[thomaskong78]

I received new HD 800S headphone yesterday.
Without any break-in, it did not show any hard edge.

Some IEM like Hifiman need more than 100 hours of break in before harsh treble is gone.

But after playing it for few hours, it seems to show more details and bass resonance.

From the review, I had expected HD 800S to sound bright and be prepared to apply equalization using Lyngdorf 2170 presets.

But driven by Chord Dave and Mscaler, it sounds neutral without any equalization.

I had played Chesky Jazz Sampler and Test disc to test soundstage width and depth.

It shows very sharp and precise focus but falls short of my 2 channel system in soundstage width and depth.

But placement of instrument is more precise with HD 800S than my 2 channel system of Lanshe 4.1 driven by Line Magnetic 508SET.

When I play "Surround Sound Demonstration CD" by Telarc, HD 800S gave very exciting presentation with fast and tight bass and precise focus without any hard edge.

I have two headphones and one IEM to compare with HD 800S.

The first one is 1MORE Triple-Driver Over-Ear Headphones sold by Drop at 130$.

This is light, pretty efficient and excellent value at 130$.

But compared with HD 800S, 1MORE Triple gave loose bass, less details and not precise focus.

1MORE Triple is no match at all with HD 800S.


The next one is Empire Zeus IEM sold by Drop(1k$ and 14 drivers in it).

Zeus IEM gave more sparkle with nice details.

But without equalization of 3db down at 6khz, Zeus sounds too bright overall while HD 800S sounds neutral without any eq..

Nice thing of Zeus IEM is very high efficiency to be driven by regular cell phone like Galaxy Note4.

Thus I will be happy to carry Zeus IEM out of town.

The placement of each instrument is slightly more precise with HD800s.

I will prefer playing HD800S to Zeus IEM at home.

The last one to compare is Stax 009S driven by KGSSV Carbon amplifier.

HD 800S gave wider and deeper soundstage than Stax 009S with more precise focus.

But Stax 009S give more musical sound with nuanced details, nice decay , more bass slam and texture.

HD800S give very tight and fast bass but not matching the authority of Stax 009s.

It bass sound like one note without texture.


The conclusion is that it is fun to listen to HD800S driven by Chord Dave and Mscaler with sharp focus, wide and deep soundstage and tight and fast bass.

But HD800S falls short of either Stax 009s or my 2 channel system in musicality.

I will keep HD800S for at least one year to enjoy its precise imaging.

Thomas

 

[thomaskong78]

That is not even necessary because crossfeed is ON for the headphones jack, RCA and XLR outputs if you turn it on with headphones plugged in. And it stays on when you unplug the headphones even though you cannot see the setting on the display.
That was part of the DAVE’s design. Great for Head-fi people, even those who want to use external tube amp.
But it can be annoying for people like me who switches between headphones and speakers as I always turn on crossfeed for headphones but I don’t always remember to turn off crossfeed before unplugging the headphones so I ended up getting unwanted crossfeed from my speakers.

After reading your post, I changed Crossfeed setting from 3 to 1.

With 1 setting, my 2 channel system does not get harmed in soundstage width and depth.

Thomas

 

[onlychild]

After reading your post, I changed Crossfeed setting from 3 to 1.

With 1 setting, my 2 channel system does not get harmed in soundstage width and depth.

Thomas

Cross-feed should be turned off completely for speakers and can only be changed when headphones are plugged into DAVE

 

[iDesign]

I have tired each of the corssfeed settings on the DAVE but ultimately preferred the off setting (except for mono recordings). As an aside, I was part of the early Qobuz USA beta and cancelled it several weeks after it was launched due to the poor selection. Over the past few months TIDAL has infuriatingly been posting/replacing more albums that are now only in MQA format and I decided to opt into Qobuz again. Thus far I am finding Qobuz has worked hard to onboard more suppliers and their 24/92 sound quality is significantly better than MQA albums begrudgingly played through the DAVE+Blu MKII.

 

[jacc]

I have tired each of the corssfeed settings on the DAVE but ultimately preferred the off setting (except for mono recordings). As an aside, I was part of the early Qobuz USA beta and cancelled it several weeks after it was launched due to the poor selection. Over the past few months TIDAL has infuriatingly been posting/replacing more albums that are now only in MQA format and I decided to opt into Qobuz again. Thus far, I am finding Qobuz has worked hard to onboard more suppliers and their 24/92 sound quality is significantly better than MQA albums begrudgingly played through the DAVE+Blu MKII.

