CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Oct 20, 2020 at 4:14 AM Post #15,946 of 25,755
If in
Interesting choice if you believe that dynamic range of an album is an issue.
Perhaps you don't.

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/156448
Haha you will miss some great music if you just listen to stuff with high scores on that site. Might as well go the whole hog and select your dac from an ASR chart as well! :smile::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Did I say that my musical tatstes are based on dynamic range scores ?. My point, which you seem to have missed is that it is a strange choice to use a masively compressed mastering as a demo track,. Not sure how many black backgrounds you can hear on that track. There again over compressed music can sound intitially impressive in a room full of people purely because it is so loud. Not sure what my choice of DAC has to do with my post but having read the excellent recent posts by Edwardsean I will not bite back. I would say, however, he was not quite correct in saying than nobody makes any money out of posting on this forum was he ?
 
Oct 20, 2020 at 4:23 AM Post #15,947 of 25,755
I would say, however, he was not quite correct in saying than nobody makes any money out of posting on this forum was he ?
Yeah i was going to reply to that i've dropped it like a hot potato since the last time i did admins immediately deleted my posts. Nothing against Nick and his cables which i do understand now ,as there seems to be a need for ferrites with the m-scaler, but a quick glance at the sponsor list (everyone) would show the true purpose of the forum.
My point, which you seem to have missed is that it is a strange choice to use a masively compressed mastering as a demo track,. Not sure how many black backgrounds you can hear on that track.
I do have to agree with this
 
Oct 20, 2020 at 7:23 AM Post #15,948 of 25,755
Test the mscaler not with pass thru but with the dac playing unconnected to the mscaler. It helps i find with mTT2 and mH2. Gives a more honest feel to what's really going on here and the positive attributes of the mscaler really shine through.
 
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Oct 20, 2020 at 8:53 AM Post #15,949 of 25,755
Well i've tested it at my dealer with the Utopia and He1000se as well, with a Naim nd5 xs2 via bnc and some aftermarket bnc cables.
I hate it with them even more than with my Z1R, it makes them even brighter and i can't detect any improvement besides a bit wider soundstage and a slightly smoother tonality which sounds unnatural to me.
The Utopias do benefit from it as it has a pretty small soundstage but overall i didn't find it better than the Z1R, very similar actually, just less bass. I think it's a lot better than the Stellias though.
The HE1000se was clearly in another league, a lot faster than both but pretty bright and worse still (to my ears than the ) with the m-scaler.
I preferred all 3 connected to solo Dave, there's no saving the m-scaler for me.
Has anyone used a Naim nd5 xs2 as a streamer via bnc (only option apparently) with Dave?
 
Oct 20, 2020 at 8:54 AM Post #15,950 of 25,755
Depends on the album but anywhere from lower -20s to about -30 with mscaler. Might be older album that need to go to -18 at the highest. The Marcus Miller one listening at -21. Making my way thru that album with mscaler is much more immersive. Not my usual genre but sound quality is amazing.
I couldn't really go louder than -38 with the Utopias on most stuff on TIdal, maybe it's easier to spot the differences at that volume.
 
Oct 20, 2020 at 10:44 AM Post #15,951 of 25,755
I couldn't really go louder than -38 with the Utopias on most stuff on TIdal, maybe it's easier to spot the differences at that volume.

Trying -38 (w mscaler)with that Trip Trap song with Tidal thru roon. It’s listenable but pretty quiet. This would be if almost listening in the background. So either you listen really quiet, Tidal directly is louder, or my ears are shot. At this level I wouldn’t be wasting money trying to get more out my system when a simple volume adjustment would fix it.
 
Oct 20, 2020 at 10:51 AM Post #15,952 of 25,755
Trying -38 (w mscaler)with that Trip Trap song with Tidal thru roon. It’s listenable but pretty quiet. This would be if almost listening in the background. So either you listen really quiet, Tidal directly is louder, or my ears are shot. At this level I wouldn’t be wasting money trying to get more out my system when a simple volume adjustment would fix it.
https://tidal.com/browse/track/89386270 this one? Solo Dave i find -45 the loudest i can go without it being annoying. The utopias are open backed so there's no isolation, maybe that accounts for some of the difference. I listened at similar volumes with the Utopias in the quiet room ,though not this song.
 
