CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Dec 7, 2021 at 3:00 PM Post #18,421 of 25,845
Have yo tried direct Dave to power amp ?
Any thoughts ?
Lately there was a small discussion on hugo2 thread of using Chord dacs in dac/preamp mode directly with power amps, and I'm curious of your opinion.
I’ve used Dave both through a Spectral preamp and direct into Spectral power amps balanced and single ended. By far the best is single ended direct into the power amps. I need a preamp for my turntable and headamp so i separate the digital and the analog systems prior to the power amps with a Rek o kut switch
 
Dec 8, 2021 at 1:21 PM Post #18,422 of 25,845
I've owned the Dave for a few weeks now a massive upgrade over the Qutest both used with the MScaler.

The detail, bass, sound stage from the Dave is off the charts, amazing!

If you have a spare shelf on your "brawn" rack, put the M scaler there, preferably near the floor. Worst case, put it on the floor under the brawn rack.

M Scaler generates lots of RF noise and your 300 head unit (guess) being close to it won't like that noise, I'm afraid.

Also, being a Naim system, you're unlikely to prefer DAVE direct into the 300. It's simpler to ditch Naim and use an Etude driven by DAVE instead, for a quarter of the price of 252/300. Or an Ultima 6 or 5 if you fear Etude doesn't have the grunt. Being in the UK, it should be fairly easy to borrow an Etude.

It looks like you don't have M Scaler set to maximum upsampling!
 
Dec 8, 2021 at 3:08 PM Post #18,424 of 25,845
If you have a spare shelf on your "brawn" rack, put the M scaler there, preferably near the floor. Worst case, put it on the floor under the brawn rack.

M Scaler generates lots of RF noise and your 300 head unit (guess) being close to it won't like that noise, I'm afraid.

Also, being a Naim system, you're unlikely to prefer DAVE direct into the 300. It's simpler to ditch Naim and use an Etude driven by DAVE instead, for a quarter of the price of 252/300. Or an Ultima 6 or 5 if you fear Etude doesn't have the grunt. Being in the UK, it should be fairly easy to borrow an Etude.

It looks like you don't have M Scaler set to maximum upsampling!

On the brawn rack my ND5XS2 sits on the top shelf I may swap this around with the MScaler, the MScaler is set for max upsampling must be my mobile phone pic playing with the colours.

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
Dec 8, 2021 at 5:37 PM Post #18,425 of 25,845
I am just testing a new farad lps setup for my dave. Just running it for a day. I wrote a few pages of my first impression and how we came to the idea and the development. Is this the right place to copy that story just posted it on the chord owners on facebook?

Can add some pictures and a few pages text in a few minutes
 
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Dec 8, 2021 at 5:43 PM Post #18,426 of 25,845
Farad super3 setup for the Chord Dave



After reading a lot on the forums about upgrading the LPS (linear power supply) of the Chord Dave and the results people are getting by adding a Paul Hynes or Sean Jacobs DC4 power supply, I was eager to get one on my own set. I already had a Farad Super3 on the Mscaler and because farad is also Dutch I contacted Mattijs the owner of Farad if he was interested in doing a project of making an affordable lps for the Dave. In the past he had this question often but I explained my own background as electronics engineer and willing to use my new Dave as test object and make some parts for the project. About around the same time he was asked to do a kind of similar lps for another DAC brand with a positive and negative power supply. So now two parties were asking him and having some ideas already in his head he agreed, notice!!! this was only approx 2 month ago.

After a brainstorming session he told me passionately about his ideas and what he thought should be on such a system for a high end DAC. Mattijs has some experience on audio design as being a founder of Pink Faun. The first key feature that was an absolute must was designing a true negative powersupply. So not pairing two positive supplies where the positive of one is attached to the negative of the other and so creating a minus when using a floating ground or rail as it is called. A true negative power supply is completely opposite build so eg. npn transistors, capacitors are the other way around - same with the diode bridge and the negative based regulators etc.. will not go into the details but the end result is a lps were all the common grounds can be attached to each other one does not have to be floating. So all rf noise can be killed at the source and not at the end of the chain. Also floating ground can be submitted to different loads from the upper and lower side voltages and this could cause a shifting or jittering ground level.

