transport - we've had lots of back and forth on that one elsewhere).

 

[OK-Guy]

I just use The Force.

 
omg, omg it's you init, the infamous Obi-Castro ... cute disguise, you had me fooled...

 

[x RELIC x]

Sounds fair enough. Well said - I know what you mean.

Chord chaps - two quick questions:
1) I seem to remember from an early Hugo thread that there was a specific reason why you decided not to have a balanced output on the Hugo (and I assume the Mojo).
2) Did you consider the option of being able to just use the Mojo (Hugo) DAC and let users bypass the amp and run into another amp? I think it's fair to say that your DAC is widely regarded as the best one. I'm a tube guy as a guitar player, so I like the warmth afforded by the CDM, for example. I think tassardar may feel the same way.

To answer my own question, I assume that the option to bypass the amp on the Mojo (Hugo) would appear to negate the whole point of having a combined DAC + amp in the first place. But as this is the rarified atmosphere of head-fi, we all love to combine boxes to leverage the best of each. E.g. the argument about spending big bucks on a DAP when it just becomes a transport with the Mojo/Hugo/CDM is that we also have the option to just use the nice DAP when pocket-size is the main factor (I'm leaving out the whole argument about the SQ being better with a nice DAP even when used a transport - we've had lots of back and forth on that one elsewhere).

I recently posted this elsewhere regarding a similar question:

The Mojo doesn't have an amp 'section'. The interesting thing about the Hugo and Mojo is the DAC drives headphones directly from the DACs analogue output and there is no output via a separate headphone amp. This provides the best path for signal accuracy. This is very welcomed as the DAC in both units is very accurate and very capable.

Rob Watts, the designer of the units has posted many times regarding the headphone output design and capability from the Hugo DAC. You can read Rob's take on the tech behind the Hugo in this post:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/702787/chord-hugo/1830#post_10459450

Of note is his comments in item # 3 that he lists. In it he says:

............


3. The lack of DAC RF OP noise means that the analogue section can be made radically simpler as the analogue filter requirements are smaller. Now in analogue terms, making it simpler, with everything else being constant, gives more transparency. You really can hear every solder joint, every passive component, and every active stage. Now Hugo has a single active stage - a very high performance op-amp with a discrete op-stage as a hybrid with a single global feedback path. This arrangement means that you have a single active stage, two resistors and two capacitors in the direct signal path - and that is it. Note: there is no headphone drive. Normal high performance DAC's have 3 op-amp stages, followed by a separate headphone amp. So to conclude - Hugo's analogue path is not a simple couple of op-amps chucked together, it is fundamentally simpler than all other headphone amp solutions.


................

The output from Mojo is VERY clean, and it's basically impossible to bypass the amp as there really isn't one.

 

[FidelityCastro]

omg, omg it's you init, the infamous Obi-Castro ... cute disguise, you had me fooled... :wink_face:

Hmmm, use my mind to power on and off and skip tracks, I do.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131106213953/starwars/images/d/d6/Yoda_SWSB.png

 

[WCDchee]

Sounds fair enough. Well said - I know what you mean.

Chord chaps - two quick questions:
1) I seem to remember from an early Hugo thread that there was a specific reason why you decided not to have a balanced output on the Hugo (and I assume the Mojo).
2) Did you consider the option of being able to just use the Mojo (Hugo) DAC and let users bypass the amp and run into another amp? I think it's fair to say that your DAC is widely regarded as the best one. I'm a tube guy as a guitar player, so I like the warmth afforded by the CDM, for example. I think tassardar may feel the same way.

To answer my own question, I assume that the option to bypass the amp on the Mojo (Hugo) would appear to negate the whole point of having a combined DAC + amp in the first place. But as this is the rarified atmosphere of head-fi, we all love to combine boxes to leverage the best of each. E.g. the argument about spending big bucks on a DAP when it just becomes a transport with the Mojo/Hugo/CDM is that we also have the option to just use the nice DAP when pocket-size is the main factor (I'm leaving out the whole argument about the SQ being better with a nice DAP even when used a transport - we've had lots of back and forth on that one elsewhere).

To answer your question, it seems like you misunderstand the line out function of the Hugo and mojo. Both the Hugo and the mojo put out true line outs which do not pass through a separate amp stage.

In normal dacs, the design is such that the dac is unable to put out a large current without the signal deteriorating. The amplifier stage helps do this, it had a high input impedance resulting in the dac putting out a very Low current, maintaining the purity of the signal. The amplifier then puts out a larger current to the headphone, as it is designed to do.

In the Hugo and the mojo however, the dac is designed such that it can put out larger currents with minimal deterioration to the signal. As such, the "amplified" signal and the 'unamplified' signal are one and the same. The need for a headphone amp stage is completely removed as the dac's inbuilt function allows it to take over the function of the headphone amp.