Oct 20, 2020 at 10:54 AM Post #15,953 of 25,755
As a side note, though i would've called snake oil , i think part of the reason the m-scaler sounded so bad on optical was because the cable was crap and apparently optical cables don't all sound the same. I left with this to try at home and i'm DEFINITELY keeping it :

8FB0B40C-3E07-4CF6-80C8-7CD592BB908A.jpeg
 
Oct 20, 2020 at 11:11 AM Post #15,954 of 25,755
https://tidal.com/browse/track/89386270 this one? Solo Dave i find -45 the loudest i can go without it being annoying. The utopias are open backed so there's no isolation, maybe that accounts for some of the difference. I listened at similar volumes with the Utopias in the quiet room ,though not this song.

Can you name the track or screenshot it. Link doesn’t work for me. I’m in the U.S.

Also in the past it seemed you couldn’t hear differences in your output and thought streamer were a waste a money. As you can see different cables and sources make a difference. Funny thing with usb cables in the past is the cheaper ones end better than my $100 cable. That’s why haven’t bothered to try anything other than stock cable.
 
Oct 20, 2020 at 11:39 AM Post #15,955 of 25,755
Can you name the track or screenshot it. Link doesn’t work for me. I’m in the U.S.

Also in the past it seemed you couldn’t hear differences in your output and thought streamer were a waste a money. As you can see different cables and sources make a difference. Funny thing with usb cables in the past is the cheaper ones end better than my $100 cable. That’s why haven’t bothered to try anything other than stock cable.
No, i said i tested Dave before i bought it with a Node2i(300 euros) vs a Naim ND555 with psu (30k+) and the Naim did sound slightly better but it was USB vs coax on the Node. so that could've been part of the reason. Even if it wasn't, the bang for buck aspect was laughable, same with cables as well.
I've also tested an Auralic Vega G1 streaming to itself vs my macbook pro streaming to it via usb and it sounded literally exactly the same. Tried for 45 minutes to find a difference.
So i'm as skeptical as could be. I'm willing to be proven wrong though, which is why i would consider testing others.

My chord c-line sounded noticeably better than a 5$ one with my older sony dac. I think that there's a minimum standard to be met and the cheap ones don't. Not that expensive frozen cables have some super advanced science that can't be explained. At one point confirmation bias kicks in and if you spend 2k on a usb cable because Johny Darko and the forum said it sounds better, you're going in expecting to hear that. I go in expecting everything is snake oil so unless it blows me away from the first 10 seconds i attribute it to either confirmation bias, or too small of a difference to spend the money. Except the m-scaler, i tried to like it for 3 days.
I'm not saying i know exactly where the point of maximum gain is, probably higher than i expect. But the fact that there are 60-70% discounts on super expensive cables says something.
I'm also not saying i have anything against expensive cables, if i had a 50k system i'd spend maybe even up to 5k on cables just because they look nicer, 0 improvement required, more if they actually do .
Like i said with watches, it's jewelry, i'm fine with that. It serves a purpose, but i don't like kidding myself about what that is, or others.
This optical cable actually does sound a lot better than the 10 euro one, and i'm sure the m-scaler would've sounded...less bad with it. Everything sounds.. clearer for lack of a better word. And the image a is less fuzzy, sharper.
 
Oct 20, 2020 at 12:49 PM Post #15,959 of 25,755
i don't like kidding myself about what that is, or others.

We're with you. This is all I mean when I ask you to please stop accusing others, and assuming you are the only honest person here.

My assumption is that very, very few people here can toss off a few thousand dollars and not feel it. I go into these purchases half hoping it will sound better, half hoping it won't. I feel fortunate to have enough money for audio. I have no budget left over for gilded self-deception. The only thing I like less than wasting my own money is wasting someone else's.

On a different note:
"Trip Trap" is a fantastic track. Thanks to everyone who recommended it! I'm a guitarist myself but I have a soft spot for bassists from Jaco to John Myung. Marcus Miller's talent... the stuff of legends.
 
Oct 20, 2020 at 12:55 PM Post #15,960 of 25,755
We're with you. This is all I mean when I ask you to please stop accusing others, and assuming you are the only honest person here.

My assumption is that very, very few people here can toss off a few thousand dollars and not feel it. I go into these purchases half hoping it will sound better, half hoping it won't. I feel fortunate to have enough money for audio. I have no budget left over for gilded self-deception. The only thing I like less than wasting my own money is wasting someone else's.

On a different note:
"Trip Trap" is a fantastic track. Thanks to everyone who recommended it! I'm a guitarist myself but I have a soft spot for bassists from Jaco to John Myung. Marcus Miller's talent... the stuff of legends.
Will try, i've just...seen some stuff since i've been on Hf. I didn't just mean this thread.
With the M-scaler listening to it was supposed to be just a formality, i was just taken aback when i did. At least i know it's not for me. I do recommend that anyone using it via optical try that QED reference cable since it seems to me to amplify the jitter that was already there.
 

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