I haven't tried Qobuz but agree that Tidal MQA sound a bit thin and bright through bludave

 

[iDesign]

I haven't tried Qobuz but agree that Tidal MQA sound a bit thin and bright through bludave

I feel MQA tracks played from TIDAL had a collapsed, dull sound with less spatial information when compared to Qobuz. I have previously written about the various methods streaming services allow artists and labels to submit albums and it is difficult to fully know the provenance of the albums and how they are modified with headers etc etc. We can't assume albums posted to any streaming service are perfect to begin with, in fact, there are many people who have analyzed them and found problems-- this is why I continue to purchase CDs.

 

[KMann]

I feel MQA tracks played from TIDAL had a collapsed, dull sound with less spatial information when compared to Qobuz.

I have the same experience when using DAVE + HMS and MQA via tidal. I listen to both Tidal and Qobuz, Tidal still has a larger selection and switch to Qobuz when the album is available.

 

[xxx1313]

Regarding the planned digital amp by Chord Electronics, I would have a few questions. Will its target group be mostly those who have a speaker setup or also headphone only listeners? As a digital amp will also have to convert digital to analog, can we expect it to contain a DAC section of similar quality to DAVE (probably with even better pulse array elements and analog components), right? Maybe @Rob Watts, John Franks or other people with more insight than me can comment. Thanks!

 

[Triode User]

Regarding the planned digital amp by Chord Electronics, I would have a few questions. Will its target group be mostly those who have a speaker setup or also headphone only listeners? As a digital amp will also have to convert digital to analog, can we expect it to contain a DAC section of similar quality to DAVE (probably with even better pulse array elements and analog components), right? Maybe @Rob Watts, John Franks or other people with more insight than me can comment. Thanks!

The info you ask is probably hidden by the volume of posts but basically the digital amps will be capable of being plugged straight into the MScaler without the need for an intermediate DAC. The signal from the MScaler can contain volume information. The power amps will be intended to be used with speakers. An ‘integrated’ amp was mentioned and which would have a headphone outlet. For those of us with Blu2 and Dave, the Dave would plug into the digital amp and would provide volume control because unlike the MScaler the Blu2 cannot control volume when plugged directly into one of the digital amps. The integrated version of the digital amp implies a volume control and so might allow Blu2 to be plugged direct into it but that is my guess.

This is all as remembered from posts a while ago and it is possible I might have misremembered bits or that plans have changed. Others might be able to correct or fill in the missing bits.

 

[ecwl]

Regarding the planned digital amp by Chord Electronics, I would have a few questions. Will its target group be mostly those who have a speaker setup or also headphone only listeners? As a digital amp will also have to convert digital to analog, can we expect it to contain a DAC section of similar quality to DAVE (probably with even better pulse array elements and analog components), right? Maybe @Rob Watts, John Franks or other people with more insight than me can comment. Thanks!

I have been thinking a lot about this question too.
Even though Rob Watts and John Franks design their products for Chord, I think they are as much collaborators as competitors in some ways. They have said so before, particularly in the area of amplifications. I think this type of healthy competition is what improves Chord products.
John Franks last commented on the digital amp in September 2018 where he doesn't think Rob Watts is ready to make digital amplifiers of higher power any time soon (he said a few years although I suspect that might be slightly hyperbolic)
Rob Watts has said that he is busy working on new products but not the ADC so presumably, he has been busy working on digital amp in 2019. But he also recently said he is in super busy mode with no end in sight in October 2019. Not sure if that means the product is close to being finished or whether it means he is stumped.
The only existing digital amp is really the Hugo TT 2 with its 8W unbalanced and 18W balanced output and 10-element pulse array
My personal suspicion based on how confident John Franks was is that it is difficult to scale up the power of the digital amp based on Rob Watts' design. I'm sure Rob Watts is out there to prove him wrong. If you go way back, I think the analog amplifier that Rob Watts designed with the most power is Deltec DPA50S which can go to 50W into 8 ohms. I suspect the challenge is that to get the best sound possible, you need some sort of forward feedback/noise shaping in order to avoid distortions particularly in the high frequency but once you ramp up the power, the amp might become more and more unstable. But this is pure conjecture. I think this is why John Franks thinks it'll be a challenge for Rob Watts to solve this problem. Not sure.
At the end of the day, we don't know how many elements the next digital amplifier will have, how much power it would push through, it's all speculation, like basically my entire post. And I know I don't know what I'm talking about as I have no engineering background.
Either way, I think when John Franks and Rob Watts are ready to announce the product, they will. Sometimes, Rob Watts can't stop telling us prior to the product being ready which is a lot of fun. And I'm sure the product will be amazing.
I figured that if the new digital amp when announced has enough power to drive my speakers, then I will buy it. Or else, I'll stick with my Chord Etude until the they release a higher powered version of the digital amp. Either way, I just assumed it'll be priced comparably to the Etude/Ultima line if the power of the digital amplifiers is in the same ballpark.

