[thePhones]

I think the feeling that Dave can not drive some headphone well or dynamic enough is coming from the impression of a total lack of distortion in the bass (except you really mean the headphones are too quiet).
The first time I went from Hugo 2 to Dave, I felt it has lost some drive/weight in the signature. But after some time I noticed that it just separates everything better and cleaner with more nuance to every note. Now when I go back to Hugo 2 I don‘t feel like it has more bass anymore, just not as well separated, I even think the Dave has more bass now.
I like to use the analogy of going from very salty and fat burger (which has some kick to it, no doubt) to haute cuisine. The first time you try it it‘s lacking taste, but after some time you notice it has a lot more flavoures to it than the hefty burger.
If you still like Burger more after that experience you are not wrong but it is not because the french food did not have enough flavoures.

 

[adrianm]

Stealth with Dave would be an ear damaging 100dB SPL - some 8dB more than Susvara.

I'm not sure if an anemic 100db could really damage your ears .

 

[jlbrach]

You might wanna see they don't keep stock.

might be because it costs 15k and there is a limited audience for such an expensive amp but obviously since it was designed for optimal performance by hifiman and it is worlds more powerful than the dave they have a different thought process than you do...I love my dave I love my susvara..I use a bakoon 13r with it and it is worlds better

 

[jlbrach]

Dave HP out is rated at .5A

Ifi HP calculator with susvara and Diablo low gain SE selected shows that at .06A max output, it can still drive the Susvara at 102dB.

do you not realize that to deal with dynamic peaks etc having enough power to make them work isnt ideal?....if a person spends the money for a susvara and dave they will be forced to buy an amp or sell the dave or susvara...

 

[Rob Watts]

I'm not sure if an anemic 100db could really damage your ears .

Take a look at this. Hearing loss at 100dB SPL within 15 minutes. Even listening at 80 dB will give hearing loss after 2 hours.

The UK legal limit for noise is 80dB for 8 hours; for music events it's supposed to be no more than 95db (but this of course is never enforced). If you expose yourself to more than 80dB for long periods you will suffer long term hearing loss. For a music lover your hearing ability is crucial, so download a sound level meter onto your phone, and checkout how loud you are actually listening at; and if you want to preserve your hearing, listen for long periods below 80dB.

 

[Triode User]

Take a look at this. Hearing loss at 100dB SPL within 15 minutes. Even listening at 80 dB will give hearing loss after 2 hours.

The UK legal limit for noise is 80dB for 8 hours; for music events it's supposed to be no more than 95db (but this of course is never enforced). If you expose yourself to more than 80dB for long periods you will suffer long term hearing loss. For a music lover your hearing ability is crucial, so download a sound level meter onto your phone, and checkout how loud you are actually listening at; and if you want to preserve your hearing, listen below 80dB.

Rob, very good advice (I was going to say very sound advice but I could already hear the groans from the cheap seats).

However it might be my default setting of always looking for humour if it was intended by the poster but my guess is that @adrianm had his tongue very firmly in his cheek when he referred to an anemic 100dB. I hope so anyway!

 

[TheAttorney]

As has been stated many times on many threads, it's not just about the calculated power matching - i.e. how loud the headphones can go before the amp clips.
It's also about the quality of power at any point before clipping starts. And one factor affecting the quality of power is ICD (Instantaneous Current Delivery) i.e. whether the amp can deliver the full current IN AN INSTANT to 100% match the INSTANT transients in the music. And keep repeating that ICD across a series of transients.

IMO the reason why some Susvara owners choose large loudspeaker amps is that it's obviously much easier to achieve ICD if the amp has a massive power supply with massive reserves of power. But there's no reason a carefully designed low powered amp can't also achieve ICD if that's what designer sets out to do. There are probably other factors as well - I just use ICD as an example to stop people unhelpfully debating over-simplified power calculations that is not the real issue in question.

As it happens, I'm perfectly happy with the way DAVE drives my HEKse's. Glorious sound. And if one day I should consider a Susvara, it won't be with a giant loudspeaker amp, but there are a number of dedicated headphone amps of various power that allegedly sound great with the Susvara.

