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Discussion in 'High-end Audio Forum' started by magiccabbage, May 14, 2015.
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  1. Triode User
    I think you have found your answer (or at least probable answer). I get no drop outs ever by wiggling the cables. Can you try different bnc to bnc cables?
  2. Mikey99
    Unfortunately these are the only ones I have at hand, I will see if I can get another set from the dealer.
  3. zettelsm
    If you are experiencing drop-outs via DSD, look to your sources, network and/or cabling, not to the DAVE. I've successfully used DAVE by itself via USB, and now DAVE with Blu MK II (again, via USB) with an Uptone ultraRendu streamer (fed from a tricked out Mac Mini) and currently an Innuos ZENith streamer/server. Up to DSD256 with either. No dropouts. I run Roon on the ZENith. Now I don't ask the Innuos to do upsampling, sample-rate conversion or any Roon DSP -- the Innuos wasn't designed to do processor-intensive conversion or DSP. However I find it plays high-sample rate DSD at its native resolution, likewise PCM to 24/384 -- I don't have any PCM at higher rates -- just fine.

    Hope this helps,

    Steve Z
    Aslshark likes this.
  4. ecwl
    Thanks for the question because I never even thought of using Roon to play into my iPad Pro. I knew that I can play music into from iPad Pro via USB into Blu2 using iTunes/Tidal/Onkyo HF Player as I’ve done it a few times before. I didn’t re-test that functionality as it’s hard to hook up the whole thing as my main stereo is neatly tucked into shelves. But what I didn’t know was what sample rates I can play at with Roon. So I plugged my Mojo into my iPad Pro and played my music through Roon. Mojo works with all sample rates in PCM up to 768kHz. But I can’t get Roon to connect with my iPad Pro to play DSD natively so I had to convert DSD to 756.8kHz to play them back through Mojo. So I suspect that would be your experience with Blu2/M-Scaler too. Now I just learnt a new way to use Roon.
    musickid likes this.
  5. ecwl
    I don’t have Hugo M-Scaler but I do have Blu2. Since DAVE has two sets of dual BNC inputs, the first thing to try is BNC1&2 vs BNC 3&4. For example, for my DAVE, I simply cannot get BNC 1&2 to play without the dropouts whereas BNC3&4 works perfectly fine. Not sure why. Also, I definitely find that jiggling the cables can cause drop outs so that’s not unusual. That happens with my own DAVE or my dealer’s DAVE connected to my Blu2. If you can’t get BNC 1&2 AND BNC 3&4 inputs working without any dropouts, you probably want to take it back to the dealer and have them hook the M-Scaler to their DAVE/Qutest/Hugo TT 2 to make sure the M-Scaler is working properly.
  6. Mikey99
    That fixed it! Thanks for the advice. I wonder why this occurs, somewhat concerned that gear in this price range has a quirk like this. On to listening!
  7. Drewligarchy
    I just got finished with my two day demo of the DAVE and already miss it. I didn't end up purchasing it mainly because I found it slightly fatiguing with my Stax setup (KGSSHV Carbon, 009), and because DSD wouldn't work with my Aries - which sounded better. Also my dealer wanted current full retail ($11,300). There is potential I just needed to get used to the sound signature, as the fatigue was minor (much less than with the Bricasti M1 and Auralic Vega) - but wasn't going to shell out that money unless it was perfect. It did sound fantastic with both the 009 and my LCD 4 (via V281).

    The thing I appreciated most, ironically, was the tonality, the fluidity and depth. On live recordings specifically - I never experienced the "You are there" feeling like I did with the DAVE before.

    After doing some reading it looks like I made the right decision: While the Dave is great - it can be had for less, and now I am reading about people using the M Scaler with the Hugo 2, Qutest and TT2 (when its out) - which some have said is superior to the standalone DAVE. Dave is better with the Blu or M Scaler from what I've read.

    Basically, I'm curious not only around the truth of this - but for more specifics. Is the tonality generally the same as the DAVE with the MScaler/Blu - is there the same fluidity and same depth?

    I'm thinking a good option for me might be the TT2 with M Scaler when it comes out - as It may allow me to drive the LCD 4 directly with more power. I preferred the LCD 4 through the V281 with the Dave (but I preferred Focal Clear and Audeze LCD XC through the Dave direct).

    Mainly looking to see if the M Scaler in the Blu and Standalone, really takes these other devices to the level of the Dave. As DSD streaming also works with these other devices (albeit decimated) - I'd probably go with the Qutest or TT2 to find synergy.