 

[EndGameSearch]

@Rob Watts

Have you recently changed any of the components within the Daves you are currently shipping? Perhaps Chord changed to a different type of BNC input connectors?

Here’s my issue....

I sold my Dave and BluMK2 a while back and bought a TT2 and HMS. A few months later I was missing Dave’s amazing transparency so bought another Dave and HMS for a different room. I’ll quickly summarize what was actually countless hours of trouble shooting. BNC input 1 and 2 are horrible. The music cuts in and out and there is a constant crackling noise that sounds more like direct contact electrical interference. With Input 3 and 4 it’s much better, but there is a popping / clicking noise in the right channel that can occur every few seconds, every 30 seconds, and it’s even disappeared for a few mins at times. It’s completely silent when the music is paused. When you start the music the noise begins in the right channel. Pause the music again and the pops and clicks continue for a couple seconds. It almost sounds like there’s a short or a charge is being released. My dealer was kind enough to send me his personal Dave which is fairly old (with the curved glass over the screen vs the flat glass on the new models). Dropping his Dave in place the problem went away. Dropping my TT2 in place the problem went away. I received another new Dave but the exact same problem was there again. Horrible on 1 and 2, better but still not acceptable with 3 and 4. I’ve taking every step you imagine to isolate the problem. From cutting power to unused circuits in my house, to moving the system to other rooms and testing each component in the chain. With HMS in bypass mode there are no issues. The same goes when I upsample to 176. As soon as it goes into DBNC the problem appears (just in the right channel) I’ve used the stock cables which exaggerated the issue. Pulse AG cables which helped but just a little, and I used the Wave BNC cables with the same results. I finally brought my AudioWise OPTO DX into the mix and the problem goes away. So now I have a working Dave, but I shouldn’t have to spend on OPTO DX and two UpTone LPS 1.2’s just to get HMS and Dave working. I tend to rotate my gear fairly quickly so now I am concerned about resell. It’s working for me, but as is I couldn’t sell it to someone without disclosing the issue.

Has anyone else experienced this problem with a new Dave? I suspect Chord changed something and Dave is simply more sensitive than TT2. The fact that an older Dave works and two new Daves have the same problem is quite telling. However, I really do not want to send it off to be repaired. This process has taken nearly two months and I’m tired of either going without music, or only being able to partially upsample the music. Dave on it’s own works just fine. The problem only arises when in dual BNC mode.

Thoughts will be appreciated....

(Edit - making a long post even longer - Even with the OPTO DX in place, I still hear an occasional pop/click in the right channel (and no, it’s not the HP or cable))

 

[iDesign]

”...Dave which is fairly old (with the curved glass over the screen vs the flat glass on the new models).“

I never noticed this before and now I’m curious to know what is the first DAVE serial number that had the flat glass. This must have been a very early running change.

 

[bidn]

@Rob Watts

Have you recently changed any of the components within the Daves you are currently shipping? Perhaps Chord changed to a different type of BNC input connectors?

Here’s my issue....

I sold my Dave and BluMK2 a while back and bought a TT2 and HMS. A few months later I was missing Dave’s amazing transparency so bought another Dave and HMS for a different room. I’ll quickly summarize what was actually countless hours of trouble shooting. BNC input 1 and 2 are horrible. The music cuts in and out and there is a constant crackling noise that sounds more like direct contact electrical interference. With Input 3 and 4 it’s much better, but there is a popping / clicking noise in the right channel that can occur every few seconds, every 30 seconds, and it’s even disappeared for a few mins at times. It’s completely silent when the music is paused. When you start the music the noise begins in the right channel. Pause the music again and the pops and clicks continue for a couple seconds. It almost sounds like there’s a short or a charge is being released. My dealer was kind enough to send me his personal Dave which is fairly old (with the curved glass over the screen vs the flat glass on the new models). Dropping his Dave in place the problem went away. Dropping my TT2 in place the problem went away. I received another new Dave but the exact same problem was there again. Horrible on 1 and 2, better but still not acceptable with 3 and 4. I’ve taking every step you imagine to isolate the problem. From cutting power to unused circuits in my house, to moving the system to other rooms and testing each component in the chain. With HMS in bypass mode there are no issues. The same goes when I upsample to 176. As soon as it goes into DBNC the problem appears (just in the right channel) I’ve used the stock cables which exaggerated the issue. Pulse AG cables which helped but just a little, and I used the Wave BNC cables with the same results. I finally brought my AudioWise OPTO DX into the mix and the problem goes away. So now I have a working Dave, but I shouldn’t have to spend on OPTO DX and two UpTone LPS 1.2’s just to get HMS and Dave working. I tend to rotate my gear fairly quickly so now I am concerned about resell. It’s working for me, but as is I couldn’t sell it to someone without disclosing the issue.

