[Jawed]

But I don't know if this would mean the M-Scaler's USB audio output could be used with ANY DAC that accepts PCM768kHz ? Or if that signal would be locked somehow for use with Chord DACs only?

I doubt that locking to Chord DACs has been Chord's intention.

BNCs on Blu 2 are there for compatibility with the original Blu users' systems: Blu has BNC outputs too, so Blu 2 is a drop-in replacement.

In theory BNCs are also good for very long connections. So BNC looks like a reasonable solution.

DAVE is a microscope for RF though...

Now playing: Liza Anne - I am not in Love Anymore

 

[flyte3333]

I doubt that locking to Chord DACs has been Chord's intention.

BNCs on Blu 2 are there for compatibility with the original Blu users' systems: Blu has BNC outputs too, so Blu 2 is a drop-in replacement.

In theory BNCs are also good for very long connections. So BNC looks like a reasonable solution.

DAVE is a microscope for RF though...

Now playing: Liza Anne - I am not in Love Anymore

Yes, not questioning the use of BNC at all. I'm thinking (dreaming) forwardly.

 

[doraymon]

I don't want to open a can of worms but can anyone comment by direct experience the difference between Clear and Utopia straight out of DAVE?

 

[jaspal kallar]

I have both Omega Super Alnico Monitors and Voxativ 9.87's (with the 4D drivers). A buddy has the Omega Compact Alnico Monitors, so we're comparing these all the time. @romaz also has a custom Voxativ setup.

Voxativ is completely next level vs the Omegas (speed, detail, imaging, sensitivity, etc) when driven by BluDAVE, but materially more expensive (Omega SAMs are one of the best deals in audio, when paired with Hugo2 or DAVE)

Do you or your buddy need to use a sub with either of your Omega speakers when used directly with Dave/Hugo 2 (eg nearfield; max 7 feet from listening position to the speakers) ?

 

[ray-dude]

Do you or your buddy need to use a sub with either of your Omega speakers when used directly with Dave/Hugo 2 (nearfield; max 7 feet from listening position to the speakers) ?

The Voxativ 9.87's come bundled with the Voxativ dipole bass units, which are absolutely remarkable: dual high efficiency 98dB sensitivity drivers facing each other, driven by a 250W class A/B amp. By far the cleanest and fastest and most musical bass I've ever heard. If you need a sub for any musical system (Voxativ or no), you must give these a listen.

When I was running my Omega Super Alnico Monitors, I experimented pairing with my JL Audio F112v2 sub, but I didn't find it strictly necessary. The Omega SAMs very comfortably get to the mid 30's. The sub was wonderful for filling out the resonances from various instruments (piano, strings, etc) and you definitely heard a richer, more full sound, but the SAMs by themselves were very satisfying for me.

The Omega Compact Alnico Monitors were a bit thinner, giving up maybe 5-7Hz on the low end. I found that I really wanted some additional heft at the low end when listening to the CAMs.

As an interesting aside, my buddy recently snagged a First Watt F1J amp http://www.firstwatt.com/f1j.html . This is a 10WPC class A current amp, that in theory is more immune to variable impedance loads from the driver. In theory, it is very well matched to single driver units like the Omegas.

The combination of the F1J with the Omega SAMs blew us away. To give you a sense of the moment, within 5 seconds, people were exclaiming WOW! and my buddy had his arms in the air yelling "Yes!"

They sound like full range speakers now(!), with bass clearly audible into the mid 20s (although diminished) with even more incredible dynamics and rich full presence (usually a weakness of the Omegas). Absolutely no sub required with the SAMs if you have this amp! The F1J is powering through any load quirks from the Omega drivers and taking names!

As context, I have also driven the SAMs with a Classe CT-2300 amp (300WPC) and Benchmark AHB2 amp (100WPC) that were normally connected to my (dearly departed) B&W802d3 speakers. Using those more traditional amps, Omega SAMs sounded like OK bookshelf speakers. Absolutely nothing like revelation we heard with the F1J's!

He's loaning it to me for the weekend, so I'll be playing with it with my Omega SAMs and Voxativs and BluDAVE, to get a better sense of the tradeoffs between transparency and imaging (from having an amp in the chain) and dynamics and range (from having a kick ass current amp in the chain)

(edit: corrected First Watt F1 to First Watt F1J)

 

[Mython]

I’ve added a Toslink output to my Blu 2 as follows:

A male BNC to RCA male adaptor on the Blu 2’s digital out:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009OARV4K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The following SPDIF to Toslink convertor:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002WSAB8E/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have a spare LPS-1 (after upgrading to the LPS 1.2) which I use to power it - 5v/1A

The Toslink cable supplied with the Dave goes from the convertor to the Dave. All upsampling is turned off, so it’s just plain vanilla Red Book into the Dave. It sounds glorious and much better than BNC Blu 2 to Dave. I’m afraid the interface between the RFI generated by the BLU 2 and Dave’s ground plane is a major issue for me.

