[Triode User]

Well that's useful, thanks. I'll disconnect it and see what happens.

It’s just me but I think the sound of Dave with no MScaler connected is better than using mscaler on pass through.

 

[Progisus]

I found it interesting in Audio Bacon’s review he found the mscaler most enjoyable with the blue globe setting. Not positive the colour but one below white. I had to agree but forced myself to listen to white... well because

 

[adrianm]

As mentioned just now it is approx 3dB different and that is why you cannot just compare solo Dave to Dave plus mscaler without increasing the volume. Some will say one can use pass through on the mscaler but I have never found that sounds the same as just taking mscaler out of the system and totally disconnecting it.

You're right, must still be noise from the BNCs, there's a noticeably darker background with solo Dave via optical than m-scaler via usb. And M-scaler via optical has a weird softness.
Well that about settles it , my Dave hasn't sounded this good in 3 days .

 

[adrianm]

I found it interesting in Audio Bacon’s review he found the mscaler most enjoyable with the blue globe setting. Not positive the colour but one below white. I had to agree but forced myself to listen to white... well because

Is the blue basically a single bnc maxed out? Because when i plugged them in reverse and it would only go up to 300 something khz that sounded better than 700 to me as well.

 

[iamoneagain]

I found it interesting in Audio Bacon’s review he found the mscaler most enjoyable with the blue globe setting. Not positive the colour but one below white. I had to agree but forced myself to listen to white... well because

I asked about this in the past about mscaler settings but wouldn’t the green and blue settings end up getting upsample again internally since it’s not maxing out Dave’s upsampling and bypassing it. Only the white setting bypasses Dave’s internal, allowing you to actually here what the mscaler is doing.

Oh and thanks group for letter me know about the 2.7 dBs. Yeah I think Dave on its own is better than passthru since less equipment. And instead of comparing a song with mscaler on vs passthru might be best to listen with no mscaler at all for a while and see if still enjoy as much. See after extended listening if still miss it. I know going back and forth you’ll hear improvement but your brain adjusts and it really ends up coming down to if enjoy it the same.

 

[iamoneagain]

So don’t think I’m going to go thru with my test. Using test track Trip Trap by Marcus Miller off the Laid Back album. Saw some review used this track. Anyway it goes back to what previous poster said:

Dave alone is like one of best recording you’ve every heard. But can tell it’s still a recording. Depth, air, texture don’t sound like I’m in same room with them.

When I add the mscaler it’s like I’m in the studio. Another layer removed. Highs have more sparkle, there’s more texture, air and space. Blackest background. Bass is completely controlled.

So at this point I think I’d miss it if I sold it.

One thing to point out is the Danacable on the Utopia’s took them to another level of transparency so what may be a slight change with another headphone is easily heard even compared to stock cable Utopia’s.

 

[adrianm]

I asked about this in the past about mscaler settings but wouldn’t the green and blue settings end up getting upsample again internally since it’s not maxing out Dave’s upsampling and bypassing it. Only the white setting bypasses Dave’s internal, allowing you to actually here what the mscaler is doing.

Oh and thanks group for letter me know about the 2.7 dBs. Yeah I think Dave on its own is better than passthru since less equipment. And instead of comparing a song with mscaler on vs passthru might be best to listen with no mscaler at all for a while and see if still enjoy as much. See after extended listening if still miss it. I know going back and forth you’ll hear improvement but your brain adjusts and it really ends up coming down to if enjoy it the same.

Well solo Dave is so much better it's not even close. Sure with the m-scaler on max there's a bit wider soundstage on some songs and a bit better separation (10% max) but with solo Dave there's a much darker background and details are a lot more apparent.
I can see why people add batteries/LPSU's/ferrited cables to it, it just seems like the m-scaler is an RF bomb. And it's plugged into the same mains filter as Dave. But when they're connected to each other, even in passthrough, most of the benefits of the filter are gone.
Solo Dave is optical vs m-scaler on usb with jitterbug from a desktop pc, but the m-scaler just sounds weird to me on optical.

 

[iamoneagain]

Well solo Dave is so much better it's not even close. Sure with the m-scaler on max there's a bit wider soundstage on some songs and a bit better separation (10% max) but with solo Dave there's a much darker background and details are a lot more apparent.
I can see why people add batteries/LPSU's/ferrited cables to it, it just seems like the m-scaler is an RF bomb. And it's plugged into the same mains filter as Dave. But when they're connected to each other, even in passthrough, most of the benefits of the filter are gone.
Solo Dave is optical vs m-scaler on usb with jitterbug from a desktop pc, but the m-scaler just sounds weird to me on optical.

Usb with mscaler seems to give better soundstage. Found optical too smooth and slight rounded sound. It sounded better than my lousy usb Mac mini but once I got clean usb, definitely preferred it. That why was willing to get usb only streamer.

