[paul79]

I will also say that the new CODEX from Ayre showed the 2Qute a clean pair of heels here at my place with PCM playback. It wasn't even close really, and I gained allot of respect for the CODEX in my comparisons. Albeit, it is small also, and does not have the dynamic contrasting and bass slam of the bigger DAC's I have. It still did better than the Chord 2Qute though, in this regard.
 
What differences? The Chord 2Qute sounded clouded in comparison to the CODEX's absolute clarity and speed, and was equally if not more smooth in its presentation.

 

[Beolab]

bigfat, I hear you.... This site in particular, is very quick to tout something as the best ever. Just look at any DAC mentioned on here.

Not saying the Mojo ain't the mojo, but I can't fathom something so small offering up tremendous bass slam and dynamic contrasting. That takes on board capacitance to achieve, and this Mojo is not big enough to have this. Unless there is some very tricky power supply stuff going on with it, I have my doubts about its dynamic capabilities, which are very important to me.

So I ask you guys, using this Mojo in a 2 ch speaker setup, does this indeed have the dynamics and bass slam of the bigger DAC's? IME, it really can't....

Yes it have, its not a AMP it is a DAC with 3v output like evey other high end dac, with the same capability as every other 20 kg dac's who deliver great dynamic bass with impact.

Its among the best i have heard.

 

[Pokemonn]

please read rob's post #12803
 

  No power amp or pre-amp "likes" a full bandwidth signal - not if that signal has out of band noise. Out of band noise (RF noise) makes the SQ brighter as it induces noise floor modulation - the noise pumps up and down with the wanted music signal. The brain detects this noise, and can't separate it from the wanted signal, and as noise sounds bright (hiss) it adds an edge to the perceived timbre of the instrument.
 
The technical reason why its important is down to the fact that audio electronics (whatever flavour) is non-linear at RF frequencies, and random RF noise inter-modulates with the wanted music signal, creating inter-modulation products that is within the audio bandwidth - hence noise that pumps up and down with the wanted signal. I have measured this problem countless times, so its a very real problem.
 
The brain is extremely sensitive to this issue - and when you remove noise floor modulation, it sounds a lot smoother and darker, with better instrument separation and focus. But it's easy to perceive the sound as less impressive; indeed I have seen many amp companies extolling the virtues of higher bandwidth - and its nothing to do with people hearing above 20 kHz - its just that if you do not bandwidth limit, you let in more RF noise, and this creates more noise floor modulation which then makes it sound brighter. When you hear noise floor modulation its easy to confuse it with better detail resolution, as it sounds brighter and etched - it's one reason why one has to be incredibly careful when doing listening tests, as its easy to perceive distortion as being better SQ. But of course, a bright and forced sound quality lacks musicality, and you will find it tires very easily - its one big source of listening fatigue.
 
So all of my DAC's are bandwidth limited to 50 or 60 kHz, as a DAC is a wonderful source of random RF noise. One of the very unusual things about my DAC's (from Mojo to Dave) is they do not have any measurable noise floor modulation, and I had to go to crazy lengths to do this from digital. But there is no point in having a DAC with no noise floor modulation if later on in the chain it has it due to the DAC's RF noise output, so hence the importance of bandwidth limiting.
 
A comment was raised about the HF filter with Dave; now that filter was designed to stop ADC noise shaper noise from DXD sources from creating noise floor modulation within Dave - not to stop that noise from corrupting the pre or power amp, as Dave's analogue filter will do this too.
 
So no need to worry about out of band noise.
 
Rob

 

[isquirrel]

When even Simon finds out that Mahler sounds almost as good on the Mojo as on his $200.000 MSB / Woo rig, then i get philosophical almost, and think that it most be just someone hide somewhere and play with us ??

 
Better clear this up, I did not say that the Mojo sounds almost as good as the MSB Select, for that matter my MSB Select does not ship until the 10th Feb so I would't know. Fact is the Mojo sounds very god for such an incredibly small package. Clearly it is an engineering achievement of considerable note.
 
More findings:
 
I have now tried the Mojo with a variety of sources, there is no doubt that Optical in via the Aurender is by far the best, the worst performing (so far) is the iPhone with CCK/USB. The usual disclaimers apply:
 
On my equipment, on this day using all the associated headphones, cables and connectors and source material, at this temperature etc etc

 

[highfell]

If i just had a couple of % from each sold Remedy from W4s, then this could have bin a nice extra income! , because after a little listening, and this is only a short listening i can distinguish that the sound get richer, and smoother almost like the sound gets slower because you hear every single tone with more blackness around it. More solid / fluid / analog and Magical is the best words. You think that the product that reproduce this sound most at least weigh 20kg and not 80 grams

Two tracks you can here this clearly with is Boz Scaggs "Thanks to you" and
Brian Bromberg: "My Bass" . Everything get more fluid and all veil and small high pitched brightness noise disappear in a elegant way.


The Mojo sounds better than the Hugo, but this is something else, and will come back with an more in dept impression later on.

