Chord Electronics - Hugo 2 - The Official Thread
Aug 26, 2017 at 3:29 PM Post #7,546 of 22,475
So, brand new Hugo 2 is putting out a lot of hiss on the right channel, no music playing, no source connected. Connecting a USB source makes no difference. When music plays, it plays through both channels at the same volume, but the hiss is very loud on the right channel still. Hiss doesn't change in loudness as the volume is changed. Seems like a defective unit. Sigh.

Anyone come across this problem?

Now playing: Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark - Stanlow
 
Aug 26, 2017 at 3:30 PM Post #7,547 of 22,475
So, brand new Hugo 2 is putting out a lot of hiss on the right channel, no music playing, no source connected. Connecting a USB source makes no difference. When music plays, it plays through both channels at the same volume, but the hiss is very loud on the right channel still. Hiss doesn't change in loudness as the volume is changed. Seems like a defective unit. Sigh.

Anyone come across this problem?

Defective for sure
 
Aug 26, 2017 at 3:50 PM Post #7,548 of 22,475
So, brand new Hugo 2 is putting out a lot of hiss on the right channel, no music playing, no source connected. Connecting a USB source makes no difference. When music plays, it plays through both channels at the same volume, but the hiss is very loud on the right channel still. Hiss doesn't change in loudness as the volume is changed. Seems like a defective unit. Sigh.

Anyone come across this problem?

Now playing: Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark - Stanlow
Doesn't sound right to me. Sadly probably a return to dealer.
 
Aug 26, 2017 at 8:07 PM Post #7,550 of 22,475
if i use an ipad mini streaming tidal with H2 and the sample indicator is red 44.1 can i be fully assured the ipad mini tidal combo is neither upsampling or downsampling and the output is bitperfect? ie the hugo 2 indicator is totally accurate.

also has anyone used ios 10.3.3 with H2 and is all ok?
 
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Aug 27, 2017 at 1:06 AM Post #7,551 of 22,475
This is not easy to explain, but when I talk about timing I am not talking about linear timing due to frequency response, phase and time delays. These are linear effects and subjectively not important. So to give you an example, you talk about 40 kHz and the delay being about 1cm. Quite correctly, you comment that you can't hear that shift, and I absolutely agree; a linear (unvarying) shift of 1cm would be hard (impossible) to hear. But this is not where the problem occurs, as if the shift is non-linear - in other words, the 1cm delay is constantly changing randomly - then you absolutely would hear the change, as the brain uses timing information to perceive pretty much everything - pitch, timbre, sound-stage, instrument separation etc.; so if the timing on each channel is constantly and randomly changing then it becomes a massive perceptual problem.

The problem we have is down to the interpolation filter within the DAC. This filter is crucial, as it converts (together with the analogue filters) the sampled data back into the continuous signal that was originally in the ADC. Now to perfectly reconstruct the original you need a Whittaker-Shannon interpolation filter, and this is discussed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whittaker–Shannon_interpolation_formula

Basically, to reconstitute the original timing information perfectly, you need an infinite tap length sinc function. This is a mathematical fact, and absolutely no other filter will do it. My insight was the realisation that using a limited number of taps would degrade timing, and we would have effectively random timing errors (where the reconstituted signal would constantly change the timing of transients - sometimes too early, sometimes too late), and that these timing errors would be audible, as I knew how important timing is perceptually.

So my quest over the last 25 years has been to design interpolation filters that got as close as possible to minimising these non-linear timing errors. Today, with the M scaler, I now have the interpolation filter exactly the same as an ideal sinc filter to better than a 16 bit accuracy, as the coefficients are identical to ideal within 16 bits. But to do this, I needed 1,015,808 taps, which is a huge tap length. And anybody that has heard the M scaler will say one thing - it is not a small change. In the case of Hugo 2 it's about 13 bit accurate - that is, the coefficients in the WTA filter is the same as an ideal sinc filter to about a 13 bit accuracy. Every time you double the tap length, accuracy improves by 1 bit...

Thanks for the detailed reply and the Wikipedia link Rob. Much appreciated.
 