Secondly Mattijs and i are convinced that every DC voltage the Dave gets should have a separate casing and transformer so no cross contamination can occur and every lps is filtered on its own internally and externally eg. Powercord, casing, wiring etc.. Using farads stock components would also save a lot of development and testing time. These power supplies have proven themself in and out of the audio world. He designed his true negative supply in no time having the idea for a long time already, he only had to design a new pcb and had this made in his production facility in no time.



The third key feature we figured that it should have was a safety device for enabling the power to the Dave. Each voltage +-15V and +5V, three in total will come to the Dave in different timing. A -15 will start up in approx 7sec and the 5V in 1 sec. We don't know if the Dave can handle this and what happens if you are on holiday and one power supply fails and it will only get 2 out of three voltages.



The fourth but not the most un-important one, it should be affordable. I cannot give prices because they are not mine to give but you can do a little bit of the math yourself as we are using three stock farad power supplies if you add the one for the Mscaler 4 in total so thats approx 2400,- in VAT on 4 stock lps’s add the wiring and monitoring print and the aluminum inlet with plugs and maybe powercords you can guess were the basic version will start. On a later stage I will test upgrades such as fuses, rhodium inlets, but only after setting a baseline with the stock components. (While i am typing this i am listening to my ultimate playlist and are flabbergasted every few moments)
Using 4 Farad Super3 power supplies you will not have a big footprint, the supplies can be stacked or laid out flat next to each other. A lot of configurations are possible and as I have learned in this audio world everyone has a different approach on how they setup their gear and this way everybody can be happy. I have seen people building racks for just there farads.

So mattijs designed a monitoring print for inside of the Dave. The space was used were the original power supply was. This print will only pass through the three DC voltages simultaneously if all are present, a so called AND function in digital terms and a fail save if people would switch the lines. This way the dave is always safe, not a bad thing for a DAC that costs 11.400,- euro in the EU. He uses a microprocessor on this board that later on can be tweaked or reprogrammed if necessary. While mattijs was designing the lps i was doing some cnc work for the power inlet of the dave.

It still amazes me from two viewpoints how the stock $32 costing medical switched power supply of the dave still sounds so good and also that chord does not upgrade this by making a choral stand with an external power supply, how hard can it be? And people, the difference is not subtle it's huge - how much better the Dave gets by doing this i will almost call it Dave 2.

The advantage of above system is that customers pretty much can install this system themselves with a degree of safety that nothing can be blown up by doing something wrong or if/when components fail in the future. Everything can fail as we all know, the Chord as can be read on forums are also failing now and then and repaired by Chord, that's life when using electronics, crap happens. But this way it feels much better and to be honest the start up sequence is also pretty cool to watch. All separate lps’s LED start to blink red and when ready go over into a nice blue and after a fraction of a sec the dave comes alive (sorry thats my ocd kicking in).

Last week Mattijs called me that the monitor print was ready and tested. So he gave me a DIY kit of all separate components for me to install into the dave and test if it works. The first trail I do will be with stock farad super3 power supplies the only upgrade that is made are the dc lines - these are silver. The past has proven that these cables work the best between the super3 and Dave. For the power cords I had to go on Mattijs' experience and the feedback from his customers so i used TCS021 furutech cable this is slightly thinner version than the advised TCS031 version. I wanted to use one AC power connecter to 3 AC euro inlets this saves alot of space in the power block. The connectors used are also furutech and the gold versions around $30 a piece.

I soldered currently Daves own internally dc cord of its own power supply as the gold plated pins of the new connector are in back-order. I think in the future for my own setup will solder everything and will not use any connector but that's custom and not for now.

After testing everything without connected the dc to the Dave, it all worked in one go. Next I made everything fit and flipped the switch and after the startup sequence the Dave came nicely alive. I installed everything in my setup and the magic started.