So I really want to believe you , because it's not a huge upgrade cost and the thought of having an even better sound quality for my Hugo and Mojo is very appealing.

And it's really intriguing because Rob says no need to control jitter Plus DONT upscale the bits and the Remedy does both. I do believe that you believe your hear a better sound, and that is what actually matters

I did email Wired 4 Sound, so I have a dealer in the UK - maybe they would let me have it on sale or return. I feel an email coming on -


PS - I feel that the Hugo has the edge on the Mojo , a bit cleaner and more euphoric sounding , especially into a stereo speakers, but there isn't a lot between them. The mojo is certainly warmer sounding.

 

[JaZZ]

...I feel that the Hugo has the edge on the Mojo, a bit cleaner and more euphoric sounding, especially into stereo speakers, but there isn't a lot between them. The Mojo is certainly warmer sounding.

 
I agree. Warmer, but not smoother, unfortunately (actually not quite as smooth) – to my ears.
 
My personal ranking:
 
1. DAVE
2. Hugo
3. Mojo
 
However, the Mojo has some magic and intimacy which is quite intriguing sometimes, but to me it also comes accross as coloration, rather than lifelikeness. Strong, controlled and well-textured bass is one of its strengths, especially considering price and size.

 

[Skampmeister]

IMO, the Remedy Reclocker is adding the the sound making it sound different, not better. But that is a good thing and a bad thing, depending on what sound you like.

 

[Beolab]

So I really want to believe you , because it's not a huge upgrade cost and the thought of having an even better sound quality for my Hugo and Mojo is very appealing.

And it's really intriguing because Rob says no need to control jitter Plus DONT upscale the bits and the Remedy does both. I do believe that you believe your hear a better sound, and that is what actually matters

I did email Wired 4 Sound, so I have a dealer in the UK - maybe they would let me have it on sale or return. I feel an email coming on -


PS - I feel that the Hugo has the edge on the Mojo , a bit cleaner and more euphoric sounding , especially into a stereo speakers, but there isn't a lot between them. The mojo is certainly warmer sounding.

OT:

You are perfectly correct with you findings btw Mojo and Hugo, i agree with you!

E-mail Item Audio UK
sales@itemaudio.co.uk

And my contact person is Mark at Item, a very nice guy to deal with, and he let you borrow almost wathever you want and just send it back if your not satisfayed with it.

Give it a try.

( On thing is that i use Li-ion battery power for the remedy. You get a slight warmer and less transparent sound with a ordinary switching charger. )

Back to topic

 

[Beolab]

IMO, the Remedy Reclocker is adding the the sound making it sound different, not better. But that is a good thing and a bad thing, depending on what sound you like.

It is clearly sounding better no question about it. I find it take away the little veil edgy analytical character of Hugo and give you more blacked out 3D dept to it , and in the same time it is smoother while it perceives the fin detail, but the detail get richer is my findings.

This is what i should have flagged for in the next Hugo 2, not any more analytical sounding, and this follows with listening fatigue, and thats why many find the Mojo as the supreme one in the long run.

 

[Beolab]

Better clear this up, I did not say that the Mojo sounds almost as good as the MSB Select, for that matter my MSB Select does not ship until the 10th Feb so I would't know. Fact is the Mojo sounds very god for such an incredibly small package. Clearly it is an engineering achievement of considerable note.

More findings:

I have now tried the Mojo with a variety of sources, there is no doubt that Optical in via the Aurender is by far the best, the worst performing (so far) is the iPhone with CCK/USB. The usual disclaimers apply:

On my equipment, on this day using all the associated headphones, cables and connectors and source material, at this temperature etc etc

I was just joking a little, but was sincerely with my point of the greatness that such a small product can give that $$$$ dollar sound, and the boundaries are closing in on the top dollar DACś.

 

[isquirrel]

I was just joking a little, but was sincerely with my point of the greatness that such a small product can give that $$$$ dollar sound, and the boundaries are closing in on the top dollar DACś.

I don't buy into it, its these sorts of comments that keep me away from expressing thoughts about any equipment on line.

 

[Beolab]

Okey im sorry for that, but you don't see that the "evolution" moving the boundaries closer to the top $$$ dollar DAC's every year?
Im also sorry for being sarcastic about it because you have spend a huge amount on your rig, but i thaught you could take a small joke, and just laph about it, because you know what you have and how good it sounds, so no need to prove anything or take it personally i hope.

Then i don't see realy in reality what is wrong with that sort of comment when everyone knows at this moment in life ( i sincerely hope?) that it will cost a huge amount of money to achieve the last 10-20% of refinement to reach the top end, its almost a law.

Its the same with other things like cars for example, a Bugatti Veyron do 320km/h with only using 300 hp, but needs 700 extra horsepower to reach 400km/h and the last 80 km/h because of the physic laws in that case, but it is a slight diffrent with DAC technology yes, but just a parralel to how it can appere that it is just a small diffrence up to the top speed or the top sound, but in reality it is a hard achivment to reach it.

