[TheAttorney]

I've noticed consistently that the Dave needs 24 hours minimum warm up time. The other indicator is it should be warm enough where hovering my hand above the chassis , I should feel the heat wave. If it's a bit under, Susvara can sound peaky and strident. It's something worth mentioning when doing meets to compensate for a cold Dave.

A number of people (Rob included) have said in the past that DAVE requires no warm-up time (or even burn-in time). I've found this not to be the case.
All my hifi is put into standby overnight. From "cold" immediately after standby, I find that DAVE sounds a touch dark, which helpfully hides a multitude of HF sins, which is not unpleasant, but it also hides a level of fine detail. Over the next hour it swings into a slight over-brightness and then gradually settles down. There are other variables when listening over a long period, but I'm satisfied that I can hear no further improvement after around 5-8 hours. This effect is more subtle than other hifi components I've owned, but it's enough IMO to unbalance a well-balanced system.

Regarding listening levels on my DAVE > HEKse, this is set between -40 to -42dB for most modern recordings. Max of -43dB for the loudest ones, and min of about -30dB for the quietest classical recordings. I've measured this with a soundmeter to be in the 70 to 75dB range at my ears. At meets, I cringe when I see how loud some others set their listening levels. I politely say something like "Wow, that's much louder than I'm used to". When what I really mean is "You are a recklessly stupid fool. You should be old enough now to know that this will eventually permanently damage your hearing". Anyway, I agree with the comments that listening volume is a big factor in peoples' differing reactions to the same hifi equipment.

 

[801evan]

Yea on a cold start the susvara sounds undynamic,slow and small sounstage. Around 4 hours it's a bit bright/airy.

 

[Triode User]

A number of people (Rob included) have said in the past that DAVE requires no warm-up time (or even burn-in time). I've found this not to be the case.
All my hifi is put into standby overnight. From "cold" immediately after standby, I find that DAVE sounds a touch dark, which helpfully hides a multitude of HF sins, which is not unpleasant, but it also hides a level of fine detail. Over the next hour it swings into a slight over-brightness and then gradually settles down. There are other variables when listening over a long period, but I'm satisfied that I can hear no further improvement after around 5-8 hours. This effect is more subtle than other hifi components I've owned, but it's enough IMO to unbalance a well-balanced system.

I will not have noticed this because I have my Dave fully powered up 24/7.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Did you know to drive a headphone or any driver you need current and voltage. Voltage is plenty with dave and current is decided by output impedance. Lower the output impedance more current it is able to supply on demand. And I don't need to tell about the output impedance of dave. In fact as rob watts say dave drives your headphones correctly because of extremely low output impedance. It is not affected by the passages requiring more current for which impedance dips. What more planars don't have variable impedance anyway. So it's a myth that dave doesn't drive susvara or any other planar. Since headphone are driven correctly so they sound fast and lean to which some people think not properly driven.

It's already been said that Rob Watts has said it doesn't drive the Susvara properly. I really don't understand the stubbornness on this topic. If you try them with and without a dedicated amp it is clearly underpowered. If people like listening to their gear sub-optimally, I guess that's fine. But again, just seems like quite a waste of money.

 

[801evan]

Dave HP out is rated at .5A

Ifi HP calculator with susvara and Diablo low gain SE selected shows that at .06A max output, it can still drive the Susvara at 102dB.

 

[genefruit]

It's already been said that Rob Watts has said it doesn't drive the Susvara properly. I really don't understand the stubbornness on this topic. If you try them with and without a dedicated amp it is clearly underpowered. If people like listening to their gear sub-optimally, I guess that's fine. But again, just seems like quite a waste of money.

I've searched both the site and the web for Rob Watts + Susvara with no relevant response. @Rob Watts I believe it would be helpful to have your response to this discussion?

 

[adrianm]

I've searched both the site and the web for Rob Watts + Susvara with no relevant response. @Rob Watts I believe it would be helpful to have your response to this discussion?

