[chelseafc]

Has anyone measured the rfi produced by the mscaler? Rob says most is mitigated internally.

Has anyone considered the impact of the BNC ferrites on the signal itself?
I believe the SPDIF is synchronous (as oppose to USB) and preserving the sharp signal edges very important to maintaining accurate timing on the receiving end.
Could it be that ferrites cause some timing smearing that many interpret as improvements?
Similar to suggestions that a good dose of RFI could add brightness to the sound and be mistaken for better resolution?

 

[sm60]

Has anyone considered the impact of the BNC ferrites on the signal itself?
I believe the SPDIF is synchronous (as oppose to USB) and preserving the sharp signal edges very important to maintaining accurate timing on the receiving end.
Could it be that ferrites cause some timing smearing that many interpret as improvements?
Similar to suggestions that a good dose of RFI could add brightness to the sound and be mistaken for better resolution?

This whole discussion convinces me even more of the significant inherent flaws in the design of the whole Blu/M-scaler to Dave interface and the whole suite of perhaps mistaken design choices made. DSP is extremely well understood at the academic level and countless products function flawlessly without the need for ridiculous amounts of RF suppression measures and humungous and expensive linear power supplies. In my experience the Dave and Blu are inherently prone to RFI and light up like a Christmas tree if I do anything in the same room electrically (e.g., turn on some other component despite having the Blu/Dave on a separate expensive regulated PS Audio power supply).

 

[chelseafc]

This whole discussion convinces me even more of the significant inherent flaws in the design of the whole Blu/M-scaler to Dave interface and the whole suite of perhaps mistaken design choices made. DSP is extremely well understood at the academic level and countless products function flawlessly without the need for ridiculous amounts of RF suppression measures and humungous and expensive linear power supplies. In my experience the Dave and Blu are inherently prone to RFI and light up like a Christmas tree if I do anything in the same room electrically (e.g., turn on some other component despite having the Blu/Dave on a separate expensive regulated PS Audio power supply).

My experience is different.
I have a 77” TV hanging on the wall 2 feet behind the DAVE and for the life of me I cannot tell the difference between TV on and TV off.
I have no idea how does RFI sound, maybe it is a blessing.
Would readily accept that my hearing is not what it is used to be, but I can easily tell the difference between HQPlayer on and off into DAVE.
I can also hear if the power amp plugged into the wall or into Niagara 3000 (worse).

Back to my original dilemma, if indeed M Scaler and DAVE are only 50% as good out of the box, I would be willing to contemplate tweaks.
But is am in serious doubt it is the case.
I am totally cool with people creating an aftermarket industry for all sorts of gadgets they you must have.
You just need to take the promises with a grain of salt.

 

[marcmccalmont]

Has anyone considered the impact of the BNC ferrites on the signal itself?
I believe the SPDIF is synchronous (as oppose to USB) and preserving the sharp signal edges very important to maintaining accurate timing on the receiving end.
Could it be that ferrites cause some timing smearing that many interpret as improvements?
Similar to suggestions that a good dose of RFI could add brightness to the sound and be mistaken for better resolution?

The ferrites are up against the outer braid not near the center conductor. With enough ferrites this reduces ground plane noise which is what Rob Watts was talking about not ground loops. No effect on the leading edge of the signal

 

[chelseafc]

My experience is different.
I have a 77” TV hanging on the wall 2 feet behind the DAVE and for the life of me I cannot tell the difference between TV on and TV off.
I have no idea how does RFI sound, maybe it is a blessing.
Would readily accept that my hearing is not what it is used to be, but I can easily tell the difference between HQPlayer on and off into DAVE.
I can also hear if the power amp plugged into the wall or into Niagara 3000 (worse).

Back to my original dilemma, if indeed M Scaler and DAVE are only 50% as good out of the box, I would be willing to contemplate tweaks.
But is am in serious doubt it is the case.
I am totally cool with people creating an aftermarket industry for all sorts of gadgets they you must have.
You just need to take the promises with a grain of salt.

BTW, I work for a medical imaging equipment company and can imagine what reaction of the FDA would be if we asked the customers to burn-in our systems prior to use.
We would be out of business by now, but that is another can of worms in the hi-fi world…

 

[adrianm]

I have a 77” TV hanging on the wall 2 feet behind the DAVE and for the life of me I cannot tell the difference between TV on and TV off.

I have no idea how does RFI sound, maybe it is a blessing.

