[flyte3333]

There are audiophiles on this thread that assume too much and have already made up their minds about how something will sound based on preconceived notions. You have to listen.

Amen to that.

Edit: you already got another amen I see. You can never have too many.

 

[romaz]

Hi Everyone. I know this has been discussed before, but I thought I'd plumb the collective wisdom of this group once more in my quest to further improve my system. Like everyone I couldn't be happier with the effects that Blu2 introduced when I installed it in my system last week. The last 7 days has been quite the experience listening to music, mouth agape, and eyes wide open.

My next challenge will involve cleaning up the USB signal that get's sent to Blu2 between my Windows 10 music server which I'm using as both a Roon Core and End-point. I contemplated upgrading to a Zenith SE but I hesitated as I need to be able to utilise Windows so I can listen to mixes via Soundcloud (I know, it's lossy, but hey)

After reading, and re-reading countless threads on here and CA it appears that the two solutions I'm leaning towards include (with positive's and deltas noted below):

Mutec MC3+USB + Ref 10 Masterclock + LPS1 (for the MC3+)
+ The MC3+USB has galvanic isolation after their USB input
+ The MC3+USB would partner well with the Ref 10 as they are designed by the same company
- The MC3+ has a variety of input's I won't use as I'm entirely focussed on improving the USB signal of my Windows PC

Sotm txUSBUltra + SMSP500/Iso-Regen + LPS1 with Ref 10 Masterclock
+ Both the Sotm + Uptone solutions focus entirely on the USB solution which is the only input into the Blu2 I'm focussing on
+ Further to the above, the Iso-Regen (from what I understand) has isolation before AND after the USB chip. I also already own a LPS-1 which would negate the need for me to spend money on the SMPS-500
+ Sotm have a distributor in Australia
- The ISO-Regen doesn't have clock-output so I would lose the benefit of incorporating the Ref 10 into my system which from what I understand from either @romaz or @austinpop brings improvement to Blu2.

With all of this in mind, I'm looking at going ahead with the txUsbUltra + SMSP500 + Reference 10 as the next improvement to my current system make-up (noted in my sig). Can anyone see any issues with my logic?

Thanks in advance,
GS

I bought the MC-3+USB and directly compared it against the tX-USBultra with my BluDAVE. Without the REF10, for my tastes, the tX-USBultra is easily better than the MC-3+USB. With the REF10, both endpoints improve but the MC-3+USB improves to a much greater degree although even with the REF10, I still prefer the tX-USBultra because it sounds dimensionally fuller. There is also a harshness with the MC-3+USB that is not present in the tX-USBultra and it may be due to the MC-3+USB's power supply.

Should you decide to move forward with the tX-USBultra, at its full asking price, I would question the value of the REF10. Personally, I would put that money into better BNC cables between Blu2 and DAVE as I believe there is more to be gained there.

 

[etnt]

Despite my preferences, I think there are many who could be completely happy with a simple laptop as a source as well as the stock USB and mains cable that come with DAVE and to this extent, Rob has succeeded in his design goal. In fact, I would choose DAVE or Hugo2 with stock cabling and fronted by a cheap laptop beyond any other non-Chord DAC setup because in a digital setup, I still firmly believe it starts at the DAC and if resolution and transparency are your goals, there's no DAC setup that can do it better than a BluDAVE. As Rob has stated, there's simply no way to achieve 16-bits of accuracy without "doing the maths" and no other DAC setup even attempts to do the math. The bottom line is that BluDAVE by itself gets you pretty much there and a well executed server and cabling is merely icing on the cake.

I know there are people who read this thread and are dismayed by the extremes that people like me go to but I believe "tweaking" is in the blood of the typical audiophile. If someone is going to buy something like a BluDAVE, why not optimize the rest of your chain so that BluDAVE can show you what it can really do? As to how far you should take things, I believe you go as far as your budget will allow up until you hear no further improvements. At least, that's how I look at it.

I feel that many are forgetting this and are already investing in ferrites and cables and whatsnot even before they gotten hold of the Blu.

There's nothing wrong with tweaking, but one should take some time to listen to the BluDave at stock and marvel.

 

[Beolab]

Thanks, Jawed. I've fixed the problem.



Well articulated and very helpful. Thanks again.

Funny thing is that i get the darkest sound by the SPDIF Coax input on DAVE alone, darker than USB and Optical or AES/EBU inputs.

So if we go by that rule, then the SPDIF input got the lowest RF value.

I get higher resolution on the rest of the inputs than on the SPDIF, where i hear details with greater separation and more clearly, so it may be an added fake RF detail we are hearing.

Interesting

 

[Jawed]

I worked for an engineering manager years ago who had previously worked on video he said when they did their testing most people preferred the Video that they had added small amounts of noise to! Perhaps our senses are conditioned to like noise and distortions? I guess we should verify listening with corroborating measurements.

