[iamoneagain]

It's not in the sense that i'm willing to spend more to get more, not that i have more than i know what to do with. I've got plenty of other hobbies waiting in line after audio and a new apartment to furnish.
By a simple calculation, even if i fix the problem i'd end up paying the price of the Dave just for a very slight increase in soundstage and separation and get to fill my desk with ugly boxes in the process, it's even cheaper to go for Bartok if i do find it better than Dave. Or whatever comes out in the next 2 years. I'm super happy with Dave at the moment, i just got my hopes up because of all the m-scaler hype, but i guess i should've checked other forums as well before.

This place is very pro Dave and Chord in general. Not as as much love out there on other forums. But notice here don’t see the ultra high end setups mentioned as much I guess since headphone related. So maxing out at Dave and Bartok.

For me I would have never even considered the Bartok since mine was a Chord journey up. Even a used Bartok at $10k would have been out of my range. But now with open box mscaler, Stack Audio, and used Dave, I’m over that level. Crazy how it adds up. That’s why I can spend anymore. Really should have gone into savings in the first and just upgraded to TT2 and be done.

 

[iamoneagain]

I usually listen -38 to -43 (mostly new, loud stuff) but i find myself listening like 7-8 db lower after 3 days with the m-scaler.

Hmm, somethings not right. I really only adjust a few dBs to make up for mscaler. When I did the 3 like recommended it sounded about same volume. You sure hooking everything up from mscaler to Dave correctly. The left and right bnc can be confusing and some incorrect info out there about the output from mscaler. You’re seeing the D Bnc show up on Dave? Not sure if it was reverse would show.

Well I just tried to reverse the bnc cable and made no difference. Left and right sounds stayed the same. Thought I read on Dave you have to get cables right vs the TT2 didn’t matter. Maybe there was minor update to the Dave. Believe mine’s a 2019.

 

[Ciggavelli]

I’m a big fan of my DAVE and M-Scaler, but combined they cost like $16K for both boxes, $1K+ for usb cables, $1.5K+ Bnc cables, $1K+ for power cords

So, basically a full fledged Chord DAC costs like $20K+. (and you go even higher with servers, reclockers, power supplies, mains filtering).

Just from a business standpoint, it’s pretty genius. I wonder how many people would jump on an integrated dac (with m-scaler) that costs $20K. I’m guessing less than would have bought the DAVE first and then later added the m-scaler.

Separating our the costs definitely makes it easier to swallow. But, if you’re at $20K for a complete dac setup, that puts you in the realm of DCS and MSB.

 

[iamoneagain]

I’m a big fan of my DAVE and M-Scaler, but combined they cost like $16K for both boxes, $1K+ for usb cables, $1.5K+ Bnc cables, $1K+ for power cords

So, basically a full fledged Chord DAC costs like $20K+. (and you go even higher with servers, reclockers, power supplies, mains filtering).

Just from a business standpoint, it’s pretty genius. I wonder how many people would jump on an integrated dac (with m-scaler) that costs $20K. I’m guessing less than would have bought the DAVE first and then later added the m-scaler.

Separating our the costs definitely makes it easier to swallow. But, if you’re at $20K for a complete dac setup, that puts you in the realm of DCS and MSB.

Guess I’m lucky. Open box and used, got combo under $10k and still have warranties on both. $40 on Blue Jean bnc cables, $100 on Poweradd. The rest is stock. If I include my streamer I’m still under $11k.

 

[Lgn3]

Well that's useful, thanks. I'll disconnect it and see what happens.

If in

I use this track quite a lot when testing set ups and also in demos. It sound great and is quite revealing at the same time especially if you play it as loud as you dare.

Love the whole album as well. Great bass player.

Interesting choice if you believe that dynamic range of an album is an issue.
Perhaps you don't.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/156448

 

[Ciggavelli]

Guess I’m lucky. Open box and used, got combo under $10k and still have warranties on both. $40 on Blue Jean bnc cables, $100 on Poweradd. The rest is stock. If I include my streamer I’m still under $11k.

Oh, I didn't pay retail either (but I did pay more than you) . I put the stock prices for reference. I'm sure I could get a discount on any piece of equipment from my dealer. And for those of you who don't have a good dealer, I recommend finding one asap...

 

[Mircea C.]

I'm reporting back after a few days of using the Lumin U1 Mini with the Dave.

The setup was simply U1 Mini > [USB] Chord Dave > Focal Utopia, more details at the bottom for the gear-heads like me.
I compared this to the sound using my PC to stream music to the Dave via Optical (my favorite so far with Dave). To be honest I didn’t have big expectations considering the claimed “immunity” of Dave to jitter and, to some extent, to RF noise.

So I started the listening session with some electronic music (Rone's "Mirapolis") and at first I thought “mmmh, ok, no difference really”, but wait… that bass with the U1 is so much fuller and defined. Ok, good, let’s try something with more instruments in it.
With classic rock (The Rolling Stones "Blue & Lonesome" and Rory Gallagher's "Top Priority remastered 2017") the hints of a more realistic sound continued: snappier bass, increased soundstage depth, definitely more realistic instrument reproduction.
But it’s with live music, especially with piano and guitar, that the U1 Mini really blew the PC out of the water.
In Band of Horses’ “Acoustic at the Ryman”, with the Lumin each piano note felt richer, you could really tell there was “more music” in them, if that makes sense to you. I guess it might have something to do with a better transient reproduction or a lower noise floor? Experts please be merciful if I am not using the right words.

The U1 Mini also improved the feeling of space, I guess I can call it it a better soundstage depth, as opposed to a flatter presentation of the PC.
Final result? More realism, no doubt. I found myself tapping with my hands on the desk more often, and this is a good sign!

