[Reactcore]

Any DSP done by Roon RUINS or DESTROYS the soundstage and music enjoyment in my system.

Thats why i mostly only listen to (preferably self) ripped RBCD's. Using Wasapi with F2K or Jriver.. all DSP including volume attenuation off.

 

[801evan]

It is absolutely nothing like the PGGB files I heard early on. IMHO PGGB is very much the wrong approach, and when I heard the test files I said they sound like apodizing filters, which seriously damage transient time reconstruction. Problem is some like the soft bloated bass from apodizing, as they prefer the timing problems. And when the website went live they claimed it was an apodizing filter. It doesn't matter if it's 10 taps or 10 billion taps - apodizing is the wrong approach.

Man. This is the best thing I've read all week and explains the sonic issues of PGGB. PGGB sonic issues does remind me of the apodizing filter on Topping DACs.

 

[LucyWu]

Man. This is the best thing I've read all week and explains the sonic issues of PGGB. PGGB sonic issues does remind me of the apodizing filter on Topping DACs.

I don't want to crap on this Chord thread but PGGB files into my Dave sound nothing as described here.

 

[miketlse]

I don't want to crap on this Chord thread but PGGB files into my Dave sound nothing as described here.

Feel free to use this forum instead. It was created by @musickid for just that type of 'not official chord but interesting to chord owners' discussions.

 

[801evan]

I don't want to crap on this Chord thread but PGGB files into my Dave sound nothing as described here.

Hmm. Consider getting a AOC USB cable like from mobix labs and have it before an src dx. It's one of the best things that make A/Bing a whole lot easier and making the right choice. You need pair it with an ultrashort like an Uptone USPCB (200hours break in). Add an ifi idefender on the upstream. It makes comparison on how HMS is much more deeper than what PGGB or HQplayer provides and makes more obvious the timing, soundstage and timbre issues of PGGB.

 

[LucyWu]

Hmm. Consider getting a AOC USB cable like from mobix labs and have it before an src dx. It's one of the best things that make A/Bing a whole lot easier and making the right choice. You need pair it with an ultrashort like an Uptone USPCB (200hours break in). Add an ifi idefender on the upstream. It makes comparison on how HMS is much more deeper than what PGGB or HQplayer provides and makes more obvious the timing, soundstage and timbre issues of PGGB.

Hmmmm - patronising, aren't we.. I disagree wiith your worldview so I must be an ingenue who needs to have his view corrected. Sorry - no.

I use the SRC.DX - necessary because it yields better results than the inbuilt Dave USB. I use (admittedly only recently purchased) a Sablon Evo USB cable, I have an optimised pc transport with linear supplies, and many years of experience gained in big grown up recording studios to educate my ears well enough to evaluate what I hear. And I have a clear view of what I am aiming for in my little replay system.

That leads me to conclude that your expectations and experiences differ significantly from mine. That's fine, I hope your approach makes you happy. But for me, my aproach brings me closer to the music, which is what this is about. Rob's published views differ from my own in some areas, but I don't think he'll be along with a list of things I need to buy to align my experience with his.

Rob shares his time and experience. You share yours and I share mine - that's what this community is for. We don't need to agree, but I don't need you to tell me what I do and don't need to do.

 

[801evan]

Hmmmm - patronising, aren't we.. I disagree wiith your worldview so I must be an ingenue who needs to have his view corrected. Sorry - no.

I use the SRC.DX - necessary because it yields better results than the inbuilt Dave USB. I use (admittedly only recently purchased) a Sablon Evo USB cable, I have an optimised pc transport with linear supplies, and many years of experience gained in big grown up recording studios to educate my ears well enough to evaluate what I hear. And I have a clear view of what I am aiming for in my little replay system.

That leads me to conclude that your expectations and experiences differ significantly from mine. That's fine, I hope your approach makes you happy. But for me, my aproach brings me closer to the music, which is what this is about. Rob's published views differ from my own in some areas, but I don't think he'll be along with a list of things I need to buy to align my experience with his.

