[paulchiu]

   
Sad, but true!

Let's hope we won't become too elitist with our DAVEs – possibly the best digital source and headphone amp on the planet to date!

 
I think you and others here are very much regular guys.  Thanks for all the help.  My black and black with 6.7 inch tall chrome legged Dave is on order.  As for the best DAC, I will so looking forwards to running it alongside the Nagra HD DAC.

 

[JaZZ]

 

  Sad, but true!

Let's hope we won't become too elitist with our DAVEs – possibly the best digital source and headphone amp on the planet to date!

 
I think you and others here are very much regular guys.  Thanks for all the help.  My black and black with 6.7 inch tall chrome legged Dave is on order.  As for the best DAC, I will so looking forwards to running it alongside the Nagra HD DAC.

 
That will be an interesting comparison.

 

[TheAttorney]

That would indeed be an interesting comparison, but have I missed something paulchiu? Are you aiming to keep both Nagra and DAVE?

 

[paulchiu]

  That would indeed be an interesting comparison, but have I missed something paulchiu? Are you aiming to keep both Nagra and DAVE?

 
Yes sir, the Nagra has a rich tube sound, dreamy for female vocals.
I think the Dave will sound more to my taste in rock and techno.
 
Paul

 

[Jawed]

Actually it's strange that FM radio never suffered from the sterile sound attributed to digital recordings, despite being dependent on a very similar steep low-pass filter for suppressing the pilot tones carrying the two stereo channels. And I'm rather sure that the FM technology produces a lot of modulation noise as well. I've always suspected the reason for the warmth of FM sound (as opposed to the coldness of – particularly early – digital recordings) might be that these components – filter resonance and modulation noise – are masked by a generally high level of harmonic distortion. Whereas the «clean» digital recordings make these shortcomings blatantly obvious.

This fascinating page puts a whole new perspective on UK FM:

BBC PCM and NICAM History

During the 1960s engineers at the BBC carried out research into the application of digital methods to audio and video. Experimental systems were tried out and a number of BBC research reports were published showing progress. On the 14th of September 1972 the link from Broadcasting House to the Wrotham transmitter switched to the new BBC PCM (Pulse Code Modulation) system.

Each PCM channel was based on sampling the input analogue audio waveform at 32k samples/sec and generated 13-bit LPCM (Linear PCM) sample values. The sampling was dithered to suppress quantisation effects. The input to each analogue-to-digital convertor (ADC) was low-pass filtered to reject audio frequencies above 15kHz.

NICAM: Near Instantaneously Companded Audio Multiplex:

This produces a sort of ‘modulation noise’ which is typically around 55dB below the speech or music. The effect is low enough not to be particularly audible, but can be noticed. However extensive tests by the BBC showed that the audible impact of this was slight. Indeed, given how enthusiastic audio fans tend to be today about FM radio, four decades later, this judgement seems to be well justified by experience!

And most people still think of FM radio as ‘analogue’...

 

[TheAttorney]

Yes sir, the Nagra has a rich tube sound, dreamy for female vocals.
I think the Dave will sound more to my taste in rock and techno.

 
Wow, a different expensive DAC to be used for different music types. That is true dedication to the high end! 

 
Anyway, I think you'll find that DAVE is pretty damn fine on female vocals too.
For the Nagra HD to earn its keep (at twice the price of DAVE), I would hope it would add something much more fundamental than a bit of tube warmth, but hopefully you'll let us know in due course.
 
BTW, on an earlier topic, I now find that the Absolute Phase (or more accurately Absolute Polarity?) switch is the most used "button" on both Y and DAVE. Once I've latched on to the subtle-but-significant change it can make to most of my albums, my OCD tendencies mean that I now have to check this for each album I play. Which leads to my open question on DAVE's operation: Is there a way to directly switch this option on either the main unit or on the remote control?  In either case, I find I need to press at least 2 buttons (one to highlight the option, and another to switch it).
 
I really like DAVE's "Cyclops" display, but two enhancement requests would be to have a dedicated button on the main unit for Absolute Polarity and a second dedicated button for Standby (currently Standby is the only reason why I'm forced to use the remote control).   

 

[STR-1]

As Romaz namned earlier you can use the Sonic Orbiter SE with Roon. Works really well even for me. If you don´t mind to have an extra core-computer running that could be a good solution - as good sounding as Aurender etc. You can choose a good LPS (or Anker-battery) and good cables if you want to try out if that affects the sound.

Hi STR-1
Have a look at the bluesound range,the bluesound vault 2 might be what your looking for,it's got a 2tb hard drive,it can rip cds,download hi res,and stream,you can do it all from your i pad,its fairly cheap, about £1000

As Romaz namned earlier you can use the Sonic Orbiter SE with Roon. Works really well even for me. If you don´t mind to have an extra core-computer running that could be a good solution - as good sounding as Aurender etc. You can choose a good LPS (or Anker-battery) and good cables if you want to try out if that affects the sound.