I am really enjoying this change to my setup. Is it worth almost 2k$? That is very subjective but now that I heard it, obviously I can't live without it, so...

The only issue I am having is that for some reasons the Lumin U1 Mini won't work with Dave at 192MHz through optical, while my gaming PC does that without any issues and with a simple Ugreen optical cable.
I purchased a Lifatec 3ft glass toslink cable just to see if that was the problem but it didn't make any difference. There you have it, another 150$ out of the window...

Other gear details:
Roon Core: NUC 10 i7 running as ROCK, with two SSDs (1 for OS, 1 for music storage)
The U1 Mini gets the Ethernet signal from a Netgear GS108 switch, powered by an iFi iPower 12V.
Cables: stock power cable for Dave, Audioquest NRG X3 3ft for the U1 Mini, Norne Audio Draug Silver 5ft for the headphones, QED Reference USB 1m.
All the power chords are connected to 3 x Opera Audio Consonance PW-1 Mains Filters, with the Dave and Lumin feeding from unfiltered plugs.

Thanks for sharing! What were the differences between Lumin optical vs Lumin USB into Dave and between optical from PC and optical from Lumen into Dave? Cheers!

 

[adrianm]

Hmm, somethings not right. I really only adjust a few dBs to make up for mscaler. When I did the 3 like recommended it sounded about same volume. You sure hooking everything up from mscaler to Dave correctly. The left and right bnc can be confusing and some incorrect info out there about the output from mscaler. You’re seeing the D Bnc show up on Dave? Not sure if it was reverse would show.

Well I just tried to reverse the bnc cable and made no difference. Left and right sounds stayed the same. Thought I read on Dave you have to get cables right vs the TT2 didn’t matter. Maybe there was minor update to the Dave. Believe mine’s a 2019.

Well it's about 3 db to volume match but it just felt like i could listen at a much lower volume on solo Dave and still get all the detail, even more. I am seeing the DBNC, tried all possible combinations. If you don't get them right you don't get 700 khz, maxes out at 350. It was made like 3 months ago.

 

[adrianm]

Oh, I didn't pay retail either (but I did pay more than you) . I put the stock prices for reference. I'm sure I could get a discount on any piece of equipment from my dealer. And for those of you who don't have a good dealer, I recommend finding one asap...

Same here, but there's also 19% vat here to consider, all in all there's 20% discounts to be had on DCS as well and even more on Dave.

 

[iamoneagain]

Well it's about 3 db to volume match but it just felt like i could listen at a much lower volume on solo Dave and still get all the detail, even more. I am seeing the DBNC, tried all possible combinations. If you don't get them right you don't get 700 khz, maxes out at 350. It was made like 3 months ago.

So if you switch cables around you lose the dual bnc connection? Mine worked either way.

I’m just shocked there would be that much difference in the volume you play it at. The Utopia’s are already so dynamic I couldn’t imagine going much higher.

 

[Ciggavelli]

So if you switch cables around you lose the dual bnc connection? Mine worked either way.

I’m just shocked their be that much difference in the volume you play it at. The Utopia’s are already so dynamic I couldn’t imagine going much higher.

When I had the Utopias, they sounded so much better the louder you went. It got to the point where I only really liked the Utopias when they were played loudly. I would listen for a couple of hours and my ears would ring afterward. I thought I was going to get hearing damage, and that is one of the reasons I sold them. My current headphones sound good at normal volumes, and no more ringing in my ears.

So, I guess I’m just warning you to not go down the same path

 

[iamoneagain]

When I had the Utopias, they sounded so much better the louder you went. It got to the point where I only really liked the Utopias when they were played loudly. I would listen for a couple of hours and my ears would ring afterward. I thought I was going to get hearing damage, and that is one of the reasons I sold them. My current headphones sound good at normal volumes, and no more ringing in my ears.

So, I guess I’m just warning you to not go down the same path

I already have ringing from too many loud concerts in my youth. Always right up front by the stage near the speakers for most of the small shows I saw. A lot of loud punk stuff so that didn’t help either. At the end of show leaving the club I could hardly hear my friends. Surprised I’m able to tell any difference with all this high end stuff now. Other than ringing don’t think I have any hearing loss.

I have no plans to crank up the volume at home. When I attended headphone meets in the past I was shocked at how loud some people listened at. Using same headphones and same equipment, I think my ears would bleed at the level they were just listening at.

 

[Triode User]

Interesting choice if you believe that dynamic range of an album is an issue.
Perhaps you don't.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/156448

Haha you will miss some great music if you just listen to stuff with high scores on that site. Might as well go the whole hog and select your dac from an ASR chart as well!

 

[adrianm]

So if you switch cables around you lose the dual bnc connection? Mine worked either way.

I’m just shocked there would be that much difference in the volume you play it at. The Utopia’s are already so dynamic I couldn’t imagine going much higher.

Yeah if they're reversed no more DBNC, it only goes up to 350 khz. Well with the m-scaler it i kept feeling the need to turn it down, as it was fatiguing.

 

[adrianm]

When I had the Utopias, they sounded so much better the louder you went. It got to the point where I only really liked the Utopias when they were played loudly. I would listen for a couple of hours and my ears would ring afterward. I thought I was going to get hearing damage, and that is one of the reasons I sold them. My current headphones sound good at normal volumes, and no more ringing in my ears.

So, I guess I’m just warning you to not go down the same path

That's good to know, i guess i'll consider the Empyreans and HE1000Se instead, though this is why i prefer closed backs, as i tend to listen at relatively low volume. The Arya was kind of a bust for me in detail retrieval and most areas.