Thus, the headphone out and line out signals are one and the same. Hope this helps!

 

[x RELIC x]

Hmmm, use my mind to power on and off and skip tracks, I do.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131106213953/starwars/images/d/d6/Yoda_SWSB.png

We may have cross posted. Check out my reply just above your Yoda speak. Some information straight from Rob Watts on Hugo's (and Mojo's) non-existent amp section.

Edit: Arg, more cross posts with WCDchee.

 

[FidelityCastro]

To answer your question, it seems like you misunderstand the line out function of the Hugo and mojo. Both the Hugo and the mojo put out true line outs which do not pass through a separate amp stage.

In normal dacs, the design is such that the dac is unable to put out a large current without the signal deteriorating. The amplifier stage helps do this, it had a high input impedance resulting in the dac putting out a very Low current, maintaining the purity of the signal. The amplifier then puts out a larger current to the headphone, as it is designed to do.

In the Hugo and the mojo however, the dac is designed such that it can put out larger currents with minimal deterioration to the signal. As such, the "amplified" signal and the 'unamplified' signal are one and the same. The need for a headphone amp stage is completely removed as the dac's inbuilt function allows it to take over the function of the headphone amp.

Thus, the headphone out and line out signals are one and the same. Hope this helps!

Thank you #WCDchee, I would always be the first to misunderstand the line out function (or indeed any other function - I tend to use The Force, as described above).
So to dumb down your very eloquent explanation, if I run my transport into the Hugo (sorry i know this is Mojo thread but hopefully relevant!) and then line out from the Hugo/Mojo into the CDM, using a 3.5mm - 3.5mm interconnect, I will be getting just the Chord DAC and then the other amp?

Thanks again.

 

[Mython]

Well...it is with a heavy heart that I say this....
 
 
It is approximately 9 hours since I last viewed this thread, and I was crestfallen.... absolutely appalled, actually, to find that there are 'only' 63 unread posts...

 

[howdy]

Well...it is with a heavy heart that I say this....


 


 


It is approximately 9 hours since I last viewed this thread, and I was crestfallen.... absolutely appalled, actually, to find that there are 'only' 63 unread posts...

 

Some people gotta sleep sometime.

 

[FidelityCastro]

Well...it is with a heavy heart that I say this....


It is approximately 9 hours since I last viewed this thread, and I was crestfallen.... absolutely appalled, actually, to find that there are 'only' 63 unread posts... :rolleyes:

Here's a summary:
We talked about the Rugby World Cup final.
Someone said a well-known Japanese company's DAP was miles better than the Mojo (but don't worry, John Franks had him put to death).
I kept being disruptive by talking about the Hugo.
Tassardar sent in his submission for the world's most expensive, "belt and braces" stack.
Some science was discussed.

There, you're up to speed.

 

[OK-Guy]

  Well...it is with a heavy heart that I say this....
 
 
It is approximately 9 hours since I last viewed this thread, and I was crestfallen.... absolutely appalled, actually, to find that there are 'only' 63 unread posts...

 
it maybe because I've managed to keep using a craptop & a lying-pc for the last few weeks... no more lying-pc crap about me making 'fatal errors' in a few hours time...

 

[musicheaven]

This is one thing I like about Chord designs, the lack of an amp section and directly driving the line outs. If I wanted to build a combination, I believe the Mojo + Cavalli Carbon HA would be a heck of a setup even if one does not want to have a portable element but you have to crack a little smile thinking that you are also gaining portability on the DAC side.

What do you think of the button implementation on the Mojo, how easy is it to handle while on the move and is a stack using a hi-res player connected to the Mojo worth it?

 

[OK-Guy]

Here's a summary:
We talked about the Rugby World Cup final.
Someone said a well-known Japanese company's DAP was miles better than the Mojo (but don't worry, John Franks had him put to death).
I kept being disruptive by talking about the Hugo.
Tassardar sent in his submission for the world's most expensive, "belt and braces" stack.
Some science was discussed.

There, you're up to speed.

 
you forgot about the Hammers... shame on you.

 

[WCDchee]

Thank you #WCDchee, I would always be the first to misunderstand the line out function (or indeed any other function - I tend to use The Force, as described above).
So to dumb down your very eloquent explanation, if I run my transport into the Hugo (sorry i know this is Mojo thread but hopefully relevant!) and then line out from the Hugo/Mojo into the CDM, using a 3.5mm - 3.5mm interconnect, I will be getting just the Chord DAC and then the other amp?

Thanks again.

That's right

Also, you would realise that if you use the same cables, amping the RCA/headphone outs of the Hugo would give you very close/exactly the same sounds

 

[FidelityCastro]

you forgot about the Hammers... shame on you.

Kent. Medway. Gotta be Charton or Palace, surely? Actually,

you forgot about the Hammers... shame on you.

Medway? Surely Gillingham?