Noise in motion footage makes it look sharper. Sometimes you get 720p footage masquerading as 1080p, for example, and noise is added to "cover this up".

But the noise is clearly visible.

The distortions that RF adds are not so clear because they seem to be the music, not noise per se. The RF is causing secondary effects in the analogue circuitry, it's not heard as noise. Though some of these secondary effects are noise-like (e.g. graininess in voices).

---

You have all this amazing accuracy all the way from Blu 2's upsampling, then the output into DAVE and through DAVE's FPGA upto 2048FS sample rate and a noise shaper with 350dB resolution. And right at the last moment, when that fantastically constructed digital data is delicately transformed into analogue, you're bathing that circuitry in RF crud and wasting a huge portion of that amazing machine you have bought.

Rob's aiming for utter transparency to the analogue signal that was sampled and you can't get that while RF is significantly affecting DAVE's analogue output circuitry.

Now playing: Anouar Brahem, John Surman, Dave Holland - Urs

 

[austinpop]

I have purposely avoided talking about clocking on this thread because it's just not the right thread for it.

My apologies - I think I may have broached the topic here, mistaking this for the other "server" thread.

<Backs away slowly, making no sudden moves...>

 

[marcmccalmont]

Noise in motion footage makes it look sharper. Sometimes you get 720p footage masquerading as 1080p, for example, and noise is added to "cover this up".

But the noise is clearly visible.

The distortions that RF adds are not so clear because they seem to be the music, not noise per se. The RF is causing secondary effects in the analogue circuitry, it's not heard as noise. Though some of these secondary effects are noise-like (e.g. graininess in voices).

---

You have all this amazing accuracy all the way from Blu 2's upsampling, then the output into DAVE and through DAVE's FPGA upto 2048FS sample rate and a noise shaper with 350dB resolution. And right at the last moment, when that fantastically constructed digital data is delicately transformed into analogue, you're bathing that circuitry in RF crud and wasting a huge portion of that amazing machine you have bought.

Rob's aiming for utter transparency to the analogue signal that was sampled and you can't get that while RF is significantly affecting DAVE's analogue output circuitry.

Now playing: Anouar Brahem, John Surman, Dave Holland - Urs

What’s the solution? Build a “screened room” turn off your tv, WiFi, remove all wall warts, mumetal shields, regenerate your ac? We do have gross errors after the amplification to work on also, passive filter components, dynamic drivers, room acoustics!

 

[galacticsoap]

Thank you everyone. I'll source a tx-USBultra in the first instance without investing in a clock. Will let you know things come along.

 

[Malcyg]

I feel that many are forgetting this and are already investing in ferrites and cables and whatsnot even before they gotten hold of the Blu.

There's nothing wrong with tweaking, but one should take some time to listen to the BluDave at stock and marvel.

I couldn’t agree more with the second point. And listen for a good period of time as well - like several weeks because your ears and brain need time to adjust and take it all in. BluDave is a big deal. You may well need nothing else, but you can’t know without extended listening imo.

Regarding the first point, I hope not but I would reiterate the point that people should not be swayed by what other people say and certainly not purchase things without listening first for oneself, although I know that’s not always easy.

 

[Malcyg]

To put things in proper perspective, I do believe my DAVE and my Hugo2 are much more immune to upstream sources and cables then any DAC I have previously owned and so I don't want to give the impression from my post that owners of Rob's DACs have to go to extraordinary measures for good SQ. Despite my preferences, I think there are many who could be completely happy with a simple laptop as a source as well as the stock USB and mains cable that come with DAVE and to this extent, Rob has succeeded in his design goal. In fact, I would choose DAVE or Hugo2 with stock cabling and fronted by a cheap laptop beyond any other non-Chord DAC setup because in a digital setup, I still firmly believe it starts at the DAC and if resolution and transparency are your goals, there's no DAC setup that can do it better than a BluDAVE. As Rob has stated, there's simply no way to achieve 16-bits of accuracy without "doing the maths" and no other DAC setup even attempts to do the math. The bottom line is that BluDAVE by itself gets you pretty much there and a well executed server and cabling is merely icing on the cake.

I know there are people who read this thread and are dismayed by the extremes that people like me go to but I believe "tweaking" is in the blood of the typical audiophile. If someone is going to buy something like a BluDAVE, why not optimize the rest of your chain so that BluDAVE can show you what it can really do? As to how far you should take things, I believe you go as far as your budget will allow up until you hear no further improvements. At least, that's how I look at it.