I will repeat my first impressions I applied to Mattijs at 2 in the middle of the night “every instrument and voice has got its own space now, bass has much more texture and attack and depth and with vocals it is as if they are separate entities in front of you…” and than some words i will not repeat online, next notes I sent were “the fatigue that was always a bit there are just GONE the snares and trumpets tjeessss mattijs i am back to listening again bye”

This morning after listing for a few hours and thinking what to say about the change it makes out of the box and how to describe it best for now i think it's as if the sound and coloration of my gear/setup is vanished and just the music is left. Btw excuse me for my English i am not native English but Dutch and just typing as i am thinking. Our opinions above are also just mine and in my own setup. I owned almost all modern Chord dacs including all lps tweaks. In my setup i use an Aurender N10 as streamer a new Chord Dave and Mscaler connected with the high fidelity storm bnc cables. Amplifier is a Nelson Pass class A connected to the new Usher TD-10 speakers who are internally upgraded. I also have dedicated power on one phase from the powerbox just for my audio gear. As headset i use the Focal Utopia. In the upcoming week i will do some serious listening and will come back on my finding on this magical upgrade.
 

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Dec 9, 2021 at 2:42 AM Post #18,427 of 25,845
Farad super3 setup for the Chord Dave



After reading a lot on the forums about upgrading the LPS (linear power supply) of the Chord Dave and the results people are getting by adding a Paul Hynes or Sean Jacobs DC4 power supply, I was eager to get one on my own set. I already had a Farad Super3 on the Mscaler and because farad is also Dutch I contacted Mattijs the owner of Farad if he was interested in doing a project of making an affordable lps for the Dave. In the past he had this question often but I explained my own background as electronics engineer and willing to use my new Dave as test object and make some parts for the project. About around the same time he was asked to do a kind of similar lps for another DAC brand with a positive and negative power supply. So now two parties were asking him and having some ideas already in his head he agreed, notice!!! this was only approx 2 month ago.

After a brainstorming session he told me passionately about his ideas and what he thought should be on such a system for a high end DAC. Mattijs has some experience on audio design as being a founder of Pink Faun. The first key feature that was an absolute must was designing a true negative powersupply. So not pairing two positive supplies where the positive of one is attached to the negative of the other and so creating a minus when using a floating ground or rail as it is called. A true negative power supply is completely opposite build so eg. npn transistors, capacitors are the other way around - same with the diode bridge and the negative based regulators etc.. will not go into the details but the end result is a lps were all the common grounds can be attached to each other one does not have to be floating. So all rf noise can be killed at the source and not at the end of the chain. Also floating ground can be submitted to different loads from the upper and lower side voltages and this could cause a shifting or jittering ground level.

Secondly Mattijs and i are convinced that every DC voltage the Dave gets should have a separate casing and transformer so no cross contamination can occur and every lps is filtered on its own internally and externally eg. Powercord, casing, wiring etc.. Using farads stock components would also save a lot of development and testing time. These power supplies have proven themself in and out of the audio world. He designed his true negative supply in no time having the idea for a long time already, he only had to design a new pcb and had this made in his production facility in no time.



The third key feature we figured that it should have was a safety device for enabling the power to the Dave. Each voltage +-15V and +5V, three in total will come to the Dave in different timing. A -15 will start up in approx 7sec and the 5V in 1 sec. We don't know if the Dave can handle this and what happens if you are on holiday and one power supply fails and it will only get 2 out of three voltages.



The fourth but not the most un-important one, it should be affordable. I cannot give prices because they are not mine to give but you can do a little bit of the math yourself as we are using three stock farad power supplies if you add the one for the Mscaler 4 in total so thats approx 2400,- in VAT on 4 stock lps’s add the wiring and monitoring print and the aluminum inlet with plugs and maybe powercords you can guess were the basic version will start. On a later stage I will test upgrades such as fuses, rhodium inlets, but only after setting a baseline with the stock components. (While i am typing this i am listening to my ultimate playlist and are flabbergasted every few moments)
Using 4 Farad Super3 power supplies you will not have a big footprint, the supplies can be stacked or laid out flat next to each other. A lot of configurations are possible and as I have learned in this audio world everyone has a different approach on how they setup their gear and this way everybody can be happy. I have seen people building racks for just there farads.