I accept, this is a rather odd arrangement, and probabably not for anyone apart from an oddball like me. I now have two optical sources into the Dave — the above and and Aries Mini for Tidal, and battery USB, an IsoRegen with LPS-1.2 battery power supply. All sound good to me.

Frankly, I'm very disappointed that some of you uber-geek audiophiles in this thread haven't bothered to build a Faraday cage around your listening room, and around each of your components.

Shame on you, for being so slack!

 

[rayl]

Frankly, I'm very disappointed that some of you uber-geek audiophiles in this thread haven't bothered to build a Faraday cage around your listening room, and around each of your components.

Shame on you, for being so slack!

I suggested this several months back (or at least that someone may want to try an RF testing box), but it seems like the consensus is that noise is introduced by components within the system feeding into other components.... so no go!

 

[Mython]

I suggested this several months back (or at least that someone may want to try an RF testing box), but it seems like the consensus is that noise is introduced by components within the system feeding into other components.... so no go!

That's a good point, but I still feel it demonstrates a lack of initiative!

 

[jarnopp]

The Voxativ 9.87's come bundled with the Voxativ dipole bass units, which are absolutely remarkable: dual high efficiency 98dB sensitivity drivers facing each other, driven by a 250W class A/B amp. By far the cleanest and fastest and most musical bass I've ever heard. If you need a sub for any musical system (Voxativ or no), you must give these a listen.

When I was running my Omega Super Alnico Monitors, I experimented pairing with my JL Audio F112v2 sub, but I didn't find it strictly necessary. The Omega SAMs very comfortably get to the mid 30's. The sub was wonderful for filling out the resonances from various instruments (piano, strings, etc) and you definitely heard a richer, more full sound, but the SAMs by themselves were very satisfying for me.

The Omega Compact Alnico Monitors were a bit thinner, giving up maybe 5-7Hz on the low end. I found that I really wanted some additional heft at the low end when listening to the CAMs.

As an interesting aside, my buddy recently snagged a First Watt F1 amp http://www.firstwatt.com/f1.html . This is a 10WPC class A current amp, that in theory is more immune to variable impedance loads from the driver. In theory, it is very well matched to single driver units like the Omegas.

The combination of the F1 with the Omega SAMs blew us away. To give you a sense of the moment, within 5 seconds, people were exclaiming WOW! and my buddy had his arms in the air yelling "Yes!"

They sound like full range speakers now(!), with bass clearly audible into the mid 20s (although diminished) with even more incredible dynamics and rich full presence (usually a weakness of the Omegas). Absolutely no sub required with the SAMs if you have this amp! The F1 is powering through any load quirks from the Omega drivers and taking names!

As context, I have also driven the SAMs with a Classe CT-2300 amp (300WPC) and Benchmark AHB2 amp (100WPC) that were normally connected to my (dearly departed) B&W802d3 speakers. Using those more traditional amps, Omega SAMs sounded like OK bookshelf speakers. Absolutely nothing like revelation we heard with the F1!

He's loaning it to me for the weekend, so I'll be playing with it with my Omega SAMs and Voxativs and BluDAVE, to get a better sense of the tradeoffs between transparency and imaging (from having an amp in the chain) and dynamics and range (from having a kick ass current amp in the chain)

Looking forward to your impressions. I would consider for driving the HE-6s. Do you know if it’s the original F1 or the F1J?

 

[ray-dude]

Looking forward to your impressions. I would consider for driving the HE-6s. Do you know if it’s the original F1 or the F1J?

Sorry, it is a F1J. I'll edit my original post to correct (thank you)

Comparing the BluDAVE + F1J + Omega SAMs to BluDAVE + F1J + Voxativ 9.87's is quite interesting actually. For folks that have been tracking some of my recent investigations, I've been quite keen on unwinding the output section of the DAVE and understanding what impact power can have on dynamics and imaging with same. This test has been quite informative in that quest.

With the SAMs + F1J, dynamics and speed and fullness are way beyond what I've heard going direct from BluDAVE to the SAMs. This is a huge (but very pleasant) surprise. There is a general loss of transparency and imaging (depth esp.) but a lot less than I've experienced with other amps. The transparency and sound stage of the SAMs + F1J is still miles better than what I've heard with my B&W 802d3's, and the presence is within respectable (long) spitting distance (pretty incredible for a single driver speaker that costs 10x less). This combination is a phenomenal "traditional" two channel setup.