Has anyone else experienced this problem with a new Dave? I suspect Chord changed something and Dave is simply more sensitive than TT2. The fact that an older Dave works and two new Daves have the same problem is quite telling. However, I really do not want to send it off to be repaired. This process has taken nearly two months and I’m tired of either going without music, or only being able to partially upsample the music. Dave on it’s own works just fine. The problem only arises when in dual BNC mode.

Thoughts will be appreciated....

(Edit - making a long post even longer - Even with the OPTO DX in place, I still hear an occasional pop/click in the right channel (and no, it’s not the HP or cable))

Hi EndGameSearch,

I didn't experience the same issue, but one which may be related when I auditioned the HMS --> Dave combo and other DAC-amp at my dealer a while ago.
I reported about this audition in the Utopia thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-utopia-general-discussion.811273/page-735#post-15188208
but not about the issue as it seemed specific to the HMS --> Dave combination (so unrelated to the Utopia).

The issue I had was that, each time I swapped to another of my test tracks, I would hear an annoying "click" noise,
for me it was quite loud but I listen at super low volume levels.
The dealer tried to solve the issue by changing some settings in his streaming system,
but the result of this change was only that it shifted the click noise from the left channel to the right channel.
I didn't have this issue with the other DAC-amps I auditioned that day (before or after the HMS->Dave),
nor with the Dave alone at numerous previous times, as I normally use my dealer's Dave and streaming system when auditioning headphones there.

I don't know how old the dealer's Dave is, I would rather assume he has always been using the same one -- in this case it would be an old one -- but he may as well have changed it.

Hoping some people will have helpful answers,
bidn

 

[EndGameSearch]

Hi EndGameSearch,

I didn't experience the same issue, but one which may be related when I auditioned the HMS --> Dave combo and other DAC-amp at my dealer a while ago.
I reported about this audition in the Utopia thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-utopia-general-discussion.811273/page-735#post-15188208
but not about the issue as it seemed specific to the HMS --> Dave combination (so unrelated to the Utopia).

The issue I had was that, each time I swapped to another of my test tracks, I would hear an annoying "click" noise,
for me it was quite loud but I listen at super low volume levels.
The dealer tried to solve the issue by changing some settings in his streaming system,
but the result of this change was only that it shifted the click noise from the left channel to the right channel.
I didn't have this issue with the other DAC-amps I auditioned that day (before or after the HMS->Dave),
nor with the Dave alone at numerous previous times, as I normally use my dealer's Dave and streaming system when auditioning headphones there.

I don't know how old the dealer's Dave is, I would rather assume he has always been using the same one -- in this case it would be an old one -- but he may as well have changed it.

Hoping some people will have helpful answers,
bidn

Appreciate the response. I’ve eliminated my streamer from the equation by using different sources and even different m scalers while trouble shooting.

 

[audio_1]

Hi EndGameSearch,

I didn't experience the same issue, but one which may be related when I auditioned the HMS --> Dave combo and other DAC-amp at my dealer a while ago.
I reported about this audition in the Utopia thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/focal-utopia-general-discussion.811273/page-735#post-15188208
but not about the issue as it seemed specific to the HMS --> Dave combination (so unrelated to the Utopia).

The issue I had was that, each time I swapped to another of my test tracks, I would hear an annoying "click" noise,
for me it was quite loud but I listen at super low volume levels.
The dealer tried to solve the issue by changing some settings in his streaming system,
but the result of this change was only that it shifted the click noise from the left channel to the right channel.
I didn't have this issue with the other DAC-amps I auditioned that day (before or after the HMS->Dave),
nor with the Dave alone at numerous previous times, as I normally use my dealer's Dave and streaming system when auditioning headphones there.

I don't know how old the dealer's Dave is, I would rather assume he has always been using the same one -- in this case it would be an old one -- but he may as well have changed it.

Hoping some people will have helpful answers,
bidn

The clicks are caused by tracks having different sample rates. The Dave clicks when the track sample rate changes. The clicks can be eliminated by stopping playback of one track before commencing playback of one with a different sample rate. This works 99% of the time in my system. I only very occasionally get clicks after starting playback or changing sources. Always mute sources when changing them or Dave will also click.