[Mython]

So what you are saying is that there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.

Which actually, is true

Mmmm... yes and no.

I'm pointing to the contradictory nature of human perception, in that we tell ourselves the things we perceive are 'real' and therefore amenable to understanding (known knowns, if you like), but they might very well not be real at all. That's the kind of thing scientists and DAC designers generally don't like to contemplate and/or dismiss as nonsense, but I am not one of them.

In this experience of life that I am perceiving, there appears to be a superb DAC by the name of DAVE, and it's design appears to be based upon 'real' understandings by a 'real' person (and a very talented and experienced person, at that), but maybe these things that I'm perceiving are just figments of my imagination that I a may be mistakenly perceiving as 'real'.


....and now back to our scheduled programming (sorry for the OT)

 

[Crgreen]

Question to @Rob Watts and Dave owners who own streamers with dedicated internal clocks.

I have ordered Dave along with an Aurender N10.

The main point is, should I connect them with USB or AES (with oxco clock from N10)?

Is the internal clock inside the Dave superior to OXCO inside N10? Has anyone compared Dave sound with or without using external clocked signal from a streamer ?

This will help me decide investing on the cable while waiting for delivery of both.

Thanks

My advise is to use an Iso Regen powered by an LPS 1.2 battery power supply betwixt the two. As has been pointed out, the battery supply gives the best USB signal into Dave.

 

[Emerald Core]

My advise is to use an Iso Regen powered by an LPS 1.2 battery power supply betwixt the two. As has been pointed out, the battery supply gives the best USB signal into Dave.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep a budget for this usb setup. But I really want to know if AES has any benefits if used with OXCO enabled streamer. I will obviously use tidal HiFi and qobuz to listen to music.

 

[doraymon]

While waiting the D-Day (DAVE-Day, tomorrow!) I'm wondering if my SOtM sMS-200ultra and tX-USBultra upstream the DAVE would be better used in the "For Sale" section of this forum...
In my previous system they served well in cleaning the USB signal being input to the DAC, but from what I read with the DAVE they would just be another potential source of common mode noise!

Yes, I will do tests and decide with my ears but any "theoretical" comment would be much appreciated.

At least it will help me to kill time until tomorrow!

 

[jonstatt]

V. exciting I am sure....

One reads about rumors of case work issues with black, etc., but my experience has been that such talk were rumors only and the lead times were accurately provided with a slight bit of slack.

The 12 wk wait (10.5 actually) for Blu2 was trying, but hey, I know someone who waited much longer for a Lampi Pacific -- and the wait meaningfully exceeded the initial estimate.... Though those have a ton of customization options so ea unit is made-to-order.

Case work issues were not a rumour for Blu 2. I have it in writing from Mitch at Chord. This resulted in a backlog. Mine took 14 weeks. They have a VERY strict first come first served policy but apparently some get fed up with the wait and cancel and this has effectively allowed some to queue jump. Good luck for them.....waiting 14 weeks was crazy.

 

[Rob Watts]

Question to @Rob Watts and Dave owners who own streamers with dedicated internal clocks.

I have ordered Dave along with an Aurender N10.

The main point is, should I connect them with USB or AES (with oxco clock from N10)?

Is the internal clock inside the Dave superior to OXCO inside N10? Has anyone compared Dave sound with or without using external clocked signal from a streamer ?

This will help me decide investing on the cable while waiting for delivery of both.

Thanks

USB is best; AES EBU is a joke standard, not intended for high data rates, and was simply because studios had XLR's and lots of cable around. Forget about external clocks, they will either make it sound worse (more electronics = more RF noise) or have no effect; the crucial clock is the one located within Dave a few mm away from the pulse array flip-flops.

I prefer to use my own ears, and anyway, Rob’s aren’t available.

I am kind of attached to my ears!

 

[Thenewguy007]

USB is best; AES EBU is a joke standard, not intended for high data rates, and was simply because studios had XLR's and lots of cable around. Forget about external clocks, they will either make it sound worse (more electronics = more RF noise) or have no effect; the crucial clock is the one located within Dave a few mm away from the pulse array flip-flops.



I am kind of attached to my ears!

Interesting.

I've never heard anyone prefer the USB (even with galvanic isolation) over a AES/EBU cable on any other DAC in all my time here.

 

[jacc]

Question to @Rob Watts and Dave owners who own streamers with dedicated internal clocks.

I have ordered Dave along with an Aurender N10.

The main point is, should I connect them with USB or AES (with oxco clock from N10)?

Is the internal clock inside the Dave superior to OXCO inside N10? Has anyone compared Dave sound with or without using external clocked signal from a streamer ?

This will help me decide investing on the cable while waiting for delivery of both.

Thanks

I vote for USB too. I think DAVE's best input should be USB or optical though N10 sounds better with bnc and/or AES. In my case USB has higher resolution and more depth than AES.

 

[Thenewguy007]

I vote for USB too. I think DAVE's best input should be USB or optical though N10 sounds better with bnc and/or AES. In my case USB has higher resolution and more depth than AES.