Aug 27, 2017 at 1:28 AM Post #7,552 of 22,475
as the timing is more accurate, the sound becomes more and more revealing and transparent. I have experienced this with Hugo. after Hugo I found many of the singers erring slightly on tune and notes which was not apparent earlier. even the tiniest of error in picking up of rhythm by the singer or player is clear. if one is not tuned to so much clarity and transparency , it may initially sound bright. also one may agree or not Hugo ( I don't have Hugo 2 yet ) takes about half an hour to sound fully coherent and after an hour or so it reaches to its full potential. may be initially it is revealing the limitations of cold electronics of associated equipments. so my advice is to listen your Hugo 2 patiently for more than half an hour and you may be pleasantly surprised.
 
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Aug 27, 2017 at 4:26 AM Post #7,553 of 22,475
Yeah. And that's my most lush, forgiving, and beautiful sounding set of NOS tubes pictured. Something is wrong here.

Kyle, I would go back to basics and to rule out all other gear causing you a problem. Try nothing but battery powered H2 with LCD headphones using all stock cables. Try a bit perfect noise free source such as iPhone playing back apple lossless file (make sure iphone/itunes music settings are defaults not adjusting sound and os x audio midi settings are set to correct sample rate such as 44/16 for apple lossless). Itunes volume should be fully up and volume controlled by H2. If using laptop as source make sure it's disconnected from everything and battery powered to rule out noise in the mains that can cause harshness and listening fatigue. You can also try connecting laptop via optical cable. Make sure no cable touches another cable as this can also introduce noise. My speakers buzz if laptop power cable touches my speaker cable.

If you still don't like it then either you have a faulty H2 or it's simply not for you.

One last consideration, sometimes for various reasons your own ears can cause distortion (for example if volume is too loud). Might be worth reading up on or getting checked out especially as you say you are ultra sensitive to high frequencies.
 
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Aug 27, 2017 at 6:20 AM Post #7,554 of 22,475
They're local purchased files from my iTunes library or streamed from Tidal and Spotify. All of which I'm very familiar with and sound lovely on other gear. Either way, a dac of this caliber should let me enjoy just about any well recorded digital file, not make me wince in anticipation of the next track killing my ears with sharp highs. But like I said, to be fair, I'll give it some time and see.

Wait... are you sure that the Mac is outputting the same frequency as the music you're playing? If you plug a Hugo 2 into a Mac via USB, it will automatically set the output to the highest frequency it can receive and use the crappy system up-sampling on any music you play. Can you check that Audio-Midi Set-up is not set to 768k output?
 
Aug 27, 2017 at 8:54 AM Post #7,555 of 22,475
So, brand new Hugo 2 is putting out a lot of hiss on the right channel, no music playing, no source connected. Connecting a USB source makes no difference. When music plays, it plays through both channels at the same volume, but the hiss is very loud on the right channel still. Hiss doesn't change in loudness as the volume is changed. Seems like a defective unit. Sigh.

Anyone come across this problem?
That's bad luck – definitely a defect. I can detect some hiss (the same in both channels) with the extremely sensitive Campfire Andromeda, in the comparison between connected and disconnected. It's very low in level and of an unobtrusive characteristic (rather pink than white noise), impossible to hear when music is playing.
 
Aug 27, 2017 at 9:23 AM Post #7,556 of 22,475
Ok here's where I'm at after 3 days. With the CA Vega, everything below the upper mids sounds incredible, everything above that is shouting in my ear with glare or stabbing my eardrums with tiny knives from the sharp treble response. No filter helps. It's that feeling where you're afraid to skip to the next track for fear of a bright intro that'll make you wish you had a towel to bite down on for the pain. Extremely hard digital sound not natural at all in those frequencies. With line level to WA22/LCD-4, some of that calms down but everything takes a step back and sounds rather flat and distant. I have to crank the WA22 volume up uncomfortably high to get any realistic kick drum impact, which makes the mids and highs shouty once again.

Reviews are saying H2 sounds very natural, and maybe over time it will, but right now mine just wants to scream upper frequency details in my ears and make me afraid to listen to any track that's the least bit bright. For a 4 month wait and costly upgrade over Mojo I'm not happy whatsoever. I'll give it an honest 30 day trial to see if it gets listenable, but if not it's gotta go.
Possibly you're not completely off the mark, especially if you're treble sensitive. To my ears the Hugo₂ has an upper-treble emphasis (of course not represented by the measured frequency response). Actually I like it, since it doesn't prevent it from sounding exceptionally smooth and additionally makes it fascinating, but I have to tame it down to make the sound «perfect». In an earlier post I posted a corresponding «compensation curve»:

31 Hz: –1 or –1.2 dB . / . 62 Hz: +0.2 dB . / . 2 kHz: +0.2 dB . / . 4 kHz: +0.4 dB . / . 8 kHz: + 0.4 dB . / . 16 kHz: –0.6 dB ........ (settings with an octave equalizer)

That's the setting that brings the Hugo₂'s tonal balance closest to the DAVE's. The low-frequency compensation is necessary to make the bass snappier and more impactful. Of course while you're at it, you could also make for an improved over-all tonal balance with your respective ear-/headphones. The Vega is known to have a V-shaped characteristic and a relatively sharp treble. I have decided to go for the Andromeda, which is said to sound passably neutral in comparison. But for me even the Andromeda is hard to swallow with its factory setting (= frequency response).

Every DAC (well, every electronics component) has its individual sonic fingerprint, hence it's a matter of synergy (compensating tonal flaws) if it ideally matches another component or a system (including the listener's ears) tonally. I strongly suspect that the Hugo₂ is the best DAC or DAC/amp you can get for the price, so it would be a pity to discard it just because of a bad tonal synergy, which is easily fixable.
 
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Aug 27, 2017 at 10:25 AM Post #7,558 of 22,475
That's bad luck – definitely a defect. I can detect some hiss (the same in both channels) with the extremely sensitive Campfire Andromeda, in the comparison between connected and disconnected. It's very low in level and of an unobtrusive characteristic (rather pink than white noise), impossible to hear when music is playing.
It now crackles as well as hisses on the right channel. It's a long weekend here in the UK, which means waiting until Tuesday for a swap :frowning2:

Now playing: Kante - Im Vorbeigehen
 
Aug 27, 2017 at 10:43 AM Post #7,559 of 22,475
When those that have and like the Hugo 2 read feedback like this it seems everyone is a rush to fix the "problem". It could simply not be your preferred signature and nothing will change that. Everything I like about the Hugo fits with your description all though I would use words like highly detailed, exceedingly revealing, clear, treble forward, open etc (there are probably better words to be used but hopefully you get my point). I have the Mojo as well which most people rave about and while I think it is hands down the best thing in its category it still isn't my favorite signature, being warmer than I prefer. Others described what you are talking about as their minds not being use to so much detail and they required an "adjustment period". It definitely does have a very direct signature but to my ears it's perfect. If you're use to bass being more dominant you could be turning it up louder than you should which exaggerates the upper end. I think the bass is perfect but others have complained that they wanted more. If you're using roon or another app that has eq you could always knock off a decibel or 3 around 7k to see if that eases things up a bit.

That said, I would give it a little more time and see if this signature will grow on you. Some people are simply more sensitive to treble though so it is what it is. Regardless, one of the joys in this hobby from my perspective is having gear with a variety of signatures you can choose from depending on your mood and genre of choice that day. Good luck.
You might be absolutely correct here, which is what I'm afraid of. If it's a sound signature issue where it is what it is and Hugo 2 just sounds like that, well I'll have to sell it and move on(or backwards to Mojo which is fantastic except the upper treble that sounds a little hazy through my very revealing headphones). My other option is running the Dana Lazuli cable which skews the tonality more to my preference of rich and warm but still highly detailed. It's just weird cuz when I auditioned H2 I never heard this sharp and bright piercing treble. I would definitely not have purchased it if I heard one peaky note in the upper frequencies. So I'll keep the faith for now, but if it's not for me it's not for me. That would be a shame though cuz it's definitely the best portable dac option out there for my IEMs and It's design is drool-worthy to me.
 
Aug 27, 2017 at 10:46 AM Post #7,560 of 22,475
You might be absolutely correct here, which is what I'm afraid of. If it's a sound signature issue where it is what it is and Hugo 2 just sounds like that, well I'll have to sell it and move on(or backwards to Mojo which is fantastic except the upper treble that sounds a little hazy through my very revealing headphones). My other option is running the Dana Lazuli cable which skews the tonality more to my preference of rich and warm but still highly detailed. It's just weird cuz when I auditioned H2 I never heard this sharp and bright piercing treble. I would definitely not have purchased it if I heard one peaky note in the upper frequencies. So I'll keep the faith for now, but if it's not for me it's not for me. That would be a shame though cuz it's definitely the best portable dac option out there for my IEMs and It's design is drool-worthy to me.

How about hooking up your gears to the Hugo 2 that you demoed and see if that unit gives off the same signature as yours.
 

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