CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[marcmccalmont]

@Rob Watts interesting to know that usb is superior to AES from a one boxed streamer like the most praised N10. I read somewhere in forum that Chord Dacs are immune to jitter. Although it is reported that OXCO internal clock inside N10 that is linked to it's Coax and AES output proved to sound better than the (unclocked) USB out.


Thanks and I will keep it in consideration.

I found the N10’s coax (CA cable no ferrites) output to work best in my system the usb was second I did not try the AES

 

[marcmccalmont]

Earlier I said I would post results of my headphone amp search. The reason for the search is I’m not 100% happy with the Focal Utopias bass plunged directly into either Hugo2 or Dave. I was using a modified Spectral dmc20 as a headphone amp but Dave is a couple orders of magnitude cleaner and you can hear the veiling but the bass is tight and articulate. I pulled out my modified Bryson BHA1, much cleaner plus tight articulate base. I got my hands on a Questyle cma800r even cleaner but sounded a bit lean with the Utopias interestingly sounded excellent with my HD800’s So the BHA1/Utopias will remain in my primary system the CMA800r/HD800’s I’ll use in my secondary system both excellent solutions

 

[minibox]

Earlier I said I would post results of my headphone amp search. The reason for the search is I’m not 100% happy with the Focal Utopias bass plunged directly into either Hugo2 or Dave. I was using a modified Spectral dmc20 as a headphone amp but Dave is a couple orders of magnitude cleaner and you can hear the veiling but the bass is tight and articulate. I pulled out my modified Bryson BHA1 and much cleaner plus tight articulate base. I got my hands on a Questyle cma800r even cleaner but sounded a bit lean with the Utopias interestingly sounded excellent with my HD800’s So the BHA1/Utopias will remain in my primary system the CMC800r/HD800’s I’ll use in my secondary system both excellent solutions

Have you heard your utopia’s with a Dave -> Eddie Current Zana Deux? At our last headphone mini meet I tried this combo and it was my favorite pairing.

 

[marcmccalmont]

Have you heard your utopia’s with a Dave -> Eddie Current Zana Deux? At our last headphone mini meet I tried this combo and it was my favorite pairing.

No I’m not familiar with that amp? Which other amps did you audition?

 

[Jawed]

I have never seen that suggested. On the contrary and as discussed Rob says the source of the RF is the MScaler circuit and this gets into the dual bnc. My personal listening tends to confirm that the faux brightness and detail associated with RF is there just the same whether from CD playback on the Blu2 or whether streamed to Blu2 via usb.

More than one person has commented on the Blu 2 thread that they discovered that USB sounded bad by comparison with CD replay and then spent a lot of effort to get USB to sound as good as CD replay.

I'm not suggesting that CD replay doesn't need help from ferrites. Merely that RF problems encountered with CD replay are far less than those encountered with USB playback via Blu 2.

I was actively listening for the differences Rob has mentioned that battery powered USB source edges optical in terms of flow and focus... I couldn't hear it ! I really wanted to hear those differences too to give me an excuse to keep the microRendu !!

I'm fairly sure you're wrong in attributing this to Rob and that it's not his current opinion. He is quite categorical now: optical is the reference and USB, at best, can merely equal it.

3. Leakage currents (and their effects and associated RF effects) getting into the Dave are bad. I think Rob has used the term fungus somewhere before.

No, Rob has said that RF is like fungus.

Well, you might know better than Rob Watts but even in a YMMV situation I think I would go for USB rather than AES into Dave. I doubt that the cables themselves would tilt the balance in favour of AES but it would be interesting to get your feedback.

AES and USB are both differential signal standards, though USB has more connections because of the requirement to provide power.

The problem with AES is that pin 1 is often connected to the cable's shield at both ends. This means that RF noise in the source is transmitted into the destination.

A correctly built AES cable has nothing connected to pin 1 at the destination end. I'm pretty sure that such an AES cable will sound vastly better into DAVE because many people have reported that a cable built this way sounds much better into other DACs. These reports go back about 20 years. I'm not aware of anyone having tried such a cable with DAVE, so it's only a supposition for the time being.