With the BluDAVE + F1J + Voxativ, speed and dynamics actually seem to be going backwards from the baseline of BluDAVE direct to Voxativs (and detail/soundstage/imaging even more backwards). This is all normal behavior that I would expect when putting an amp between BluDAVE and high efficiency speakers. Huh.

So early hypothesis: is DAVE direct not able to keep up with the more demanding Omega SAMs (98dB sensitivity), but has no issue keeping up with the higher sensitivity Voxativ's (104dB sensitivity)? That would point to the output stage of the DAVE being not being able to fully drive the current the Omega needs for dynamics, but having a lot easier time driving the Voxativ's. How much is the DAVE switching supply supply being able to drive current to the op amps, and how much is the op amps themselves? If someone has access to a prototype of Rob's digital amp, I'd be delighted to put this hypothesis to the test

So based on my listening tests today, here are my take aways:

* For those that appreciate Chord "realism" but still want that visceral impact from music (what I think of as "power" or presence centric listeners), the combination of DAVE + a high brow current amp + single driver speakers is incredible. I would take BluDAVE + F1J + Omega SAMs over BluDAVE + big amp + B&W 802d3's any day of the week.

* For those of us that are more imaging/detail centric (what I think of "phase" or space centric listeners), the F1J still takes away a lot of that wonderful magic going DAVE direct gives you. Get more sensitive and faster transducers (like the Voxativ drivers) and enjoy.

Now where can I get my hands on that prototype Chord digital amp so I can see if one can get "power" and "phase" at the same time?

 

[elviscaprice]

* For those that appreciate Chord "realism" but still want that visceral impact from music (what I think of as "power" or presence centric listeners), the combination of DAVE + a high brow current amp + single driver speakers is incredible. I would take BluDAVE + F1J + Omega SAMs over BluDAVE + big amp + B&W 802d3's any day of the week.

* For those of us that are more imaging/detail centric (what I think of "phase" or space centric listeners), the F1J still takes away a lot of that wonderful magic going DAVE direct gives you. Get more sensitive and faster transducers (like the Voxativ drivers) and enjoy.

I would think this is very dependent on room size and amount of needed volume/power being driven. Glad to hear of an amp that doesn't diminish too significantly from DAVE resolution. For us nearfield listeners, with the single non power hungry Alnicos (bass) Omegas, that don't reach as deep in the bass range, are probably better served with DAVE direct, just like you found with your Voxativ's. I like the newer REL's (subs) for added power and matching in the lower range, without effecting the Omega's resolving mid to high range output. Have great synergy.

 

[ray-dude]

I would think this is very dependent on room size and amount of needed volume/power being driven. Glad to hear of an amp that doesn't diminish too significantly from DAVE resolution. For us nearfield listeners, with the single non power hungry Alnicos (bass) Omegas, that don't reach as deep in the bass range, are probably better served with DAVE direct, just like you found with your Voxativ's. I like the newer REL's (subs) for added power and matching in the lower range, without effecting the Omega's resolving mid to high range output. Have great synergy.

Nearfield Omegas being driven by (Blu)DAVE is something extra special! I'd be loathe to diminish any of that remarkable holographic soundstage (phenomenal) with an amp, no matter what it added elsewhere.

I should clarify that while the First Watt F1J did significantly fill out the bass of the Omega Super Alnico Monitors, the biggest surprise for me was how significantly it lifted the dynamics and speed of the SAMs across the board. You'd definitely hear that near field or far field, but as a "phase" guy, I'd never trade that holographic near field soundstage for that lift in dynamics with the amp. My buddy who bought the F1J (who is a "power" guy) most definitely would. The combo with the F1J is perfect for him (I'm very happy for him).

Which model RELs have you found a good match? The JL Audio's are wonderful, but a bit impractical in a near field setup. My "someday" plan for my Omega SAMs (once I have a real office again) is to have them near field at work, and would love to pair them with a practical sub.

 

[doraymon]

After a few more hours I can confirm my initial impressions of the direct USB connectIon Dave / Mac mini and the connection through SOtM network player / USB cleaner sounding extremely close.

Shocking, I would have thought the sCLK-EX component a clear outright winner. Are you bridging to it? Did you give it some break in time? Are you using a good power supply? If it's not determinable doing it manually, it isn't worth the upgrade.