 

[adrianm]

Take a look at this. Hearing loss at 100dB SPL within 15 minutes. Even listening at 80 dB will give hearing loss after 2 hours.

The UK legal limit for noise is 80dB for 8 hours; for music events it's supposed to be no more than 95db (but this of course is never enforced). If you expose yourself to more than 80dB for long periods you will suffer long term hearing loss. For a music lover your hearing ability is crucial, so download a sound level meter onto your phone, and checkout how loud you are actually listening at; and if you want to preserve your hearing, listen for long periods below 80dB.

Appreciate you taking the time to explain, my Dave is usually at -36 to -42 db depending on the track, peaks are usually at 70-75 db (i do use a phone app to measure for every new headphone i test).

However it might be my default setting of always looking for humour if it was intended by the poster but my guess is that @adrianm had his tongue very firmly in his cheek when he referred to an anemic 100dB. I hope so anyway!

It was definitely a dig at the power hungry audiophiles I'm still pretty torn on what to believe myself on this topic. I know some people disagree with Rob about Dave's power output being enough (even though Watts is literally his last name ) , and one might chalk that up to " he's a dac designer protecting his product ", but Dan Clark also he said 0.4W(if i remember correctly) would be enough for Stealth to perform optimally, while stating he thinks Dave is too analytical and enjoys the warmth of tube amps.
Since he's literally the guy who designed the headphones, there should be a more scientific rebuttal to these claims than "it sounds anemic" imo.

 

[Jawed]

A phone dB meter can easily be wrong by 20 or 30dB. Different apps on your phone will produce different readings.

Additionally, the phone likely hard-clips the SPL that can be measured. My current phone hard limits at about 72dB according to one app. I have a microphone I use with REW (Umik USB) but it's been a while since I compared the phone and the Umik. My phone used to hard limit at a higher number with the same app. I don't trust the number it shows.

dBA or dBC SPL weighting is another factor. Mainly, these two give very different readings for bass:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-dba-spl.htm

 

[Ciggavelli]

So, I tried my TCs out of my DAVE with the DC4. Oh my, the DAVE actually drives them very well now with the new PSU. I had no idea that the DC4 power supply made the headphone output in the front much stronger. The DAVE is now going to be my go to solid state. I'm kinda floored that this has happened

 

[801evan]

So, I tried my TCs out of my DAVE with the DC4. Oh my, the DAVE actually drives them very well now with the new PSU. I had no idea that the DC4 power supply made the headphone output in the front much stronger. The DAVE is now going to be my go to solid state. I'm kinda floored that this has happened

Finally some heat getting off me. Cheers man. You didn't bother trying it before or maybe it's the long break in period?

 

[Ciggavelli]

Finally some heat getting off me. Cheers man. You didn't bother trying it before or maybe it's the long break in period?

I did try it before prior to the DC4, and I was not happy with the volume and bass. I had assumed that the DC4 wouldn't change that, so I never tried it, embarrassingly. You actually made me try it with the Susvara, and I was surprised that the DAVE drove them so high (I still prefer the bass out of my wa33 though). So, today I tried the TCs and I'm amazed. This is a new chapter in my setup.

Those with the DC4, try out your harder to drive headphones with the DAVE now.

 

[ra990]

Finally some heat getting off me. Cheers man. You didn't bother trying it before or maybe it's the long break in period?

How much did you bribe @Ciggavelli with to post that?

 

[801evan]

I did try it before prior to the DC4, and I was not happy with the volume and bass. I had assumed that the DC4 wouldn't change that, so I never tried it, embarrassingly. You actually made me try it with the Susvara, and I was surprised that the DAVE drove them so high (I still prefer the bass out of my wa33 though). So, today I tried the TCs and I'm amazed. This is a new chapter in my setup.

Those with the DC4, try out your harder to drive headphones with the DAVE now.

Oh yea. Exactly. The clue in what I said was I admit the Dave + susvara is unlistenable straight to the wall but behind a line conditioner it's ace.

 

[801evan]

How much did you bribe @Ciggavelli with to post that?

How much do u want too? I made a killing in btc and Solana.