    While I loved the original Hugo and Chord2Qute, I found the original TT too dark. I know the TT2 isn't out in the wild - but looking for more than just (it's better than or equal to the standalone DAVE) - and some specifics into tonality and technicalities.

    Any help is greatly appreciated. I wish the fatigue didn't occur with the DAVE and 009, but I think I can ameliorate it if given the time - and would like to know what I should try and demo with my 009 given what I've described above.

    Edit: I do realize this is a sensitive subject - as people have invested a lot on the DAVE and Chord has potentially provided that quality for less (or not) - I haven't tried the systems I've mentioned. Honest opinions from those who have evaluated these is greatly appreciated.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  8. musickid
    The hugo2/mscaler is more analytical and timing and timbre may be better than Dave. Dave is more transparent with more detailed resolution (20 pulse array on dave vs 10 on hugo2) and a wider/deeper soundstage than hugo2/mscaler having listened to both.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  9. zettelsm
    All I can do is give you my experience —

    First, with shopping DAVE and Blu MK II can be found for less than list, often significantly less. Since the Hugo M-scaler is new, it might be some time before prices start dropping for the HSM. Likewise, the TT2 when it reaches market.

    As to fluidity and depth of DAVE with Blu MK II — much, much, much better. And though I never thought the DAVE by itself bright or edgy — indeed, I thought the DAVE the best DAC I’d ever heard in terms of natural, vibrant, lifelike sound — the DAVE with Blu MK II is a combination that takes digital music reproduction to a level I didn’t think possible. I’ve got a very decent analog front end and though I still spin vinyl, most of the time now I sit down and queue something up in Roon and don’t ever find myself thinking, “I wish this was available on vinyl”, let alone, “I bet this would sound better on LP”. In fact, every evening I look forward with great anticipation to sitting down and listening to music via Blu/DAVE. A year ago if you had told me I could very contentedly listen for hours at a time to digital music in my home, with never a thought about how analog was better, I’d have thought you very optimistic to say the least.

    As to Blu MK II or HSM with other Chord DACs relative to DAVE alone, unfortunately I can’t help you there. No experience. I’m willing to bet that a less expensive HSM and DAC would definitely give DAVE alone a real run for the money. That is the way of the world — succeeding generations of equipment often give better performance at less, sometimes significantly less, cost. Not a sensitive issue for me at all.

    Hope this helps,

    Steve Z
    Aslshark likes this.
  10. Triode User
    If you found Dave ‘fatiguing’ I am not sure that TT2 and MScaler will be any more to your taste. I always think of the MScaler sound as being like Dave but more so (if that makes any sense). But the only way to find out is to wait for the TT2 to be on demo and then have a listen with the MScaler.
  11. Drewligarchy
    I only found Dave fatiguing with the 009 system. The crazy thing is that it doesn’t sound fatiguing - it just was. It sounded great. This is the same problem I’ve had with the Bricasti M1 SE and Auralic Vega with the system. And to my ears, Dave is not bright - whereas the other two could be. The only thing I could listen to the 009 with was the Yggdrasil, which I found good - I like the sound of the other DACs I mentioned better.

    I THINK I’ve found my culprit. I have been using an LDR passive preamp for a couple years since I got the system. While it sounds completely transparent, I just found some figures which are indicating that I am potentially getting 5% THD with it. I have been listening to the Vega for a few hours on the 009 and no fatigue! I happened to take the passive out of the mix. Then I started searching around to figure out why. I saw that figure and I’m like - wow. Could this be what’s been causing fatigue all this time? I mean I could never stand the Vega with this setup? I’ll have to listen for a few mor nights but I am just astonished.

    The amount of headaches (literally and figuratively), buying, selling and demoing DACs for years - and its all potentially because of this pre?

    First, I can’t believe it wasn’t audible. But could this be the cause of my listening fatigue?
  12. Drewligarchy
    Also anyone know of a dealer where I might be able to get a Dave with some discount off the list price?
  13. x RELIC x Contributor
    Yes, it could be. While only you can determine the cause of the listening fatigue in your system - be it the transducers, the pre, or some other link in the chain - it's very likely that 5% THD from the pre would affect the sound. Distortion can do funny things from causing a warm tilt to components all the way to the other end of the spectrum which may cause fatigue or harshness. Distortion doesn't always present as recognizable distortion and many who 'clean up' their system find this out.
  14. Triode User
    Agreed and sometimes you only realise there was a problem when you manage to get rid of it.
    Paul Bjernklo and x RELIC x like this.
  15. dac64
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