In case it helps, here's what i've experienced :

I haven't heard any difference with the M-scaler right next to Dave or further away, only via cables. With one exception being a USB cable plugged in next to a USB Wi-Fi receiver. The effects were the same.
I can clearly hear a difference between:
- optical and usb (darker background, and less fatiguing sound)
-Dave in the power conditioner or the outlet (with my pc and about 8-9 other electronics) : Bass is much deeper with the Aquarius, background is darker, depth improves, less bothersome highs, less "clutter" (I like to use Dropkick Murphys "Rose Tattoo" for this test ) and much less fatiguing sound overall.
- after all that, add the M-scaler and all those improvements are gone. It's like an RF nuke. There are considerable improvements in all areas however so you wouldn't know it necessarily at first. However i find very fatiguing.
To me the best test for the M-scaler is plugging it into the mains vs a battery. Even with the filter the soundstage collapses like 20%. It goes from 180 degrees to like 140 in my system and depth diminishes as well. And shrill highs are back. To be fair some people have complained about this on the Z1R so maybe it just exacerbates an existing problem, but those are pretty much the hallmarks of RF noise.

Would readily accept that my hearing is not what it is used to be, but I can easily tell the difference between HQPlayer on and off into DAVE.

I've considered ditching the M-scaler for Roon and some upsampling software, but on its own Roon sounds much worse than my streamer's native app on Qobuz. I honestly didn't expect it to be the case and i have no clear explanation for it as of now, but it is disappointing.

Back to my original dilemma, if indeed M Scaler and DAVE are only 50% as good out of the box, I would be willing to contemplate tweaks.
But is am in serious doubt it is the case.

I wouldn't say it's 50% , but i don't have the 10k or whatever PSU people are drooling about. I do however travel with Dave and use it Solo every month or so for like a week. Sans mains filter, M-scaler,streamer etc. I'd say it's about 70-80% of the whole thing (depending on the track).
And i'd rather have no M-Scaler than run if off the mains at this point. That said, the last 20ish % is pretty impressive and i can see why people go through the hassle.

 

[chelseafc]

@adrianm thanks, this is very useful information.

I am with you on Roon sounding terrible straight into DAVE and I have no idea why.
HQPlayer takes DAVE to the next level.
I am getting new M Scaler in a couple of days and already having buyers’ remorse, reading this forum.
Good chance I will return it and reluctantly stay with HQPlayer, which is a pain in different ways.

 

[adrianm]

@adrianm thanks, this is very useful information.

I am with you on Roon sounding terrible straight into DAVE and I have no idea why.
HQPlayer takes DAVE to the next level.
I am getting new M Scaler in a couple of days and already having buyers’ remorse, reading this forum.
Good chance I will return it and reluctantly stay with HQPlayer, which is a pain in different ways.

FWIW the stock BNC cables are crap. Ferrites or not, anything would be an upgrade. I'd keep it sensible though. In case you want to test out the battery, this is what I'm using :
https://www.amazon.com/POWEROAK-Ext...d=1639176358&sprefix=50000mah,aps,255&sr=8-16
Add a Wi-fi enabled plug and you don't have to bother unplugging it every time you listen. As a headphone user it's no hassle. If you use speakers you might feel differently. Alternatively you can go down the Opto-dx and ferrite route.
Don't let me dishearten you though. Imperfect as it may be, it is worth the hassle. I hate that i still love it.
I look forward to your impressions when it arrives

 

[chelseafc]

it has to beat HQPlayer hands down, otherwise it will be hard to justify all this trouble, not to mention $$$

 

[iDesign]

FWIW the stock BNC cables are crap. Ferrites or not, anything would be an upgrade.

Not in my experience. The OE PRO-SIGNAL BNC cables with Würth ferrites had less audible distortion and dropouts than the flagship BNC cables from a “member of the trade” that were popularized on this forum. My DAVE and Blu2 have worked perfectly ever since I reverted back to simple cables that are actually properly made and I have no need or desire to upgrade— sometimes hobbyist and niche cables are worse.

 

[chelseafc]

Could you please point to a site where they can be purchased?

 

[adrianm]

Not in my experience. The OE PRO-SIGNAL BNC cables with Würth ferrites had less audible distortion and dropouts than the flagship BNC cables from a “member of the trade” that were popularized on this forum. My DAVE and Blu2 have worked perfectly ever since I reverted back to simple cables that are actually properly made and I have no need or desire to upgrade— sometimes hobbyist and niche cables are worse.

I wouldn't know about that, i'm using some plain old silver Oyaide :
https://www.amazon.com/OYAIDE-1-3m-DIGITAL-CABLE-DB-510/dp/B000WMC5YA.
I've heard good things about Moon silver dragons as well.
https://www.moon-audio.com/silver-dragon-digital-cable-v1.html
After auditioning higher priced BNC's (member of the trade ones excluded ) i hesitate to buy/recommend anything more expensive than these. As always, YMMV.

 

[MvRBE10]

I am curious if you've tried a battery with the M-scaler vs the Farad. Without the Wave cables.

No i did not thats something i read about but now you mention it something good to try soon.

 

[CBR954RR]

Between my MScaler / Dave I use Mark Grant HDX1 cables

https://www.markgrantcables.co.uk/uk/digital-cables/mark-grant-hdx1-pure-copper-digital-coax-cable/

 

[Progisus]

While I wait for my Wave Storm, I amusing a pair of red and blue Blue Jeans (belden) cables. The ones in the box suck as bad now as they did with my first mscaler.