So mattijs designed a monitoring print for inside of the Dave. The space was used were the original power supply was. This print will only pass through the three DC voltages simultaneously if all are present, a so called AND function in digital terms and a fail save if people would switch the lines. This way the dave is always safe, not a bad thing for a DAC that costs 11.400,- euro in the EU. He uses a microprocessor on this board that later on can be tweaked or reprogrammed if necessary. While mattijs was designing the lps i was doing some cnc work for the power inlet of the dave.

It still amazes me from two viewpoints how the stock $32 costing medical switched power supply of the dave still sounds so good and also that chord does not upgrade this by making a choral stand with an external power supply, how hard can it be? And people, the difference is not subtle it's huge - how much better the Dave gets by doing this i will almost call it Dave 2.

The advantage of above system is that customers pretty much can install this system themselves with a degree of safety that nothing can be blown up by doing something wrong or if/when components fail in the future. Everything can fail as we all know, the Chord as can be read on forums are also failing now and then and repaired by Chord, that's life when using electronics, crap happens. But this way it feels much better and to be honest the start up sequence is also pretty cool to watch. All separate lps’s LED start to blink red and when ready go over into a nice blue and after a fraction of a sec the dave comes alive (sorry thats my ocd kicking in).

Last week Mattijs called me that the monitor print was ready and tested. So he gave me a DIY kit of all separate components for me to install into the dave and test if it works. The first trail I do will be with stock farad super3 power supplies the only upgrade that is made are the dc lines - these are silver. The past has proven that these cables work the best between the super3 and Dave. For the power cords I had to go on Mattijs' experience and the feedback from his customers so i used TCS021 furutech cable this is slightly thinner version than the advised TCS031 version. I wanted to use one AC power connecter to 3 AC euro inlets this saves alot of space in the power block. The connectors used are also furutech and the gold versions around $30 a piece.

I soldered currently Daves own internally dc cord of its own power supply as the gold plated pins of the new connector are in back-order. I think in the future for my own setup will solder everything and will not use any connector but that's custom and not for now.

After testing everything without connected the dc to the Dave, it all worked in one go. Next I made everything fit and flipped the switch and after the startup sequence the Dave came nicely alive. I installed everything in my setup and the magic started.

I will repeat my first impressions I applied to Mattijs at 2 in the middle of the night “every instrument and voice has got its own space now, bass has much more texture and attack and depth and with vocals it is as if they are separate entities in front of you…” and than some words i will not repeat online, next notes I sent were “the fatigue that was always a bit there are just GONE the snares and trumpets tjeessss mattijs i am back to listening again bye”

This morning after listing for a few hours and thinking what to say about the change it makes out of the box and how to describe it best for now i think it's as if the sound and coloration of my gear/setup is vanished and just the music is left. Btw excuse me for my English i am not native English but Dutch and just typing as i am thinking. Our opinions above are also just mine and in my own setup. I owned almost all modern Chord dacs including all lps tweaks. In my setup i use an Aurender N10 as streamer a new Chord Dave and Mscaler connected with the high fidelity storm bnc cables. Amplifier is a Nelson Pass class A connected to the new Usher TD-10 speakers who are internally upgraded. I also have dedicated power on one phase from the powerbox just for my audio gear. As headset i use the Focal Utopia. In the upcoming week i will do some serious listening and will come back on my finding on this magical upgrade.

Well done and congratulations! It is interesting that you were tempted to call what you were listening to as ‘Dave 2’ due to the improved sound quality by ditching the internal SMPS. Dave 2 is also exactly what came to my mind when I was listening to the DC4 Dave (now improved to the ARC6 Dave of course). It would be great if we could get the two solutions side by side one day to hear a comparison.