Except you can't connect the Bluesound Vault 2 via USB to Chord DAVE. But then you can just use Toslink. I looked into this before because my friend who will inherit my QBD76HDSD already owns a Bluesound Vault 2. He was also going to inherit a Toslink cable from me but I'll have to give him a digital coaxial RCA-BNC because I end up using that Toslink cable to isolate my video system mostly from my audio system. For those who cared, I'm using the Toslink between the Oppo and the miniDSP. I'm amazed by the increased depth and smoothness and timbre I get from watching movies. Force Awakens Lightsaber fight scene had these subtle sounds coming from the lightsabers that I never heard before. I'm actually surprised Chord has not built an A/V processor based on Mojo/DAVE technology. 

Thanks for the replies guys and sorry for the delay in acknowledging.

 

[rkt31]

any more comparisons of dave with other DACs or reviews of dave ?

 

[bacon333]

any more comparisons of dave with other DACs or reviews of dave ?

 
Project EvaD - Evaluation DAVE is almost complete.
 
https://audiobacon.net/2016/04/15/chord-dave-review-project-evad-evaluation-dave/
 
Nearly a month long process...I'm finishing up the last section. I still need to do some touching up but if you're interested in how it compares to the MSB Analog, Chord Hugo TT, Lumin S1, and Berkeley Alpha Reference it's worth a read (especially the "Raw Notes" for the Berkeley). 

 

[shuttlepod]

Hey Mr. Bacon333--
 
Very insightful and thorough review! Your hard work (if you can call it work) is appreciated. I am grateful for the comparison with the Berkeley, as I have wondered in my mind how it might stack up with the DAVE (realizing that your views are yours alone). I'll go back and read this more thoroughly when I have more time, but I like your detailed description of the various set-ups and think that the inclusion of your "raw notes" is a nice touch -- why haven't other folks thought of this? (Maybe they have and I've missed them.) 
 
Totally agree with you on the importance of power. I didn't do my own "dirty" vs. "clean" power comparisons as I became convinced long ago that clean power makes a big difference and once Rob opined that he thought it would make a difference, that was enough for me to simply use my existing power setup (see profile for more detail). 
 
Once again, bravo on your review and I look forward to the finished product.

 

[shuttlepod]

Bacon:
 
With regard to the harsh treble glare you found with the DAVE, I would try listening to the DAVE with different headphones or speakers and/or different headphone cables. I did not find this to be the case with either my speaker system or with the HE1000 using a Purist Audio Design Impresa cable. Indeed, I found that the DAVE sounded smoother in the treble than other dacs and actually helped tame recordings that previously sounded harsh. 

 

[Kamil21]

Bacon:

With regard to the harsh treble glare you found with the DAVE, I would try listening to the DAVE with different headphones or speakers and/or different headphone cables. I did not find this to be the case with either my speaker system or with the HE1000 using a Purist Audio Design Impresa cable. Indeed, I found that the DAVE sounded smoother in the treble than other dacs and actually helped tame recordings that previously sounded harsh. 

Is the harshness only on vocals on multi track recordings?

This could well be the choice of vocal microphone used in the studio as it seems that the harshness is only for some recordings. It would not be a surprise that many studios use the same range of microphones to record vocals.

 

[JaZZ]

 

any more comparisons of dave with other DACs or reviews of dave ?

 
Project EvaD - Evaluation DAVE is almost complete.
 
https://audiobacon.net/2016/04/15/chord-dave-review-project-evad-evaluation-dave/
 
Nearly a month long process...I'm finishing up the last section. I still need to do some touching up but if you're interested in how it compares to the MSB Analog, Chord Hugo TT, Lumin S1, and Berkeley Alpha Reference it's worth a read (especially the "Raw Notes" for the Berkeley). 

 
An incredibly thorough review! I have one question (pardon my ignorance): What's a «digital power cable/cord»? Is there simply meant a power cord for a digital source?

 

[shuttlepod]

Bacon:
 
A couple comments on your setups for evaluating the various dacs:
 
I see that you used a cheap, non-audiophile USB cord with DAVE but used audiophile USB cords with the other dacs. I also see that you used a W4S Recovery (USB reclocker), as well as a linear power supply, for the Berkeley and Chord Hugo TT setups. You avoided using any USB "band aids" or LPS with the DAVE. Thus, you were taking Rob Watts at his word regarding source immunity by providing DAVE with a "dirty" USB signal from a "dirty" computer. All the more impressive that you generally found DAVE to be superior. It will be interesting to read your findings regarding source immunity when you publish these. 
 
Perhaps more importantly, I see that you used the Simaudio Moon Neo 430HA headphone amp with the DAVE when comparing dacs, rather than DAVE's headphone out. I find this a little surprising, as I would guess that most DAVE users would be using DAVE's headphone out (and the TT's headphone out, for that matter). I suppose you wanted a level playing field? I don't know if you still have the Berkeley and DAVE in house, but I would be interested in a direct comparison of these dacs when using DAVE's headphone out. 
 
We can extrapolate from your finding, however, in the headphone amp comparison part of your review, that DAVE's headphone out is superior to the 430HA. That finding strongly suggests that DAVE would have an even greater edge over the Berkeley when the DAVE's headphone out is used.

 

[rgs9200m]

Yep, I found the AQ Diamond usb cable made a huge difference on my TT (and even on my Hugo before this). It really gives more "rounded" images, more transparent tighter faster bass, and more liquid highs. I consider it a necessity.
I also really like Shunyata power cords, like my old Shunyata Alpha Helix on my amp that I use with my TT.