 

[Triode User]

Using test track Trip Trap by Marcus Miller off the Laid Back album. Saw some review used this track.

I use this track quite a lot when testing set ups and also in demos. It sound great and is quite revealing at the same time especially if you play it as loud as you dare.

Love the whole album as well. Great bass player.

 

[adrianm]

Usb with mscaler seems to give better soundstage. Found optical too smooth and slight rounded sound. It sounded better than my lousy usb Mac mini but once I got clean usb, definitely preferred it

Exactly what i found. I do prefer it with solo Dave though. I listened to Trip Trap by Marcus Miller and i have to say it sounds more or less identical. I've never noticed any tonality changes from the m-scaler, but bass did become a lot mushier with usb, probably RF again.
I also like to use Susan Werner's An american in Havana album for test tracks. And again almost no difference with upsampling or passthrough, just a bit more soundstage. And again solo Dave sounds better than both.
Tomorrow i'm returning it and going to also listen to it with the Utopias. My Silver Lavricables also makes a huge difference. A lot more than the m-scaler. If someone would've said that to me a year ago i would've called snake oil lol.

 

[adrianm]

So don’t think I’m going to go thru with my test. Using test track Trip Trap by Marcus Miller off the Laid Back album. Saw some review used this track. Anyway it goes back to what previous poster said:

Dave alone is like one of best recording you’ve every heard. But can tell it’s still a recording. Depth, air, texture don’t sound like I’m in same room with them.

When I add the mscaler it’s like I’m in the studio. Another layer removed. Highs have more sparkle, there’s more texture, air and space. Blackest background. Bass is completely controlled.

So at this point I think I’d miss it if I sold it.

One thing to point out is the Danacable on the Utopia’s took them to another level of transparency so what may be a slight change with another headphone is easily heard even compared to stock cable Utopia’s.

Out of curiosity, what volume do you usually listen at?

 

[iamoneagain]

Exactly what i found. I do prefer it with solo Dave though. I listened to Trip Trap by Marcus Miller and i have to say it sounds more or less identical. I've never noticed any tonality changes from the m-scaler, but bass did become a lot mushier with usb, probably RF again.
I also like to use Susan Werner's An american in Havana album for test tracks. And again almost no difference with upsampling or passthrough, just a bit more soundstage. And again solo Dave sounds better than both.
Tomorrow i'm returning it and going to also listen to it with the Utopias. My Silver Lavricables also makes a huge difference. A lot more than the m-scaler. If someone would've said that to me a year ago i would've called snake oil lol.

Think headphone cables might be the least argued about as far as making a difference. Good manufacturers seems to understand how to reduce resistance.

And since money doesn’t seem to be an issue for you why not do another demo with Wave cables or battery. You feel it’s the RF getting in the way and if removed that might get the benefits others speak of. One could argue that if paying that much for a device why should there have to be anything to fix. I can see how all this could lead someone to single box Bartok. Buy and be done with it.

 

[iamoneagain]

Out of curiosity, what volume do you usually listen at?

Depends on the album but anywhere from lower -20s to about -30 with mscaler. Might be older album that need to go to -18 at the highest. The Marcus Miller one listening at -21. Making my way thru that album with mscaler is much more immersive. Not my usual genre but sound quality is amazing.

 

[adrianm]

Think headphone cables might be the least argued about as far as making a difference. Good manufacturers seems to understand how to reduce resistance.

And since money doesn’t seem to be an issue for you why not do another demo with Wave cables or battery. You feel it’s the RF getting in the way and if removed that might get the benefits others speak of. One could argue that if paying that much for a device why should there have to be anything to fix. I can see how all this could lead someone to single box Bartok. Buy and be done with it.

It's not in the sense that i'm willing to spend more to get more, not that i have more than i know what to do with. I've got plenty of other hobbies waiting in line after audio and a new apartment to furnish.
By a simple calculation, even if i fix the problem i'd end up paying the price of the Dave just for a very slight increase in soundstage and separation and get to fill my desk with ugly boxes in the process, it's even cheaper to go for Bartok if i do find it better than Dave. Or whatever comes out in the next 2 years. I'm super happy with Dave at the moment, i just got my hopes up because of all the m-scaler hype, but i guess i should've checked other forums as well before.

 

[adrianm]

Depends on the album but anywhere from lower -20s to about -30 with mscaler. Might be older album that need to go to -18 at the highest. The Marcus Miller one listening at -21. Making my way thru that album with mscaler is much more immersive. Not my usual genre but sound quality is amazing.

I usually listen -38 to -43 (mostly new, loud stuff) but i find myself listening like 7-8 db lower after 3 days with the m-scaler.