For reasons to me unclear (hardware or brain brake-in?) after a few hours with the Dave I start hearing a difference between direct USB connection and networked solution although these differences are evident only by A/B-ing the two (OMG, what verb is this?) during a critical listening session.
I always try to remain open to what my ears tell me, no matter which is the common opinion on a setup or the other. In this case however I am struggling to form an opinion.
Eventually I decided to add a reference point: direct optical connection between my MacBook Pro and Dave.
So eventually I've been able to compare:
1) Mac mini running Roon Server > USB to Dave
2) Mac mini running Roon Server > AQ-SWITCH-SE > sMS-200ultra > tX-USBultra > USB to Dave
3) MacBook Pro (battery powered) running Audirvana Plus > optical to Dave

To cut the long story short these are my main findings:
1) Again the differences are not night and day but indeed solution 3 offered the most enjoyable, full and non-fatiguing sound. Unfortunately for several reasons this is not a sustainable solution (placement, storage capacity and use of the laptop for other purposes).
2) All three solutions displayed a similar level of detail retrieval (huge, as you know) with solution 2 and 3 sounding slightly more 3D
3) Probably the biggest difference among the three was the bass, with solution 3 delivering a much fuller, rich bass, followed closely by solution 2
4) I'm not sure weather the use of Audirvana instead of Roon with the optical connection introduces an additional source of inconsistency between setups but I couldn't get Roon on the MacBook Pro to control the Dave through optical yet.

In this comparison the networked solution appears to sound closest tot the optical despite having 3 additional "boxes".

I will keep on comparing in order to decide if I will keep the SOtM chain or sell it.

 

[flyte3333]

For reasons to me unclear (hardware or brain brake-in?) after a few hours with the Dave I start hearing a difference between direct USB connection and networked solution although these differences are evident only by A/B-ing the two (OMG, what verb is this?) during a critical listening session.
I always try to remain open to what my ears tell me, no matter which is the common opinion on a setup or the other. In this case however I am struggling to form an opinion.
Eventually I decided to add a reference point: direct optical connection between my MacBook Pro and Dave.
So eventually I've been able to compare:
1) Mac mini running Roon Server > USB to Dave
2) Mac mini running Roon Server > AQ-SWITCH-SE > sMS-200ultra > tX-USBultra > USB to Dave
3) MacBook Pro (battery powered) running Audirvana Plus > optical to Dave

To cut the long story short these are my main findings:
1) Again the differences are not night and day but indeed solution 3 offered the most enjoyable, full and non-fatiguing sound. Unfortunately for several reasons this is not a sustainable solution (placement, storage capacity and use of the laptop for other purposes).
2) All three solutions displayed a similar level of detail retrieval (huge, as you know) with solution 2 and 3 sounding slightly more 3D
3) Probably the biggest difference among the three was the bass, with solution 3 delivering a much fuller, rich bass, followed closely by solution 2
4) I'm not sure weather the use of Audirvana instead of Roon with the optical connection introduces an additional source of inconsistency between setups but I couldn't get Roon on the MacBook Pro to control the Dave through optical yet.

In this comparison the networked solution appears to sound closest tot the optical despite having 3 additional "boxes".

I will keep on comparing in order to decide if I will keep the SOtM chain or sell it.

Very very similar to my findings a page or three ago.

Since you have Roon, could you try comparing an iOS endpoint (iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch), running off battery (don't connect to a wall charger) feeding Dave?

You need this: https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter

It sounds the best of the bunch to me... Battery powered, low power consumption USB audio source. But not the most practical, needing battery re-charging, even if you bought a large powerbank for it. Hence I only use this for critical listening and my TOSlink source is enjoyable enough for long fatigue free listening most of the time.

But for me, this is the reference sound to beat. No leakage currents, no RF, no ferrite beads needed and the nice expensive clock right next to Dave's FPGA is controlling the timing (I'm just copying parts of what Rob has taught me).

You can even load the Neutron Music Player app on it to turn it to a UPnP endpoint (with Audirvana for example).

 

[doraymon]

Very very similar to my findings a page or three ago.

Since you have Roon, could you try comparing an iOS endpoint (iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch), running off battery (don't connect to a wall charger) feeding Dave?

You need this: https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter

It sounds the best of the bunch to me... Battery powered, low power consumption USB audio source. But not the most practical, needing battery re-charging, even if you bought a large powerbank for it. But for me, this is the reference sound to beat. No leakage currents, no RF, no ferrite beads needed and the nice expensive clock right next to Dave's FPGA is controlling the timing (I'm just copying parts of what Rob has taught me).

You can even load the Neutron Music Player app on it to turn it to a UPnP endpoint (with Audirvana for example).

Yes I have the camera adapter and will try with my iPad.
Not sure however how that will work as the music is stored on the Mac mini, so why connecting the iPad to Dave? Will that work only for streaming?
I’m confused