2016 flashback

 

[genefruit]

2016 flashback

Yeah, it's been a topic since 2017 without a direct quote from Rob, as far as I could find. Regardless of his answer, it'll not change anyone's take on the matter.

 

[Rob Watts]

I've searched both the site and the web for Rob Watts + Susvara with no relevant response. @Rob Watts I believe it would be helpful to have your response to this discussion?

I can't recall a posting on the Susvara for Dave, as my position on it is nuanced in that it depends on the listener. Dave can drive it to 92 dB SPL, which for me would be (just) fine; I normally run my headphones at a max of 90dB SPL. But to many listeners 92dB would not be enough, so it really depends upon the listener. From a current drive POV the Susvara is easy for Dave, it's just voltage limited above 92dB SPL.

To summarise - if you are using solo Dave, you can run to +4 on the volume control for 0dBFS sources; with an M scaler it's +7. So if volume levels on loud tracks are less than this then Dave can drive it perfectly; if with this volume you prefer an amp, then you are preferring distortion, colouration or lack of transparency.

 

[iDesign]

For perspective, how many of these inefficient flagship headphones now in question were released well after the DAVE was designed? Few members in this discussion even own the Susvara, and if you impulse purchased it to use with the DAVE, that speaks volumes. Chord never sold you the DAVE claiming it could power HIFIMAN‘s latest kit. It’s not like Rob Watts didn’t include plenty of outputs— find the amplifier you like and move on.

 

[adrianm]

I can't recall a posting on the Susvara for Dave, as my position on it is nuanced in that it depends on the listener. Dave can drive it to 92 dB SPL, which for me would be (just) fine; I normally run my headphones at a max of 90dB SPL. But to many listeners 92dB would not be enough, so it really depends upon the listener. From a current drive POV the Susvara is easy for Dave, it's just voltage limited above 92dB SPL.

To summarise - if you are using solo Dave, you can run to +4 on the volume control for 0dBFS sources; with an M scaler it's +7. So if volume levels on loud tracks are less than this then Dave can drive it perfectly; if with this volume you prefer an amp, then you are preferring distortion, colouration or lack of transparency.

FWIW, @mrspeakers had a similar position regarding Dave and Stealth, which is almost as inefficient. But then again, you guys are BFFS so if people don't trust you on this, they won't trust him

 

[801evan]

So far, there hasn't been reports of Dave frying a Susvara as well.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Definitely, correction on the quote mentioned. Almost added that as a caveat before posting and should've. Also, I think it's a mistake focusing on volume (not talking about Rob's direct post) and not quality of sound. Susvara/TC sound more anemic out of the Dave and I don't agree that this is synonymous with 'transparency' or due to coloration. I've also not come across anyone that prefers using either with the Dave. I don't think it's reasonable to say that's primarily due to everyone just loving coloration.. but I know that's always what's stated. I've seen the countless debates on here regarding this and I'm not at all intending to open that can of worms here.

In any event, doubling down on what I mentioned earlier that surely everyone can enjoy what they enjoy. I would just say certainly again if you pay for the Susvara or TC, etc. I would just thoroughly test with and without and come to your own, evidenced conclusion.

 

[801evan]

To attest to the transparency of the Dave, and the importance of signal chain, Goldensound said his reference test on sibilance is an Axwell and Grosso track because since his Holo May and Spring 3 + ahb2 + Susvara is sibilant on it, then it must be sibilant. But that track isn't sibilant across 4 of my DACs, including the Hugo 2 and the Dave on the Susvara. There are parts where the vocal track itself has some baked in sibilance but it's fairly obvious it sits on a lower tonality than where real sibilance should reside.

 

[Rob Watts]

FWIW, @mrspeakers had a similar position regarding Dave and Stealth, which is almost as inefficient. But then again, you guys are BFFS so if people don't trust you on this, they won't trust him

Stealth with Dave would be an ear damaging 100dB SPL - some 8dB more than Susvara.