Rob shares his time and experience. You share yours and I share mine - that's what this community is for. We don't need to agree, but I don't need you to tell me what I do and don't need to do.

Its fine if you find it patronizing, but that's not my intention. AOC USB cables help cut down the noise a lot where any traditional USB cables can't because it uses optical fiber on the data lines. It's as simple as that. My setup already gives PGGB, HQplayer the edge because MQA, Hi-Res and CD playback sound better than having HMS in the chain. However, PGGB and HQplayer still can't get ahead of HMS despite this when used on the same streamer, and what's telltale is that the rest of the setup gives a deeper sound. PGGB is still lifted in the blacks yet loose on the bass, exactly as Rob Watts said. And yes, the timing, flow and timbre is oddly off on the PGGB files. Point being, its harder to hear the lower distortion and deeper presentation of HMS, MQA and such if there's something in the chain that is noisy.

Anyways, no one has put it in the perspective Rob Watts gave that's why I appreciated it highly and one can consider my posts as sharing and comparing to their setup. Because it is indeed rare to see people not like PGGB and I couldn't find an explanation of whats going on if PGGB happens to sound worse.

 

[skootb]

i haven't followed every post...why does this thread seem to say the xlr output of the dave is "inferior?"

 

[801evan]

i haven't followed every post...why does this thread seem to say the xlr output of the dave is "inferior?"

Simply because it's not a true balanced architecture. It just has an op amp doing invert polarity.

 

[SteveHulk]

I think "balancing" is an analogue concept which is an effort to reduce the effect of external noise entering an analogue audio chain.

The basic idea is splitting an analogue signal into two signals and inverting one signal with respect to the other before transmission. If noise happens on the transmission line (interconnect) then both the signals are modified by the noise in the same way.

At the receiving end the inverted signal is inverted again and then added to the other non-inverted signal.

In this way the noise is combined with an inverted version of itself and so the two noise waveforms tend to cancel each other out. The two signals are now back in the same phase and reinforce each other. They do not cancel out.

In a fully balanced system you need not only separate processing for left and right as usual, but also for inverted and non-inverted in each case.

Now you have four independent chains in the system between the source, where the splitting first occurs to the power amp outputs where the inverted and non-inverted signals obviously have to be recombined.

Remember that this is a purely analogue system so far.

If there is a digital link in the chain, such as a DAC, then it would have to have four channels with four independent DAC processors.

If such a device is hit by noise then it is by no means obvious to me that the effect on the four signals will result in the simple effect on which the idea of analogue balancing rests.

Therefore the balanced input of the DAVE must recombine the signals before processing, and the balanced output of the DAVE must split them again. The inverting op amps are simply the way this is done.

The only benefit of balancing here is that the input cable is balanced. Even though it carries a digital signal, for the purposes of balancing it can be successfully treated as an analogue signal. I do not think the DAVE itself can be sensibly balanced.

If this is a load of then by all means have at it. Just try to be polite!

 

[Reactcore]

i haven't followed every post...why does this thread seem to say the xlr output of the dave is "inferior?"

To add to @801evan..
As Rob explained with adding of the negative polarity opamp for XLR the signal passes through extra circuitry loosing a tiny bit of transparency.

But some specially balanced built amps perform significantly better using balanced input than using their single ended input and this then outweights the transparency benefit on those particular units

 

[BassicScience]

My Favorite Article Explaining Balanced, Differential, Etc.

There are highlighted "Take-home Messages" for those not interested in reading the entire text.

 

[muski]

Mine arrived today. Any suggestions on how best to use it? Would you mind posting a photo of your wrapping technique? Thanks!

 

[801evan]

Mine arrived today. Any suggestions on how best to use it? Would you mind posting a photo of your wrapping technique? Thanks!

I just plop it down with the way it was folded from the package. I was supposed to build a faraday cage around my listening area but I haven't made the fence yet so I'm doing it this way for now.

 

[muski]

I just plop it down with the way it was folded from the package. I was supposed to build a faraday cage around my listening area but I haven't made the fence yet so I'm doing it this way for now.

Thanks!