You are a great benefit for our forum, and i hope you dont stop wrighting reviews of your findings and impressions i was like you just eager to say something about the good sound of the Mojo.

sorry mate

 

[isquirrel]

[quote name="Beolab" url="/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/1500#post_12279405

sorry mate[/quote]

No problem and no offense taken my friend. The issue is that the manufacturers do read these threads as it gives them an up to date idea of what customers are thinking/doing and how their product is being used and what end users think who are very different from the press as their is no Editor worried about upsetting an on going relationship with a manufacturer/advertiser. Before you know it someone will have used a quote like that & plastered it all over the web. I try hard now never to directly compare one manufacturers component with another. Someone ends up getting upset.

IMHO what Chord are doing is raising the goal posts for the industry, contributions that will be felt for many years. Just taking that into account and they get a round of applause from me. I have long given up on relying on anything that I read because this hobby of ours is so personal. It is difficult for many 1st time buyers as they don't have the many years of experience that some people on this forum do, so even if they can audition a DAVE they still rely heavily on peer group support. It's our responsibility to make sure we give accurate feedback.

The only ultra high end DAC I have spent time with and have publicly said it was a real shock to listen to was the full four box dCS stack as I would hate to see someone spend all that money and find out the hard way. For me it was nearly a case similar to "have you seen the Emprorers new clothes" I am dumbfounded that the big magazines still rave about it. I will say this, IMHO the Mojo is far superior.

I am beginning to get a feel as to what Chord are doing. Once the DAVE arrives it will help complete the picture.

I will PM you about your Analog DAC.

 

[romaz]

  Here’s where I have issue.  I don’t know of a single product in any industry that is the undisputed absolute BEST. 

Paul, if you've not yet had a chance to experience the DAVE or Mojo, you should be skeptical.  Some of these claims being made without question border on the absurd and even fanatical but that is to be expected with any appreciation thread here on Head-Fi.  We are, as audiophiles, after all very passionate as a group and so such superlatives as "best ever" are not unusual statements made here and on other forums.  I'm sure we each have uttered those words about some piece of gear at one point or another but as Beolab has stated, these statements should be taken with a grain of salt.  As so commonly said, YMMV.
 
As you stated, with Tyll's Big Sound 2015, some very big names could not blind test the difference between a Schiit Yggy and an Antelope DAC and so there are many on Head-Fi that are probably already skeptical of many claims regarding the DAVE or Mojo.  However, those of us who have been in this hobby long enough and have made our own comparisons, even blinded, know how much better certain DACs are over another and what an impact it can have in a digital system and as an ownder of a Bricasti M1, I'm pretty sure you're part of the group that believes this.
 
For me, I had my own doubts about the DAVE, let alone the Mojo.  For a summit-fi DAC that is just now being widely released, to have nearly 1,500 posts already on Head-Fi is quite unusual if not unprecedented.  It's a hype train similar to what I witnessed with the USB Regen when it first came out but the difference is the USB Regen sells for $175 while the DAVE sells for $13k which is what makes this hype train all the more remarkable.  I actually bought a USB Regen based on all the hype without having first experienced one and while it does make a small difference in my system, at no time did my jaw drop or tears start to stream from my face as some have described.  And so you can imagine my skepticism about the DAVE, especially as I was already a very content owner of a TotalDac d1-monobloc, a DAC I had regarded as the best headphone DAC in the world.
 
Regarding Chord products, I am fairly new to the fold.  Having had a Hugo at my disposal for a full summer, I found myself not reaching for it very often as I never found it that engaging compared to my Bricasti M1 or as convenient as my portable Sony ZX2.  I was part of the group that considered this DAC more hype than substance and so in no way would I consider myself a Chord fanboy or devotee.  It also didn't help that there were so many arrogant statements being made about this DAC.  As you stated, when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.  At the same time, where there's smoke, there's usually fire and there sure is a lot of smoke being made about the DAVE.  Enough that you need to experience it for yourself so you can judge it for yourself. 
 
I've tested a lot of gear this past year and having owned or spent quality time with a lot of DACs including a W4S DAC 2 DSD SE, Auralic Vega, Schiit Yggy, PS Audio DirectStream, Hugo, MSB Analog, Bricasti M1 and TotalDac d1-single/dual/monobloc, I feel comfortable in knowing what I am looking for for myself.  My philosophy is that if it takes days or even hours to hear the difference, there isn't enough difference there.  Usually, I know within minutes or within a few tracks and that is what happened with the Bricasti M1 and the TotalDACs.  The differences were stark and these are DACs you could blind test with.  It hasn't happened with any other DAC again...until the DAVE.  But just because this has been my experience or someone else's experience doesn't mean it will be your experience. 
 
I think you should forget the talk about lack of noise floor modulation, galvanic isolation, etc.  They'll be important later when you try to explain to yourself what you are hearing.  I think the only value of all of these comments is that the DAVE (and Mojo) are worth a personal audition.

 

[lovethatsound]

+1 romaz
The best thing to do is to home demo and let your own ears tell you