It still doesn’t do what great vinyl can do but I am shocked by the layers of detail and realism.

Vinyl is awful. If BluDave isn't trampling all over it, you have something really wrong in your setup. You should probably sell BluDAVE and invest in a Nakamichi cassette deck as a second source to your vinyl.

Now playing: Phoebe Bridgers - Smoke Signals

 

[minibox]

Vinyl is awful. If BluDave isn't trampling all over it, you have something really wrong in your setup. You should probably sell BluDAVE and invest in a Nakamichi cassette deck as a second source to your vinyl.
I respect your opinion but I challenge you to get out and listen to quality vinyl. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[minibox]

More than one person has commented on the Blu 2 thread that they discovered that USB sounded bad by comparison with CD replay and then spent a lot of effort to get USB to sound as good as CD replay.

I'm not suggesting that CD replay doesn't need help from ferrites. Merely that RF problems encountered with CD replay are far less than those encountered with USB playback via Blu 2.


I'm fairly sure you're wrong in attributing this to Rob and that it's not his current opinion. He is quite categorical now: optical is the reference and USB, at best, can merely equal it.


No, Rob has said that RF is like fungus.


AES and USB are both differential signal standards, though USB has more connections because of the requirement to provide power.

The problem with AES is that pin 1 is often connected to the cable's shield at both ends. This means that RF noise in the source is transmitted into the destination.

A correctly built AES cable has nothing connected to pin 1 at the destination end. I'm pretty sure that such an AES cable will sound vastly better into DAVE because many people have reported that a cable built this way sounds much better into other DACs. These reports go back about 20 years. I'm not aware of anyone having tried such a cable with DAVE, so it's only a supposition for the time being.


Vinyl is awful. If BluDave isn't trampling all over it, you have something really wrong in your setup. You should probably sell BluDAVE and invest in a Nakamichi cassette deck as a second source to your vinyl.

Now playing: Phoebe Bridgers - Smoke Signals

Btw- vinyl is the reference that the blu/dave is aspiring to.

 

[minibox]

More than one person has commented on the Blu 2 thread that they discovered that USB sounded bad by comparison with CD replay and then spent a lot of effort to get USB to sound as good as CD replay.

I'm not suggesting that CD replay doesn't need help from ferrites. Merely that RF problems encountered with CD replay are far less than those encountered with USB playback via Blu 2.


I'm fairly sure you're wrong in attributing this to Rob and that it's not his current opinion. He is quite categorical now: optical is the reference and USB, at best, can merely equal it.


No, Rob has said that RF is like fungus.


AES and USB are both differential signal standards, though USB has more connections because of the requirement to provide power.

The problem with AES is that pin 1 is often connected to the cable's shield at both ends. This means that RF noise in the source is transmitted into the destination.

A correctly built AES cable has nothing connected to pin 1 at the destination end. I'm pretty sure that such an AES cable will sound vastly better into DAVE because many people have reported that a cable built this way sounds much better into other DACs. These reports go back about 20 years. I'm not aware of anyone having tried such a cable with DAVE, so it's only a supposition for the time being.


Vinyl is awful. If BluDave isn't trampling all over it, you have something really wrong in your setup. You should probably sell BluDAVE and invest in a Nakamichi cassette deck as a second source to your vinyl.

Now playing: Phoebe Bridgers - Smoke Signals

I gather you value RW’s opinion so I’ll quote him. It seems he values good vinyl and that’s what got him into digital to analogue conversion. I’ve thanked him through hard earned cash. I know I wouldn’t be enjoying my digital source had it not been for his genius and effort.
“I could not believe how good direct cut LP’s sounded.”
Perhaps Rob should abandon his Davina project since “vinyl (an analog source) is awful.”

 

[tunes]

I gather you value RW’s opinion so I’ll quote him. It seems he values good vinyl and that’s what got him into digital to analogue conversion. I’ve thanked him through hard earned cash. I know I wouldn’t be enjoying my digital source had it not been for his genius and effort.
“I could not believe how good direct cut LP’s sounded.”
Perhaps Rob should abandon his Davina project since “vinyl (an analog source) is awful.”

What is the purpose of changing the phase to pos or neg. Does it affect only speakers or also headphones?