With regards to the talk about clocking, I want to reiterate that my findings with clocking have nothing to do with word clocking (or signal timing), it has to do with the elimination of fatiguing noise that bad clocks introduce. My experience has shown me that both DAVE and Hugo2 are indeed immune to jitter. With just about any other DAC, Toslink connections are typically frowned upon because this connection is jitter prone and so Rob's DACs are unique in that they embrace this connection. As I contemplate the ideal server for one of Rob's DACs, I do believe such a server should have an optical connection.

Is there a way of putting this post on a weekly auto repeat?

 

[dac64]

What’s the solution? Build a “screened room” turn off your tv, WiFi, remove all wall warts, mumetal shields, regenerate your ac? We do have gross errors after the amplification to work on also, passive filter components, dynamic drivers, room acoustics!

I once had a pair of speakers in one room, and all the rest of the equipment in the other room, speaker cables run through wall between the two rooms.

It sounded wonderful!

 

[dmance]

off-topic ...to accommodate a renovation, I moved my listening from my audio-only room to my main TV room ...and in the process moved my Nordost QRT products (1xQK1, 2xQV2) to my Panasonic Plasma VT60's power bar. Well, to my total shock, the VT60's picture improved drastically - contrast, details, colors. Everyone in my family noticed and, more importantly, said so without my prompting.

So this was a good double-blind test that proved to me, regardless of the technical reasons, that the benefits of small changes are real - and in this case, its definitely an 'analog' effect (the bits were the same, the modulation of the plasma panel to digital signals improved). So i never-say-never to anything noise or power related making a difference in either picture or sound quality. I look forward to my Qutest and future M-Scaler and taking it to the limit.

 

[Beolab]

Last call for the Group Buy on the
Clearer Audio Silver Line Optimus Reference Coax 75 ohm digital

( Oppertunity for DAVE + Blu II owners )

New Deadline for the group buy is 20/3-2018 and it will not be post phoned.

If we order 5-10 pairs 2x BNC from Clearer Audio ,then Darren will give us 20% in discount at checkout.

( If we buy more than 10 pairs then he can stretch it slightly more, but he said that the margin is not that high because of the already fairly low price, and because of the expensive 6N silver he is using. )

When we have reached 5 or more members who are willing to goahead and purchase
2x CA Silver Reference BNC - BNC, then i will contact Darren at Clearer Audio, and then afterwords each of you can e-mail Darren at enquiries@cleareraudio.com with your User Name and the lenght you need, and your other details to complete the purchase with 20% discount.

Please PM me If you are interested!

Deadline for the group buy is set to:
20/3-2018

Members that has shown interest for a group buy is:

@Beolab Captain
@Clive101 OK
@adyc OK
@STR-1 OK
@yakaway OK
@etnt OK
@hattrick15 OK

 

[Beolab]

I know this can be worse for the resolution etc, but i tested to use ferrite blocks on my headphone cables , and it does some effect, you get less glare and a slight calmer sound in better order.

Have anyone tested this, and what is your oppinions, fun to hear.

 

[ray-dude]

Using the BluDave's CD Player as a reference, I have tested most of these combinations:

To clarify: ur is Sonore ultraRendu; ir is ISO Regen from Uptone Audio; switch is TP-Link TL-SG108E

1. ur only, no iso regen or switch->sounds the closest to BluDave CD player, I would say this is the perfect match.

Thank you @learpot for taking the time to share the results of your investigations, extremely interesting reading and thought provoking!

As a reminder, I have a blue collar Sonore SonicOrbiter SE powered by a iFi power supply running as a Roon Bridge (via vanilla ethernet) into my BluDAVE, using a TrippLite USB cable with 40 Topnisus ferrites (and the 2 built in ferrites). As I have reported previously, I have found that this has gotten me VERY close to the sound I hear from the Blu CD player direct (I can not distinguish between the two with any reliability).

Based on your comments and the comments of others, I ordered a USPCB to play with. The design and USPCB makes a lot of sense to me, and I would be very interested in a cost effective way to tame at least part of the ferrite jungle behind my Blu.

When I moved the SonicOrbiter behind my Blu and plugged it in with the USPCB, things seemed a bit flattened and washed out. Swapping back in my ferrited USB cable of shame, I was back to the wonderful depth and detail I am used to. Going back and forth, I'm hearing similar effects to what I recall with the TrippLite into the Blu before I loaded up on the ferrite train. With the SonicOrbiter SE and the USPCB, I'm nowhere near the Blu CD SQ. From this experiment, I suspect your UltraRendu and LPS1 is carrying a lot of the weight for the performance you're hearing (as one would hope).

My hypothesis has been that if you have a good enough streaming source, and clean the heck out of the USB connection between your source and the Blu, you can paper over most of the upstream digital sins. Fortunately, in my home and setup, that hypothesis has worked out so far. Of course, all systems and sources and noise challenges are different, so very hard to generalize to everyone's situation.

However if you're still experimenting with your setup, it might be interesting to drop in a heavily choked USB cable and see what your experience would be.