By the way, congratulations also on engineering a dual purpose cable support for those nice bnc cables. 😜 😀 🤣 👍

I look forward to your further reports but I predict a distinct loss of sleep over the week as you stay up later and later listening to more and more music. 👍
 
Dec 9, 2021 at 2:50 AM Post #18,428 of 25,845
Thanks nick, yeah thats support is nice m, the two cables for the 15v are to short to stack then below as i want but its for the test when the cables are in it will ve changed😁. We will compare them definitly would be awsome to do.
 
Dec 9, 2021 at 2:52 AM Post #18,429 of 25,845
I can't wait for the outcome :L3000:
as I mentioned, some time ago I contacted Mattijs (farad3) and asked about custom lps for dave and he was too busy making other things.
BUT the universe has listened, it was inevitable !
 
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Dec 9, 2021 at 3:54 AM Post #18,430 of 25,845
Some pictures of the setup and install, two dc cables are a bit to short tonstack them below this will be changed once the cable are in.
 

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Dec 9, 2021 at 4:55 AM Post #18,431 of 25,845
I wanted to use one AC power connecter to 3 AC euro inlets this saves alot of space in the power block. The connectors used are also furutech and the gold versions around $30 a piece.
Firstly, it's great to see a a lower cost alternative to the DC4, so I read this post with considerable interest, as the DC4 is very big, very heavy and very expensive for my downsizing preferences.

But for me it would be even better if there was a lot less spaghetti in this Farad solution: I.e. 1 box, with 1 AC cable going into it.
Yes you can stack 3 Farads together, but it's still a lot of spaghetti involved.

As someone who has dabbled with tweaking external power supplies in the past, IMO every cable, plug, socket, fuse can make a significant difference, so there is huge temptation here to spec up this triple solution. Much simpler if it was just 1 box, 1 AC cable and 1 fuse. OTOH, tripling everything up could help isolate interference and therefore potentially improve SQ.

All things considered, once this triple solution has proven it's worth, I suggest that Mattijs will get even more sales if he additionally offers the 3 power supplies inside a single larger box (but still relatively compact compared to the DC4).
 
Dec 9, 2021 at 5:18 AM Post #18,433 of 25,845
Firstly, it's great to see a a lower cost alternative to the DC4, so I read this post with considerable interest, as the DC4 is very big, very heavy and very expensive for my downsizing preferences.

But for me it would be even better if there was a lot less spaghetti in this Farad solution: I.e. 1 box, with 1 AC cable going into it.
Yes you can stack 3 Farads together, but it's still a lot of spaghetti involved.

As someone who has dabbled with tweaking external power supplies in the past, IMO every cable, plug, socket, fuse can make a significant difference, so there is huge temptation here to spec up this triple solution. Much simpler if it was just 1 box, 1 AC cable and 1 fuse. OTOH, tripling everything up could help isolate interference and therefore potentially improve SQ.

All things considered, once this triple solution has proven it's worth, I suggest that Mattijs will get even more sales if he additionally offers the 3 power supplies inside a single larger box (but still relatively compact compared to the DC4).
You got some points there i also mentioned in my conversations with mattijs but the first intension is the use of the exsisting product super3. Indeed the future will improve matters and maybe i myself ripp out the three pcb and put it in one nice flat box, its not rocket science.
Damn more things todo, so nice this hobby.
 
Dec 9, 2021 at 11:46 AM Post #18,434 of 25,845
I've had my DAVE since 2018, and today it started dropping out. It sounds thin, then distortion/static, then drop out... and then comes back in thin again. I've tried 3 sources and 2 cables and 3 headphones, same issue. Anybody experienced this? Any idea how to go about getting service?
 
Dec 9, 2021 at 2:28 PM Post #18,435 of 25,845
I've had my DAVE since 2018, and today it started dropping out. It sounds thin, then distortion/static, then drop out... and then comes back in thin again. I've tried 3 sources and 2 cables and 3 headphones, same issue. Anybody experienced this? Any idea how to go about getting service?
email support@chordelectronics.co.uk and ask for their advice.
 

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