Are your cables matched? Meaning same length, same conductors, same gauge, same plug materials?
If you have well shielded silver UPOCC large gauge AES cable with rhodium over silver connections vs. a standard USB cable, I would think the AES will easily win.

 

[Triode User]

Are your cables matched? Meaning same length, same conductors, same gauge, same plug materials?
If you have well shielded silver UPOCC large gauge AES cable with rhodium over silver connections vs. a standard USB cable, I would think the AES will easily win.

Well, you might know better than Rob Watts but even in a YMMV situation I think I would go for USB rather than AES into Dave. I doubt that the cables themselves would tilt the balance in favour of AES but it would be interesting to get your feedback.

 

[Thenewguy007]

Well, you might know better than Rob Watts but even in a YMMV situation I think I would go for USB rather than AES into Dave. I doubt that the cables themselves would tilt the balance in favour of AES but it would be interesting to get your feedback.

I never even implied that Rob was wrong, where did you even get that from?
I just said other people always rate the USB the worse, though that's always from different equipment.

 

[Emerald Core]

@Rob Watts interesting to know that usb is superior to AES from a one boxed streamer like the most praised N10. I read somewhere in forum that Chord Dacs are immune to jitter. Although it is reported that OXCO internal clock inside N10 that is linked to it's Coax and AES output proved to sound better than the (unclocked) USB out.


Thanks and I will keep it in consideration.

 

[elviscaprice]

@Rob Watts interesting to know that usb is superior to AES from a one boxed streamer like the most praised N10. I read somewhere in forum that Chord Dacs are immune to jitter. Although it is reported that OXCO internal clock inside N10 that is linked to it's Coax and AES output proved to sound better than the (unclocked) USB out.


Thanks and I will keep it in consideration.

Best you test and listen yourself. All that matters is how it sounds to you. In my experience, upgraded clocks/power in the server equates to better SQ, regardless of DAC clocking (a different matter). Adding extra fixers, like ISO Regen, can be hit or miss depending on the damage already done upstream from poor clocking/power. Best to address the source instead of applying fixers. Keep the path to the DAC as short as possible. KISS

 

[minibox]

Just an update on my blu/dave combo. One of the stock bnc cords was faulty and the dual bnc connection dropped repeatedly. I tried 2 ferrites on each end of the bad cable but to no avail. In fact, the connection actually became worse. I ordered two of these guys from Amazon and they worked with no problem. 3 Foot HD-SDI 3G/6G RG6 BNC to BNC Video Coaxial Cable (75 Ohm) Purple 4.5Ghz Made in the USA by Custom Cable Connection https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074RK2RDD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_Y8J2AbDFXPHVS
After listening with them in place for about a week I swapped out some power cords to see if I could achieve a different synergy. I was already very pleased with the sound but wanted to do some experimenting. Previously, I had both the dave and blu2 powered with Shunyata sidewinder vtx into a shunyata Denali pc. I thought I’d experiment with a much cheaper cable and hooked up 2 of the Pangea ac-14se’s. I was extremely surprised and pleased with the results. For the $, the new Pangea’s are phenomenal. Images became even more focused, while increasing in depth and width. It still doesn’t do what great vinyl can do but I am shocked by the layers of detail and realism. I never thought digital could sound this good. My current digital source is an aurender n100 but at some point I might strongly consider the sotm trifecta. Research leads me to believe it might clean up the signal a bit, but I think at this point the margins for improvement are minuscule. The blu/dave is one of (if not the most) significant upgrades I’ve ever made.

 

[marcmccalmont]

Just an update on my blu/dave combo. One of the stock bnc cords was faulty and the dual bnc connection dropped repeatedly. I tried 2 ferrites on each end of the bad cable but to no avail. In fact, the connection actually became worse. I ordered two of these guys from Amazon and they worked with no problem. 3 Foot HD-SDI 3G/6G RG6 BNC to BNC Video Coaxial Cable (75 Ohm) Purple 4.5Ghz Made in the USA by Custom Cable Connection https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074RK2RDD/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_Y8J2AbDFXPHVS
After listening with them in place for about a week I swapped out some power cords to see if I could achieve a different synergy. I was already very pleased with the sound but wanted to do some experimenting. Previously, I had both the dave and blu2 powered with Shunyata sidewinder vtx into a shunyata Denali pc. I thought I’d experiment with a much cheaper cable and hooked up 2 of the Pangea ac-14se’s. I was extremely surprised and pleased with the results. For the $, the new Pangea’s are phenomenal. Images became even more focused, while increasing in depth and width. It still doesn’t do what great vinyl can do but I am shocked by the layers of detail and realism. I never thought digital could sound this good. My current digital source is an aurender n100 but at some point I might strongly consider the sotm trifecta. Research leads me to believe it might clean up the signal a bit, but I think at this point the margins for improvement are minuscule. The blu/dave is one of (if not the most) significant upgrades I’ve ever made.

It’s nice to see people trying the Pangea’s and hearing positive results!