 

[Triode User]

AES and USB are both differential signal standards, though USB has more connections because of the requirement to provide power.

The problem with AES is that pin 1 is often connected to the cable's shield at both ends. This means that RF noise in the source is transmitted into the destination.

A correctly built AES cable has nothing connected to pin 1 at the destination end. I'm pretty sure that such an AES cable will sound vastly better into DAVE because many people have reported that a cable built this way sounds much better into other DACs. These reports go back about 20 years. I'm not aware of anyone having tried such a cable with DAVE, so it's only a supposition for the time being.

What you say is interesting but can you have a go with this into Dave and then report back? I do have a source with aes output but I would have to get or make an aes cable.

 

[doraymon]

While waiting the D-Day (DAVE-Day, tomorrow!) I'm wondering if my SOtM sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra upstream the DAVE would be better used in the "For Sale" section of this forum...
In my previous system they served well in cleaning the USB signal being input to the DAC, but from what I read with the DAVE they would just be another potential source of common mode noise!

Yes, I will do tests and decide with my ears but any "theoretical" comment would be much appreciated.

At least it will help me to kill time until tomorrow!

USB is best; AES EBU is a joke standard, not intended for high data rates, and was simply because studios had XLR's and lots of cable around. Forget about external clocks, they will either make it sound worse (more electronics = more RF noise) or have no effect; the crucial clock is the one located within Dave a few mm away from the pulse array flip-flops.

I guess this answers my question...

 

[flyte3333]

A correctly built AES cable has nothing connected to pin 1 at the destination end.

http://www.rane.com/note110.html

The Absolute Best Right Way To Do It
The method specified by AES48 is to use balanced lines and tie the cable shield to the metal chassis (right where it enters the chassis) at both ends of the cable.

I don't have access to AES docs and wouldn't even understand most of it anyway.

Cable shielding (done well) is a complex thing:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...c-power-cables/?do=findComment&comment=659092

 

[Triode User]

http://www.rane.com/note110.html

The Absolute Best Right Way To Do It
The method specified by AES48 is to use balanced lines and tie the cable shield to the metal chassis (right where it enters the chassis) at both ends of the cable.

I don't have access to AES docs and wouldn't even understand most of it anyway.

Cable shielding (done well) is a complex thing:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...c-power-cables/?do=findComment&comment=659092

I am sorry but my experiments with shielding power cables directly contradict the claim in that link that it has to be grounded at both ends in order to work as a shield.

Whilst on the matter of shields though, some very well known cable manufacturers claim their cables are shielded even though the shield has no ground at all. That is similar to the chocolate teapot.

 

[flyte3333]

I am sorry but my experiments with shielding power cables directly contradict the claim in that link that it has to be grounded at both ends in order to work as a shield.

Whilst on the matter of shields though, some very well known cable manufacturers claim their cables are shielded even though the shield has no ground at all. That is similar to the chocolate teapot.

Yes as per the John Swenson post I also linked, he also shares how the shields don't need to be connected at each end, to be effective

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...er-cables/?page=9&tab=comments#comment-659092

 

[Jawed]

I gather you value RW’s opinion

Yes. You should search for what he's written about what his goal is. It's certainly not the sound of vinyl.

What you say is interesting but can you have a go with this into Dave and then report back? I do have a source with aes output but I would have to get or make an aes cable.

I think my Audio Synthesis transport has an AES output. But it's in storage.

http://www.rane.com/note110.html

The Absolute Best Right Way To Do It
The method specified by AES48 is to use balanced lines and tie the cable shield to the metal chassis (right where it enters the chassis) at both ends of the cable.

It's an excellent page.

The fact that many modern day installers still follow this one-end-only rule with consistent success indicates this and other acceptable solutions to RF issues exist, though the increasing use of digital and wireless technology greatly increases the possibility of future RF problems.

The problem is that modern XLRs in modern hi-fi connect pin 1 to signal 0V. This is why there's so much written about the "pin 1 problem":

http://pin1problem.com/

This page shows why and how this is all such a mess:

http://www.rane.com/note151.html

Now playing: Kiasmos - Lit